Did Buddha consider the Kundalini bad?

[AussieTrees]

Why do we seek kundalini?

[Jetsun]

Why do we seek kundalini?

 

Some believe that if they get the kundalini to move through all the blockages in the body and out the top of the head then they will become enlightened. 

 

Although some people like Ramana Maharshi say that that belief is an error and that kundalni will rise naturally when the source of the 'I' is dissolved.

 

The opening of energy channels does seem to be a part of the process from what I have witnessed and experienced myself, but I don't believe trying to force the channels open through exercises is a healthy way to go about it. As far as I know the majority of Buddhist lineages don't deal with it or discuss it much, for example in Zen if a student had too much energy or energetic issues from practice they would be sent to work in the garden and kitchen for a few years to ground it rather than try to stimulate it further or work with it. The focus is more on the mind and how the mind creates suffering in most Buddhist schools, kundalini work is not seen as a requirement.

[C T]

Why do we seek kundalini?

some use it as an excuse for elevating their otherwise boring existence

[thelerner]

some use it as an excuse for elevating their otherwise boring existence

hey, if it doesn't drive you insane then its better then TV.

[AussieTrees]

Seeking kundalini is striving for power.

 

Bit like drug use in sports,you may gain an unfair advantage.

The athlete using drugs to enhance performance pays a price,not always discussed.

 

In striving to reach kundalini there may also be at some cost.

[C T]

Seeking kundalini is striving for power.

 

Bit like drug use in sports,you may gain an unfair advantage.

The athlete using drugs to enhance performance pays a price,not always discussed.

 

In striving to reach kundalini there may also be at some cost.

Naturally so, Aussie. The cost involved, i mean. 

 

Kundalini evolves centrally around the practice of surrender. Many in the West, as far as this concept of surrender is concerned, have only a kind of perverted understanding of it, and not wanting to appear subservient, nor knowing the intricacies behind this act of renunciation, they turn to dabbling and experimentation, and bang! overload happens, and they run into all sorts of psycho/physical issues. Even in India and all that part of the world, those who study under proper guidance can sometimes experience problems, but i guess the edge Easterners have is that their make-up is fundamentally sound towards the concept of surrendering, and this is where that obvious and pertinent contrast makes a huge difference. 

[rex]

Why do we seek kundalini?

Perhaps kundalini seeks us and it is a birthright?

[Jeff]

Naturally so, Aussie. The cost involved, i mean. 

 

Kundalini evolves centrally around the practice of surrender. Many in the West, as far as this concept of surrender is concerned, have only a kind of perverted understanding of it, and not wanting to appear subservient, nor knowing the intricacies behind this act of renunciation, they turn to dabbling and experimentation, and bang! overload happens, and they run into all sorts of psycho/physical issues. Even in India and all that part of the world, those who study under proper guidance can sometimes experience problems, but i guess the edge Easterners have is that their make-up is fundamentally sound towards the concept of surrendering, and this is where that obvious and pertinent contrast makes a huge difference. 

 

Some words for thought on surrender (and it's effect) in the West...

 

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.”

‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

“In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.”

‭‭John‬ ‭7:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

Flowing rivers of living water remind anyone of anything?

 

Best wishes.

 

[wilfred]

my humble opinion on this kundalini stuff is that a lay practitioner will need to stay grounded in order to deal with every day life and move through the process of clearing blockages through increased concentration and thus equanimity. basically, stuff going on at the upper chakras doesn't seem to be helping the cause if one already has too much energy concentrated in the head and is trying to bring it back into the body. i guess this is more in line with traditional buddhist schools of thought and it certainly lines up with my own experience when energy is more active or open in certain areas. i think these flows will open up by themselves with the time is right and our own systems are ready - ie we are far enough down the path of purification. kickstarting the process may provide some type of insight, but things will ultimately close down again if we haven't systmetically worked through our blockages/delusion. staying grounded is the name of the game.

[Jetsun]

Yeah being grounded, being here in the human realm is the difficult thing, being off dissociated in a high mystical realm is alluring but can be just another means of avoiding really being here.

 

Which is probably one reason why the Tibetans do the type of chanting they do, if you sense where that type of deep gutteral chanting vibrates it is deep in the lower chakra areas, which helps to ground a persons energy down there. Even Tummo is primarily focused on the lower areas, it isn't like typical kundalini type practices which try to raise the energy up.

[MooNiNite]

Some words for thought on surrender (and it's effect) in the West... “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:1-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬ “In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.” ‭‭John‬ ‭7:37-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Flowing rivers of living water remind anyone of anything? Best wishes.

 

is this a reference to the kundalini?

[MooNiNite]

my humble opinion on this kundalini stuff is that a lay practitioner will need to stay grounded in order to deal with every day life and move through the process of clearing blockages through increased concentration and thus equanimity. basically, stuff going on at the upper chakras doesn't seem to be helping the cause if one already has too much energy concentrated in the head and is trying to bring it back into the body. i guess this is more in line with traditional buddhist schools of thought and it certainly lines up with my own experience when energy is more active or open in certain areas. i think these flows will open up by themselves with the time is right and our own systems are ready - ie we are far enough down the path of purification. kickstarting the process may provide some type of insight, but things will ultimately close down again if we haven't systmetically worked through our blockages/delusion. staying grounded is the name of the game.

 

There is a saying. The first 6 chakras have many paths, but from the 6th to the 7th is a pathless path.

 

In otherwords the route for everyone is unique in order to gain experiential realization

[MooNiNite]

Some believe that if they get the kundalini to move through all the blockages in the body and out the top of the head then they will become enlightened. 

 

Although some people like Ramana Maharshi say that that belief is an error and that kundalni will rise naturally when the source of the 'I' is dissolved.

 

The opening of energy channels does seem to be a part of the process from what I have witnessed and experienced myself, but I don't believe trying to force the channels open through exercises is a healthy way to go about it. As far as I know the majority of Buddhist lineages don't deal with it or discuss it much, for example in Zen if a student had too much energy or energetic issues from practice they would be sent to work in the garden and kitchen for a few years to ground it rather than try to stimulate it further or work with it. The focus is more on the mind and how the mind creates suffering in most Buddhist schools, kundalini work is not seen as a requirement.

 

Controlling the kundalini is a different thing. I think this is where the "holy ghost" comes into play. 

 

Confucianism may be the secret to this, the art of handling all of one's earthly responsibilities in order to lay the foundation ground for one to transcend. 

[Jeff]

is this a reference to the kundalini?

 

That would depend on how one would define Kundalini, but essentially yes.

[noonespecial]

Does not kundalini naturually arise through standard buddhist meditations, such as mindfullness etc.

[idiot_stimpy]

Does not kundalini naturually arise through standard buddhist meditations, such as mindfullness etc.

 

I believe so.

 

To concentrate on it might lead to it being a distraction?

[MooNiNite]

Does not kundalini naturually arise through standard buddhist meditations, such as mindfullness etc.

 

Normally yes, but in my experience without creating silence the practices become worthless.

 

In the book Changing Destiny, Fan speaks about people being bound by destiny and having to fulfill their responsibilities, until they can eventually transcend their destiny (pure mind, natural state). This means the practices can be useless under the wrong circumstances. 

 

 

"Those who attempt to awaken the Kundalini by Asanas and Pranayama, should have purity in thought, word and deed. They should have mental and physical Brahmacharya. Then only they can enjoy the benefits of awakening the Kundalini."

 

-Swami Sivananda, The Science of Pranayama

[noonespecial]

I believe so.

 

To concentrate on it might lead to it being a distraction?

 

Got it. The only reason I mention it is because it was during Vipassana that I experienced a strong current of energy (through the left foot, almost like being bitten) that is more or less still with me and is clearly related to the hindu energy centers, the notion of ignoring it instead of 'playing' with it opens up some new ideas which actually fall into place for me right now philosophically. Thanks.

Edited September 3, 2015 by noonespecial

[noonespecial]

"Those who attempt to awaken the Kundalini by Asanas and Pranayama, should have purity in thought, word and deed. They should have mental and physical Brahmacharya. Then only they can enjoy the benefits of awakening the Kundalini."

 

-Swami Sivananda, The Science of Pranayama

 

Agreed.

[Bindi]

 

"Those who attempt to awaken the Kundalini by Asanas and Pranayama, should have purity in thought, word and deed. They should have mental and physical Brahmacharya. Then only they can enjoy the benefits of awakening the Kundalini."

 

-Swami Sivananda, The Science of Pranayama

 

I think it would be interesting to explore this more.

 

What is meant exactly by mental and physical Brahmacharya? I've googled these terms but haven't found the sense of this sentence.

 

Why purity in thought, word and deed? I have read that kundalini magnifies negative emotions, is this the reason?

 

What are the benefits that can be enjoyed that cannot be enjoyed if these preconditions are not met?

 

[noonespecial]

 

 I have read that kundalini magnifies negative emotions, is this the reason?

 

 

 

 

It seems like increased awareness in general would do so.

 

Check this out.

 

http://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/2014/03/11/the-dangers-of-meditation-advice-for-meditators-an-interview-with-leigh-brasington-by-willoughby-britton/

[MooNiNite]

 

I think it would be interesting to explore this more.

 

What is meant exactly by mental and physical Brahmacharya? I've googled these terms but haven't found the sense of this sentence.

 

Why purity in thought, word and deed? I have read that kundalini magnifies negative emotions, is this the reason?

 

What are the benefits that can be enjoyed that cannot be enjoyed if these preconditions are not met?

 

 

I am not extremely familiar with the term Brahmacharya, But this is what I understand.

 

"Brahmacharya literally means Achara or conduct that leads to the realization of Brahman or one’s own Self."

- Swami Sivananda

 

 

So in this sense it means a form of self-control. 

 

 

Increased negative emotions is not the problem. It is my personal experience that kundalini actually becomes ineffective if these conditions are not met. A person may be able to reach intellectual realization, but not experiential realization. 

 

It is silence that the initiate is after. Only with silence can they refine concentration. SIlence only comes to those who take responsibility, whatever that may be, each person is unique. 

 

One can raise their concentration to what the Buddhists/Daoists call the 9th level of concentration. After this one can redefine their destiny. This is referring to self-realization or enlightenment. 

 

Enlightenment - Generally means Supreme Perfect Enlightenment, the enlightenment of the Buddhas. It is to see one’s true nature and to comprehend the true reality. -Venerable Master Chin Kung

Edited September 3, 2015 by MooNiNite

[Cheshire Cat]

I was reading that the Tibetans actually misunderstood Buddha's teachings. And that the Buddha actually is against the kundalini.

 

Opinions?

 

The Buddha taught the path that leads to the cessation of suffering.

Grurdjieff taught the way to rely on self-imposed suffering to develop a strong will-power.

 

Actually, it's more likely that the Buddha was against Gurdjieff...

Edited September 3, 2015 by Cheshire Cat

[Ramm]

I'm no historian, but was kundalini even a thing back in the days of the Buddha? I doubt it (could be wrong), maybe someone can provide some facts regarding that?

[C T]

 

I am in partial agreement with you, CT. Kundalini has been sorely misunderstood from the immemorial roots of human spirituality. 

 

Do Easterners have a fundamentally sound make-up? On a general note, they are not - as no one is - exempt to misunderstandings or poor practices. Neither are their gurus.

 

If you surrender to someone (or something) with unrefined, or partially refined, energy, you will experience a variety of "kundalini syndromes".

 

From my personal experience with kundalini (a term that could simply be described as spiritual energy that is in a state of refinement (rising) or impairment (falling)), I see the challenge as not about being able to, or not being able to, surrender. It is about what one is surrendering to. 

 

Ultimately, one's spiritual trajectory can be charted by tracing the energies of what one is surrendering to. Understanding this deep, subtle truth of energy can take lifetime(s) to learn.

 

Do you know what you are surrendering to?

 

In answer to the last question, Kundalini yoga is not part of my practice. In Vajrayana the emphasis is on devotion rather than surrender. Both are valid, but not equal in terms of approach. 

 

Vajrayana practitioners are encouraged to examine a guru for at least 12 years prior to full immersion into guru yoga, of which devotion is central. Likewise, during the interim, the guru will also examine the student, and in the process, there is that build-up of trust. Trust is one of the core qualities present in any authentic guru/disciple relationship. It really takes a long time to develop this quality. But in the West, very few who take up a spiritual path have this kind of patience. They prefer to pay their way, perhaps in order to avoid the possibility of embarrassment of being obligated otherwise. Hence this is one of the major factors which contribute to, in your words, a certain kind of impairment, or in Vajrayana parlance, its more like an obstacle towards proper spiritual development for those who embark on either kundalini yoga (surrender) or guru yoga (devotion). If we were to scrutinise the minds of those from the East and West, we will observe that even the understanding of the term 'trust' is different between an Asian or an Indian, and a Westerner. 

 

As for Easterners having a sound make-up, particularly in the regions around India, i was specifically referencing their attitude towards some (in their community) who may happen to overshoot their zealousness when practicing esoterica and end up with various problems - these individuals are given a lot of spiritual support, and are never shunned or denigrated. They dont get ostracised from the community. In fact, they are often allowed to be brought to temples where they get to receive all the necessary 'treatments', from exorcisms to ayurvedic healing, to prayers and whatever else deemed helpful towards the reintegration of their wholeness. And such extensive healing are mostly done for coconuts (literally), and for as long as it takes. In this regard, there is a stark difference between East and West. 

 

I'm not saying East is better... just making the point that there is a marked difference between, say, a Kashmiri's and an American's understanding of the dynamics of surrendering. The 'who', in my opinion, is secondary. In the East, those who embark on spiritual quests, by virtue of being brought up there, already possess the understanding that the greater the surrendering, the more empowered one gets. This gives them some leeway towards avoiding some obvious problems, although not all, but the spectrum is wider. Westerners are still coming to grips with such a level of understanding, but its gradually taking shape, as evidenced from the increasing interest in the profundity of concepts such as 'letting go' in order to redeem the fragmented self, or seeing the whole in the part.  

Edited September 9, 2015 by C T