Why would you want to raise Kundalini?

[C T]

 

Tantric, Tao and other traditions consider the Kundalini to be a natural occurance conducive to rapid spiritual awakening. 

Would you happen to know which specific Tantric & Tao traditions detail that Kundalini is conducive to spiritual awakening? Links, articles, commentaries that support your statement will be much appreciated. 

Edited February 20, 2015 by C T

[Jeff]

Hi CT,

Here are a couple examples for you...

From our Kashmir Saivite point of view, however, kundalini yoga is the most important yoga in this system. Kashmir Saivism explains that there are three paths of kundalini yoga: para kundalini yoga, cit kundalini yoga, and prana kundalini yoga. -Secret Supreme (Lakshmanjoo)

For this reason, the breathing methods and those of concentration on the chakras and channels are indispensable, together with perfect mastery of the Kundalini energy. - The Supreme Source (Norbu)


Best,
Jeff

Edited February 20, 2015 by Jeff

[Sahaj Nath]

Would you happen to know which specific Tantric & Tao traditions detail that Kundalini is conducive to spiritual awakening? Links, articles, commentaries that support your statement will be much appreciated. 

 

kind of a perplexing question coming from you. you're one of more well-read people around here, so it makes me think....

 

"IT'S A TRAP!"

 

every single tantric school where shaktipat is a thing teaches that kundalini is essential to awakening. and wouldn't the taoist equivalent be the Kan and Li and the Buddhist equivalent be Tummo? i'm willing to bet that the differences are mostly just academic.

 

 

but Lakshamjoo, Muktananda, the Nath Siddhas, whoever originally wrote the Guru Gita, Dhyanyogi Madusudandas,...

 

 

from the Arcane Archive:

 

 

 

3. So does everyone agree that kundalini awakening is necessary forenlightenment?This view is held in the diverse literature of Kashmir Shaivism and inother Hindu Tantric literature. It is found in the literature of the HathaYogis and the Nath Sampradaya. You will find similar views in many Buddhist Tantric works. In addition this view is held by recent spiritualfigures such as Shri Ramakrishna, Swami Sivananda, Paramahamsa Yoganandaand Swami Vivekananda and of course by contemporary kundalini yoginsthemselves.Nevertheless there are some dissenters from this view. These include SriChinmoy, Da Free John and Gurdjieff.  Then there are many other spiritualpractices, such as Zen, Vipassana meditation that consider kundaliniirrelevant.

 

 

Da Free John (Adi Da Samraj) received shaktipat from Rudrananda and Muktananda, and while he may not have focused on Kundalini per se, a key element of his method was INTENSE darshan. so again, the distinction is only academic.

 

EDIT: **just looked up Adi Da's take on Kundalini. he DID, in fact, offer shaktipat to his devotees. he referred to it a Ruchira Shaktipat which he believed was superior to all other shaktipats. well, his ego aside, he was definitely a proponent of the Psycho-physical anatomy (kundalini) as a necessary path to realization.** he's drawing distinctions without a difference.

 

EDIT: Clear Light of Bliss by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. how did i leave that book out. it talks all about the various winds, channels, and channel wheels. his union of great bliss and emptiness to attain buddhahood is the same thing as the union of Shakti and Shiva.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Hundun

[C T]

kind of a perplexing question coming from you. you're one of more well-read people around here, so it makes me think....

 

"IT'S A TRAP!"

 

every single tantric school where shaktipat is a thing teaches that kundalini is essential to awakening. and wouldn't the taoist equivalent be the Kan and Li and the Buddhist equivalent be Tummo? i'm willing to bet that the differences are mostly just academic.

 

but Lakshamjoo, Muktananda, the Nath Siddhas, whoever originally wrote the Guru Gita, Dhyanyogi Madusudandas,...

 

 

from the Arcane Archive:

 

 

 

 

Da Free John (Adi Da Samraj) received shaktipat from Rudrananda and Muktananda, and while he may not have focused on Kundalini per se, a key element of his method was INTENSE darshan. so again, the distinction is only academic.

 

EDIT: Clear Light of Bliss by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. how did i leave that book out. it talks all about the various winds, channels, and channel wheels. his union of great bliss and emptiness to attain buddhahood is the same thing as the union of Shakti and Shiva.

Its refreshing to read responses like this one, sustained by info which can be verified if one so chooses. 

 

Thank you. 

[phore]

As has been noted Kashmir shiavism makes references to Kundalini energy. 

 

This may be verified in the works of swami Lakshmanjoo (as has been previously mentioned) and in the Works of Abhinivagupta.

 

This is discussed in Self- Realization in Self Realization Kashmir Shiavism: the oral teachings of Swami Lakshmanjoo by John Hughes, and Kashmir Shiavism: the Secret Supreme by Swami Lakshmanhoo.

 

Heres a link to an exerpt of Self Realization in Kashmir Shiavism on this forum.

 

http://thedaobums.com/topic/36257-kashmir-shaivism-the-nine-types-of-grace-of-siva/

 

Here is a link to Advanced Yoga Practices: 

 

http://www.aypsite.org/54.html

 

The title of this article is:  Kundalini a codeword for sex.  There is also a whole section of the site concerned with Tantra and kundalini.

 

In Taoist Yoga: Alchmemy and Immortality By Charles Luk cultivating and raising the sexual energy at the preorgasmic level is the core of the practices presented.

 

In Mantak Chias Healing Tao System The Kundalini is equated with the Kan and Li process.

 

I know there is a chapter about this in Awaken Healing Energy through the Tao by Mantak Chia.  I believe that the article is in the updated version Awaken Healing Light Through the Tao, but I cant verify this right now.

 

Glenn morris verifies this claim in Pathnotes of an American Ninja Master.

 

Morris clarifies that the difference between the practice in Tao vs Indian systems, is that the Tao systems place emphasis on bringing the energy down the conceptional vessel once it is raised, and continuing to circulate it throughout the body.  In the common Indian model the energy rises into the brain and exits through the crown.  Morris feels that too much Kundalini in the brain, can lead to Kundalini Psychosis.  He recommends touching the tongue to the roof of the mouth and circulating.

 

Morris's Kundalini Awakening Process program, uses a variety of methods including Tao, Tantra, Buddhism (including Tummo), and a few others.  It has an excellent track record of producing Kundalini Awakening experiences in Individuals.  I have spoken to many of these individuals, and completed the course myself..  The program is currently headed by Santiago Dobles.  The success of these different techniques at achieving this end suggests that despite various philosophical differences, people around the world have found this energy worth cultivating.

 

http://www.kundaliniawakeningprocess.com/

 

The above books and authors are very informative on the Kundalini. 

 

Using the above information as a foundation,  I would say that any Tao , Tantric, or oher school that speaks of directing the sexual or orgasmic energy upwards or circulating the  sexual or orgasmic energy is speaking about the phenomonon referred to in tantra as Kundalini.

 

Love and Light

Tony

Edited February 20, 2015 by phore

[Creation]

Using the above information as a foundation,  I would say that any Tao , Tantric, or oher school that speaks of directing the sexual or orgasmic energy upwards or circulating the  sexual or orgasmic energy is speaking about the phenomonon referred to in tantra as Kundalini.

I personally like to keep the differences in as much clairity as the similarities.  I think there is enough unique about kundalini to merit it being considered it's own thing, but belonging to a family of paths which utilize energy latent in the lower parts of the central channel.

 

every single tantric school where shaktipat is a thing teaches that kundalini is essential to awakening. and wouldn't the taoist equivalent be the Kan and Li and the Buddhist equivalent be Tummo? i'm willing to bet that the differences are mostly just academic.

Both tummo and kundalini yoga use speak of causing the winds to enter the central channel and the reversing of prana and apana at the navel, or slightly below, which cultivates inner warmth.  They even use the same breath ratio.  Yet the descriptions diverge here.  Kundalini is held to give samadhi when it reaches the crown, yet tummo melts the white drop which then drips down, giving bliss.  Now, is this merely the academic nitpicking you speak of?  I don't think so, seeing as Mark Griffin distinguishes between the red drop at the navel which is used in tummo and the kundalini which is a coiled serpent at the base of the spine, and the "cool lake" of kundalini at the crown from the white drop just below the crown.  In terms of technique, kundalni is stimilated by khecari mudra, which is not used in tummo practice, and there is no notion of tummo being something that can be awakenend in you by someone else and from then on you do nothing but surrender to it, like there is with kundalini.

 

It seems that they are working with different aspects parts of the same system (5 winds, left right and central channel).  Same system accounts for the similarities, different aspects of the system accounts for the differences.

[Sahaj Nath]

I personally like to keep the differences in as much clairity as the similarities.  I think there is enough unique about kundalini to merit it being considered it's own thing, but belonging to a family of paths which utilize energy latent in the lower parts of the central channel.

 

Both tummo and kundalini yoga use speak of causing the winds to enter the central channel and the reversing of prana and apana at the navel, or slightly below, which cultivates inner warmth.  They even use the same breath ratio.  Yet the descriptions diverge here.  Kundalini is held to give samadhi when it reaches the crown, yet tummo melts the white drop which then drips down, giving bliss.  Now, is this merely the academic nitpicking you speak of?  I don't think so, seeing as Mark Griffin distinguishes between the red drop at the navel which is used in tummo and the kundalini which is a coiled serpent at the base of the spine, and the "cool lake" of kundalini at the crown from the white drop just below the crown.  In terms of technique, kundalni is stimilated by khecari mudra, which is not used in tummo practice, and there is no notion of tummo being something that can be awakenend in you by someone else and from then on you do nothing but surrender to it, like there is with kundalini.

 

It seems that they are working with different aspects parts of the same system (5 winds, left right and central channel).  Same system accounts for the similarities, different aspects of the system accounts for the differences.

then we'll just have to agree to disagree then. *shrugs*

 

you like to keep the differences in. i don't. you acknowledge they're dealing with the same system, which is the basic point that i was making. the rest isn't very significant to me.

 

 

when he talks of bliss merging with emptiness to attain buddhahood, it's no different from shakti merging with shiva to attain realization. the names are different. the techniques to get there are different. the reference points for the techniques to get there are different. yet they are the same thing. the same system of the body.

 

spiritual evolution is an organic process for which the body is naturally designed. sages of different cultures finding and using different reference points and different techniques to achieve the same ends only makes sense. i'm far more interested in the similarities than the differences for that reason. my interest in the differences comes only when i think combining aspects of one with another can produce greater effectiveness.

 

and as per CT's question, i didn't assume that he was quibbling over details. i thought he was asking about specific traditions that focus directly on the mechanics of the body's energy system as a means to enlightenment, as there are many effective traditions that don't waste any time with it, like Theravada and Zen. i could be wrong, but that's where i thought he was coming from.

 

Edited February 22, 2015 by Hundun

[phore]

I personally like to keep the differences in as much clairity as the similarities.  I think there is enough unique about kundalini to merit it being considered it's own thing, but belonging to a family of paths which utilize energy latent in the lower parts of the central channel.

 

Both tummo and kundalini yoga use speak of causing the winds to enter the central channel and the reversing of prana and apana at the navel, or slightly below, which cultivates inner warmth.  They even use the same breath ratio.  Yet the descriptions diverge here.  Kundalini is held to give samadhi when it reaches the crown, yet tummo melts the white drop which then drips down, giving bliss.  Now, is this merely the academic nitpicking you speak of?  I don't think so, seeing as Mark Griffin distinguishes between the red drop at the navel which is used in tummo and the kundalini which is a coiled serpent at the base of the spine, and the "cool lake" of kundalini at the crown from the white drop just below the crown.  In terms of technique, kundalni is stimilated by khecari mudra, which is not used in tummo practice, and there is no notion of tummo being something that can be awakenend in you by someone else and from then on you do nothing but surrender to it, like there is with kundalini.

 

It seems that they are working with different aspects parts of the same system (5 winds, left right and central channel).  Same system accounts for the similarities, different aspects of the system accounts for the differences.

You bring up an interesting point. 

 

Essentiallly you point out two important observations.

 

1.  The breathing practice of tummo and Kundalini are virtually the same.  Additionally both practices involve taking the energy in the lower central channel and directing them upwards.  Both exercises produce psychic/spiritual experiences.

 

2.  The psychic visualizations and experiences vary somewhat in their description. 

 

So lets suppose we took two people practicing two different types of breathing that looked essentially the same.  These two people sitting side by side would look as if they were practicing basically the same thing.  The difference would be in their minds.  One would be visualizing tibetan buddhist symbols, while one would be visualizing hindu symbols. 

 

The nature of the kundalini experience is a spiritual/ psychic experience.  I once knew a girl who was laying in a tent with someone who was expeirencing a full blown Kundalini Awakening.  While the person experiencing Kundalini, reported full bodied orgasmic ecstacy, a rainbow colored light snake, projecting into a higher realm, and visions of Kali, the girl laying a few feet away experienced nothing of the sort.  This indicates that the Kundalini awakens in an individuals mind and consciousness.

 

This is an important observation, because it suggests that all reports of the Kundalini that we possess must be subjective, because they must have all occured to individual subjects.  I recognize that the effects of these experiences can be viewed by others, such as Kundalini active individuals glowing, becoming more open and loving, experiencing physiological changes, ect, but the physiological changes result from experiences that take place in individual minds. 

 

The nature of Kundalini to act in the higher centers, as well as the visionary nature of the experiences themselves suggest that DMT from the pineal gland is largely involved in the process of Kundalini Awakening.  If DMT is involved then it will lend not only the rich mental visuals of the dream state, but also other properties of the dream state as well.

 

The most relevant property of dreams to consider in this context is the tendency for dreams to conform to the dreamers expectations.  This property is commonly observed by lucid dreamers and is discussed by Stephen Laberge PHD in his book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming.  In his book he notes that if he expects that one of his lucid dreaming techniques will work in a certain way, then it does for him.  This same technique will not necessarily work in the same way for others whose expectations are different. 

 

This is a critically important observation if we belive that DMT (Dreame Hormone)  is in any way involved in the Kundalini Experience. 

 

If this is true than what individuals experience in Kundalini is based on their own expectations.  This conforms to my experience with Kundlaini. 

 

1.  A person who practices Shiavism, is initiated into Shiavism, and belives in Shiavism, will likely experience a serpent, Kali, and the Chakras. 

 

2.  A person whi practices tibetan buddhism, is initiated into tibetan buddhism, and believes in tibetan buddhism, will likely experience different colored drops in the body, and maybe some buddhas, tantric deites and bodhisattvas.

 

3.  A person who practices Qigong, is initiated into qigong, and believes in qigong, may just experience energy, with some Tao centric imagery, like a yin body projecting out of the physical body

 

4.  Dante Aligheri who practiced Chriastianity, was initiated into Christianity, and Belived in Christianity, experienced the inferno, the purgatorio, and the paradisio, along with beatrice (a woman he was in love with) Virgil (a poet he admired), and a rosy cross. 

 

Haiving this occur in the participants mind in concordance with the participants expectations can all be attributed to DMT.  This mechanism sheds light on some commopn guidelines in energetic systems. 

 

1.  Initiation into the system is recommeded so that the symbols are given proper importance in the persons mind. 

 

2.  Bhakti is important so that the participant will expect to experience the process as a predictable and loving experience.

 

3.  Mixing systems is frowned upon because the symbols might be experienced simultaneously, and may limit the teachers abiltiy to help.  The teacher who has practiced qigong for 75 years may have no experience with Tibetan Buddhism. 

 

I once guided a Woman throguh a Kundalini Awakening.  She had no particular devotion to the symbols of Shiavism (Chakras, Kali, Shiva, Kundalini Serpent) which I used primarily.  She had initiated the process as she gradually let go of her childhood faith is Southern Baptist Christianity.  The process went very smoothly for her until she insisted on telling her mom about her experiences.  What occured then was a terrible case of symbolic cross contamination.  Her mom and a Christian friend convinced the lady that she was participating in Devil worship, the Serpent had marked er as its own, demons were communicating to her through me thier messenger, and she was surely going to hell unless she repented and accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as her savior. 

 

This process changed her expectations and the previously blissful Kundalini experience became nightmarish for her.  She considered suicide multiple times, and was afraid of her own mind for over a year.   She did even out eventually, and began to love the Kundalini again.  She raises it like its candy these days.

 

The experience of the Kundalini tends to overload the ego and produce individuals who believe that they are enlightened.  This is soemthimes called "Wild Fox Enlightenment" or "Stinking With Enlightenment."  The ego is dazed during the initial shock of the experience, and gradually reasserts itself.  Egos in this stage like to sit around and think up funny names for themselves, such as enlightened being, Lama, Rinpoche, Sorcerer, Master, Grandmaster, Guru, Bodhisattva or Swami.

 

Beings at this stage do not possess perfect psychic clarity, as they may commonly claim.  They have simply discovered the nondual nature of thier self, and have become disoriented by the occurance.  This is why there is such a great degree of vairation in the reported experiences of Kundalini, even within the same system. 

 

The nondual nature of the experience allows peoples minds to interpret the experience however they want, with whatever symbols they like.  The true masters regognize this and do not dwell on the symbols so much.  They do not say "Im enlightened and your not, so you need to meditate for 20 years to be like me."  They say "Were all gods Children."

 

These beings who experience the initial awakening of the Kundalini may eventually lay the ego to rest.  At this point the being may become a clear channel for divine energy, such as Krishna or Yeshua.  At this point the person will begine to naturally speak from a nondual perspective, and confuse people, who interpret thier words dualistically, for thousands of years. 

 

"I am the way, the truth, and the Light, and nobody comes to the father but by me."

 

Other beings may recognize the confusing potential of nonduality, and refuse to address it directly. This is the foundation of Tao and Zen.

 

"The Tao that Can Be spoken Is not the eternal Tao"

-Lao Tzu

 

In my opinion this is why descriptions of the experience vary greatly.  The expreience is a subjective one, so its only natural.

 

I belive expectations are why people experience many of the problems with Kundalini awakening as well.  For example, take  the belief of the existence of a second nerve in the spine that the Kundalini may rise up that will drive the practicioner insane and eventually kill him.  I believe that this came into the popular consciousness with the publcation of Gopi Krishnas book Kundalini the Evolutionary Energy in Man.  In Glenn Morris's Kundalini Awakening Process this possiblity is never mentioned.  Practicioners of Morris's system regularly raise the Kundalini and this issue never comes up.

 

In Gopi Krishnas book Gopi searches all over for a Kundalini awakened individual to help him.  He only finds a yoga teacher who has heard of the Kundalini but never raised it himself.  The teacher passes on the myth of this second nerve.  Gopi immediately beleves that this is what has happened to him and continues to suffer for years. 

 

For KAP students, who dont believe in this possiblity, it doesn't happen. 

 

This is another example of how expectations shape the experience of Kundalini, 

 

Love and Light

Tony

[Sahaj Nath]

good stuff, phore! we have a similar understanding of how it all functions. at least to some degree.

 

 

couple of things, and i only point them out because i feel that they're significant:

 

The nature of the kundalini experience is a spiritual/ psychic experience.  I once knew a girl who was laying in a tent with someone who was expeirencing a full blown Kundalini Awakening.  While the person experiencing Kundalini, reported full bodied orgasmic ecstacy, a rainbow colored light snake, projecting into a higher realm, and visions of Kali, the girl laying a few feet away experienced nothing of the sort.  This indicates that the Kundalini awakens in an individuals mind and consciousness.

 

this is a problematic inference. the fact that the girl lying a few feet away experienced nothing CANNOT be extrapolated to all kundalini occasions. plenty of instances defy this inference, so much so that some schools offer warnings to students who have partners that don't practice because the K activity can be contagious. yes, K can and eventually does awaken in an individual's mind, but the process is NOT mere a mental one. it's very much physiological.

 

additionally, plenty of people don't have that kind of vivid mental imagery at all.  dramatic imagery and archetypal symbolism are not definitive of kundalini.

 

now, the other points you make based on this premise are still good and interesting points. it just doesn't all fit quite so neatly into a little box is all.

 

 

 

This is an important observation, because it suggests that all reports of the Kundalini that we possess must be subjective, because they must have all occured to individual subjects.  I recognize that the effects of these experiences can be viewed by others, such as Kundalini active individuals glowing, becoming more open and loving, experiencing physiological changes, ect, but the physiological changes result from experiences that take place in individual minds. 

 

again, no. the reverse is true. the mind experiences are a result of the physiological changes.

 

 

The nature of Kundalini to act in the higher centers, as well as the visionary nature of the experiences themselves suggest that DMT from the pineal gland is largely involved in the process of Kundalini Awakening.  If DMT is involved then it will lend not only the rich mental visuals of the dream state, but also other properties of the dream state as well.

 

The most relevant property of dreams to consider in this context is the tendency for dreams to conform to the dreamers expectations.  This property is commonly observed by lucid dreamers and is discussed by Stephen Laberge PHD in his book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming.  In his book he notes that if he expects that one of his lucid dreaming techniques will work in a certain way, then it does for him.  This same technique will not necessarily work in the same way for others whose expectations are different. 

 

this type of reasoning is just too reductionist, and the evidence you laid out to get here is not nearly as supportive as you'd like it to be. this would have been a much better post had you posed exciting and interesting questions rather than try to declare all these things to be true or fact-based. is that fair? i don't mean to come down too harshly because you do have some interesting stuff here; it's just the way you presented it as true and/or factual was just not the best means.

 

 

This is a critically important observation if we belive that DMT (Dreame Hormone)  is in any way involved in the Kundalini Experience. 

 

if DMT is IN ANY WAY involved, then there are some interesting things worth considering. but it DOESN'T mean that DMT explains all Kundalini phenomena. okay, i'm running out of steam here. kind of a long post you made.

 

 

...  For KAP students, who dont believe in this possiblity, it doesn't happen.

 

This is another example of how expectations shape the experience of Kundalini, 

 

Love and Light

Tony

 

you've got some good ideas, and i like what they make me think. but you're pushing so hard for the answers that you're not appreciating the questions. you've gotta stop taking one or two cases and then trying to extrapolate to all of humanity. it just doesn't work. picking out isolated pieces of info or limited interpretations to support a very specific conclusion doesn't work either.

 

i'm sorry. because i really did like your post. i just see a lot of problems with how you presented everything. people in my real life tend to have their feelings hurt when i do this kind of thing, so i'll back off.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Hundun

[forestofemptiness]

Personally, I don't think that Kundalini is well-defined. I find definitions ranging from the ascent of a specific energy up the spine to connect with the crown to a wide range of mystical experiences. I think this is in part due to the high value placed on Kundalini awakening, such that people seek to interpret their own experiences as a sign of Kundalini awakening. 

 

I suppose my question for Hundun is: as this is an area you've devoted considerable time and energy into over the years, what do you see as the defining and commonly held characteristics of Kundalini awakening? 

[Sahaj Nath]

Personally, I don't think that Kundalini is well-defined. I find definitions ranging from the ascent of a specific energy up the spine to connect with the crown to a wide range of mystical experiences. I think this is in part due to the high value placed on Kundalini awakening, such that people seek to interpret their own experiences as a sign of Kundalini awakening. 

 

I suppose my question for Hundun is: as this is an area you've devoted considerable time and energy into over the years, what do you see as the defining and commonly held characteristics of Kundalini awakening? 

 

good question!  maybe i do take for granted that we all have a general working knowledge of what Kundalini is and what it's characteristics are. but you're right about people wanting to claim kundalini as a sort of status or acheivement, and that's gonna inevitably generate confusion and misunderstanding.

 

the first question is, what is Kundalini? Kundalini is a specific energy that lies dormant at the base of the spine. Awakened Kundalini is when that energy becomes active in the body and begins working it's way through the entire system, but most significantly through the spine and up to the crown of the head. there is almost unanimous agreement on this definition.

 

now, that being said, what are the defining characteristics of Kundalini? this is a bit trickier because the awakened K has an impact on just about EVERYTHING in the body at one point or another. so some characteristics, though they may indeed be a result of K activity, just aren't definitive enough to be worth including.

 

i as a general and incomplete template, i'm gonna defer to my late friend El Collie, and i'm gonna go ahead and eliminate a couple like headaches and digestive problems.

 

 

 Muscle twitches, cramps or spasms.

 

    Energy rushes or immense electricity circulating the body

 

    Itching, vibrating, prickling, tingling, stinging or crawling sensations **particularly in the spine**

 

    Intense heat or cold ** particularly in the spine**

 

    Involuntary bodily movements (occur more often during meditation, rest or sleep): jerking, tremors, shaking; feeling an inner force pushing one into postures or moving one's body in unusual ways.  (May be misdiagnosed as epilepsy, restless legs syndrome, or PLMD

 

    Alterations in eating and sleeping patterns

 

    Episodes of extreme hyperactivity or, conversely, overwhelming fatigue

 

    Intensified or diminished sexual desires

 

    pressures within the skull

 

    Numbness or pain in the limbs (particularly the left foot and leg)

 

    Pains and blockages anywhere; often in the back and neck

 

    Emotional outbursts; rapid mood shifts; seemingly unprovoked or excessive episodes of grief, fear, rage, depression

 

    Spontaneous vocalizations (including laughing and weeping) -- are as unintentional and uncontrollable as hiccoughs

 

    Hearing an inner sound or sounds, classically described as a flute, drum, waterfall, birds singing, bees buzzing but which may also sound like roaring, whooshing, or thunderous noises or like ringing in the ears.

 

    Mental confusion; difficulty concentrating

 

    Altered states of consciousness: heightened awareness; spontaneous trance states; mystical experiences (if the individual's prior belief system is too threatened by these, they can lead to bouts of psychosis or self-grandiosity)

 

    Heat, strange activity, and/or blissful sensations in the head, particularly in the crown area.

 

    Ecstasy, bliss and intervals of tremendous joy, love, peace and compassion

 

    Psychic experiences: extrasensory perception; out-of-body experiences; pastlife memories; astral travel; direct awareness of auras and chakras; contact with spirit guides through inner voices, dreams or visions; healing powers

 

    Increased creativity: new interests in self-expression and spiritual communication through music, art, poetry, etc.

 

    Intensified understanding and sensitivity: insight into one's own essence; deeper understanding of spiritual truths; exquisite awareness of one's environment (including "vibes" from others)

 

    Enlightenment experiences: direct Knowing of a more expansive reality; transcendent awareness

 

**Cycling between periods of emotional panic and periods of deep calm**

 

EDIT: **parts added by me**

 

 

as i said above, this is far from exaustive, but these are among the most common PARTICULAR experiences.

 

i would say that you need have experienced a minimum of 6 of this symptoms to even bother with consideration, but 10 or more would be pretty conclusive. i've experienced every single one of these except for one.

 

so that's kind of a technical assessment of determining if the K is truly active. but there's another definition that i like, a definition that underscores why shaktipat traditions are considered practitioners of Kundalini Maha-yoga. and it's this:

 

an awakened Kundalini will trigger spontaneous and continuous yogic processes in the body. that's it.

 

you can forget about everything else. if this isn't true, it's not Kundalini.

 

that's my preferred frame of reference for how to know if the K is awake, and it's fairly definitive when you think about it. it's as close to solid definition that we're going to get, i think. thoughts?

Edited February 23, 2015 by Hundun

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

One day I should perhaps write as complete an account as I can of my "event," its prelude and aftermath.

 

There would be a lot to tell.

...

[Jetsun]

Even if you stimulate a fully blown active kundalini energy all it will produce are states, which may be nice and blissful or could be horrific, but they are still temporary states which even in the greatest mind blowing rapture will still be confined by some level of subtle egoic seperation. I find it more useful to look for that which is ever present, or before or beyond all states, which also may help a great deal grounding and putting in context anything which arises from any energies in the body which become activated through the awakening process, which also opens up the energies naturally anyway without you forcing it.

[Sahaj Nath]

Even if you stimulate a fully blown active kundalini energy all it will produce are states, which may be nice and blissful or could be horrific, but they are still temporary states which even in the greatest mind blowing rapture will still be confined by some level of subtle egoic seperation. I find it more useful to look for that which is ever present, or before or beyond all states, which also may help a great deal grounding and putting in context anything which arises from any energies in the body which become activated through the awakening process, which also opens up the energies naturally anyway without you forcing it.

 

hey, i'll be the first to say that it's good that you're satified with your path. it's a beautiful one. i just happen to be in the midst of this one, and i trust the revelations that i've had so far that indicate the masters before me were on to something.

 

and, just to be clear, it's NOT just the arising of temporary states. that would be a waste of time. the end result once everything gets cleared out is realization. those prior states are no more the point in this path than they are in yours. plus, many sincere students in this type of path DO also look for that which is ever-present, that which is untouched, unmoving, and unchanging in the midst of all the phenomena that comes and goes. that's not missing from this path. it's not a requirement of this path, as it will arise as a natural result of  sadhana and the K process reaching completion, but it's not completely absent.

 

besides, if the energies open up anyway, as you say, then you're not going to just by-pass all the cleansing experiences that result prior to the complete opening. so you'll contend with any number of temporary states as well. i honestly don't see a whole lot of difference.

 

[Jetsun]

 that's not missing from this path. it's not a requirement of this path, as it will arise as a natural result of  sadhana and the K process reaching completion

 

I know a lot of people and historical masters would agree that what you say here is the truth, yet the people I have been working with say that if you bring kundalini energy to the upper chakras then it can lead to vast openings on that level and personal states which can be useful for breaking free of limitations and conditioning, but is still limited to subtle levels of ego and separation consciousness and isn't the same as true awakening, and therefore ultimately not satisfying to the heart. Having not done such kundalini practices myself I cant say what is the truth from my own experience, but I thought I would put that out there.

[Sahaj Nath]

I know a lot of people and historical masters would agree that what you say here is the truth, yet the people I have been working with say that if you bring kundalini energy to the upper chakras then it can lead to vast openings on that level and personal states which can be useful for breaking free of limitations and conditioning, but is still limited to subtle levels of ego and separation consciousness and isn't the same as true awakening, and therefore ultimately not satisfying to the heart. Having not done such kundalini practices myself I cant say what is the truth from my own experience, but I thought I would put that out there.

 

well, then it's a good thing i don't work with those people then, eh? LOL!

 

seriously, though. pick a path. they'll all have their pitch for why their way is great and why some others fall short. none of that moves me, though. one thing that i know to be true is that the qualities we bring to the table are far more important than the schools we ultimately commit to. (assuming, of course, that we're talking about well-established, legit systems)

 

so i have no arguments against the people you're working with. if they are the knowledge holders in your life, then you should believe in them, trust them. no good will come from me expressing apprehensions about them. you can take refuge in the satisfaction that you have a superior path. and you should.

 

and i can do the same.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Hundun

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Just because something is only a state doesn't mean it's not useful or inherent or even necessary to the big picture.

 

Whatever we do to get to the uncontrived is ultimately going to involve using certain skilful contrived processes to end unskillful contrived processes, until the last block can finally implode on itself naturally. We should all use however many stages in between as we find useful. Nobody can stop contriving as an effort of will, it can only be a natural fruition.

 

If someone is honestly close to ready to let go at the deepest level, they can be quite direct. Others cannot. Both are following a right route for themselves, so long as the bigger picture is kept in mind.

 

For some people, actively working on things like kundalini (obv. not forcing) is helpful. Others prefer to let it occur naturally. It seems to me that kundalini inevitably occurs along the way, and catalyses a lot when it does, but it is only one aspect of the path.

[Jeff]

I know a lot of people and historical masters would agree that what you say here is the truth, yet the people I have been working with say that if you bring kundalini energy to the upper chakras then it can lead to vast openings on that level and personal states which can be useful for breaking free of limitations and conditioning, but is still limited to subtle levels of ego and separation consciousness and isn't the same as true awakening, and therefore ultimately not satisfying to the heart. Having not done such kundalini practices myself I cant say what is the truth from my own experience, but I thought I would put that out there.

 

What you call "kundalini" is just the result of ongoing clarity (and a necessary part of the process). After the upper chakras open, the process continues on to merge and integrate the chakras into a sort of "unified field" (or light body). That unified field is based in the "heart". Based in the heart, that field is the balance and merging of emptiness and clarity.

 

Best wishes.

[Jetsun]

What you call "kundalini" is just the result of ongoing clarity (and a necessary part of the process). After the upper chakras open, the process continues on to merge and integrate the chakras into a sort of "unified field" (or light body). That unified field is based in the "heart". Based in the heart, that field is the balance and merging of emptiness and clarity.Best wishes.

 

What I call Kundalini is the particular energy which moves along the spine feeding the nervous system and energising the chakras. There are all sorts of other energies and pathways also associated with clarity and awakening.

 

I agree that those channels becoming open is a necessary part of the process but it isn't always a linear progression as such. There are those who do it the other way around, they penetrate through the sense of I in the heart into the ground of their being which in turn removes the contractions in the channels as pure life energy rushes in. So the kundalini process can be a result of moving into awakening rather than a method to arrive at it.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Jetsun

[Jetsun]

Ramana Maharshi on raising Kundalini up the Sushumna:

 

Question : How to churn up the nadis [psychic nerves] so that the kundalini may go up the sushumna?

 

Ramana Maharshi : Though the yogi may have his methods of breath control for this object, the jnani's method is only that of enquiry. When by this method the mind is merged in the Self, the shakti or kundalini, which is not apart from the Self, rises automatically.

The yogis attach the highest importance to sending the kundalini up to the sahasrara, the brain centre or the thousandpetalled lotus. They point out the scriptural statement that the lifecurrent enters the body through the fontanelle and argue that,viyoga [separation] having come about that way, yoga [union] must also be effected in the reverse way.

Therefore, they say, we must by yoga practice gather up the pranas and enter the fontanelle for the consummation of yoga. The jnanis on the other hand point out that the yogi assumes the existence of the body and its separateness from the Self. Only if this standpoint of separateness is adopted can the yogi advise effort for reunion by the practice of yoga.

In fact the body is in the mind which has the brain for its seat. That the brain functions by light borrowed from another source is admitted by the yogis themselves in their fontanelle theory. The jnani further argues: if the light is borrowed it must come from its native source. Go to the source direct and do not depend on borrowed resources.

That source is the Heart, the Self. The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady, unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its existence from the unchanging Self.

All that is necessary is to give up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever-shining Self will be seen to be the single non-dual reality. If one concentrates on the sahasrara there is no doubt that the ecstasy of samadhi ensues. The vasanas, that is the latent mental tendencies, are not however destroyed. The yogi is therefore bound to wake up from the samadhi because release from bondage has not yet been accomplished.

He must still try to eradicate the vasanas inherent in him so that they cease to disturb the peace of his samadhi. So he passes down from the sahasrara to the Heart through what is called the jivanadi, which is only a continuation of the sushumna.

The sushumna is thus a curve. It starts from the lowest chakra, rises through the spinal cord to the brain and from there bends down and ends in the Heart. When the yogi has reached the Heart, the samadhi becomes permanent. Thus we see that the Heart is the final centre.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Jetsun

[Jeff]

Hi Jetsun,

 

My definition of what is called "kundalini" is much broader that what some call just the energy that flows up (or down) the spine. I would also agree that the body can be seen as a subset of the mind as described above, and hence energetic opening can show up in any part of the body. But that what you are calling mind continues to merge/integrate into all the exists (and has the potential to exist), or in your above framework "univeral Self". With that realization, the body becomes the entire universe and the heart has no center other than ones focus (or attention). Then after a while, one notices that such focus defines what is percieved (and hence exists), ultimately leaving one with sort of a focus (clarity) and nothingness. Or you could say that the nesting dolls are seen through.

 

Best, Jeff

Edited February 24, 2015 by Jeff

[dwai]

I think that if one has a good practice/good system of keeping the channels clean and open, then a lot of issues associated with "Kundalini" rising are offset. The spiritual aspect of the energy rising is the most relevant, other stuff is merely coincidental imho. Energy is energy...if you call it Qi it is so, Prana - so be it, Kundalini - so be it. There isn't any particular reservoir of energy separate from the prana of the body lying hidden, imho. It is a result of being able to sense and flow our internal energy better.

 

The opening of the heart chakra resonates with me, in light of some recent experiences. It is in a sense a dawning of great emotional awareness -- that which is called "compassion" or "love"...but each of us have our own experiences as yardsticks and no two experiences are absolutely alike.

[Songtsan]

If I remember correctly, in Taoist practices, the Greater Kan and Li is the equivalent of full blown Kundalini awakening. The problems most have with kundalini is that the arisal of the energy gets stuck in the head. Cooler methods, i.e. water methods as in typical MCO practice seem to work on sending the energy downwards for storage and to avoid excess fire in the head. This fire in the head is essentially mania/egomania and so forth.

 

So yeah, I would say that if you are prone to mania and don't know how to silence your mind or how not to get caught up in fervor and rajas, you should not try to fully awaken it. If you have cleared the nadis and realize the ways to not get carried away by the rajasic energies, and can successfully cycle the energy down the conception vessel, you can do it without fear.

[Sahaj Nath]

Just because something is only a state doesn't mean it's not useful or inherent or even necessary to the big picture.

 

Whatever we do to get to the uncontrived is ultimately going to involve using certain skilful contrived processes to end unskillful contrived processes, until the last block can finally implode on itself naturally. We should all use however many stages in between as we find useful. Nobody can stop contriving as an effort of will, it can only be a natural fruition.

 

If someone is honestly close to ready to let go at the deepest level, they can be quite direct. Others cannot. Both are following a right route for themselves, so long as the bigger picture is kept in mind.

 

For some people, actively working on things like kundalini (obv. not forcing) is helpful. Others prefer to let it occur naturally. It seems to me that kundalini inevitably occurs along the way, and catalyses a lot when it does, but it is only one aspect of the path.

 

damn good points! this is pretty much why i incorporate so many different types of spontaneous, natural flow practices. i do believe that they are the fast track to an organic, uncontrived conditon.

 

 

 

Ramana Maharshi on raising Kundalini up the Sushumna:

 

Question : How to churn up the nadis [psychic nerves] so that the kundalini may go up the sushumna?

 

i'm not going to criticize Ramana Maharshi's perspective because i said i wouldn't express apprehensions about your teachers. but i think it's fair to say that context is important here. he's talking to some person who had some specific beliefs about how realization works. what he said to this guy was appropriate, especially given that the guy is asking for instructions which have NOTHING to do with what or how Ramana teaches.

 

i kind of feel like it's unfair to take his words as a solid commentary on all yogic systems that use K activation instead of what it actually is: a conversation with a student who came to him with all the wrong ideas about what Ramana Maharshi does as a master.

 

Ramana Maharshi is speaking the truth of his system. his response was the correct response for his knowledge community addressing that particular person asking the question.

[Jetsun]

i'm not going to criticize Ramana Maharshi's perspective because i said i wouldn't express apprehensions about your teachers. but i think it's fair to say that context is important here. he's talking to some person who had some specific beliefs about how realization works. what he said to this guy was appropriate, especially given that the guy is asking for instructions which have NOTHING to do with what or how Ramana teaches.

 

i kind of feel like it's unfair to take his words as a solid commentary on all yogic systems that use K activation instead of what it actually is: a conversation with a student who came to him with all the wrong ideas about what Ramana Maharshi does as a master.

 

Ramana Maharshi is speaking the truth of his system. his response was the correct response for his knowledge community addressing that particular person asking the question.

 

I think it is a precise rebuttal the commonly held belief that the practice of raising the kundalini alone can bring you to the recognition of the place free of bondage or to non-duality. He is highlighting that it isn't even necessary and doesn't directly lead there and doesn't destroy the mental tendencies which block realisation (there are many assumptions that it purifies everything in the way), which is pretty useful information in my opinion, especially as people seem to be obsessed with Kundalini stuff these days. 

 

That might not be the way or purpose you are using raising K in your own practice and by the sounds of things you are incorporating it into a wider framework, yet overall I feel it is particularly relevant..