Clay Supplements

[Ian]

(clay meanderings pulled private notes)

 

I'm cautious about the clay, even terramin.

 

(Still, obviously, some really good stuff but... focusing on the "but" right now.)

 

1. What is it leaching out, aside from toxins? Definately some moisture, juiciness, dries out the channels.

Does it leach out some nutrients that then results in cravings?

 

I found that, even after just one terramin tablet, that I started reaching for adzuki beans and such - things that I craved when I was taking too much clay, earlier. I have caution that it's leaching out some nutrients that we haven't identified yet, and that results in the cravings, and then we take more clay and get more cravings. (I don't know about this, I'm just tossing out theories right now.)

 

While I like a lot of the other effects, I'm also cautious about the drying. I'm taking oils along with the clay, but I don't know if that's a really healthy balance ... I don't think it really compensates for the drying. I mean, if you take an extreme drying thing and a remedy, it's not really like you never took the drying thing - you're just hurting yourself and applying a remedy ... it's still rough on the system. Also, are oils the right remedy?, .. the optimal remedy?

 

Are there some other supplements (vitamins or ??), or herbs (maybe jing tonics?), that would better complement the clays?

 

I find myself farting a little (a sign of weakened digestion), from taking a bunch of oils. So, now I have a slight imbalance from taking the oils! sheesh!

 

I think there's definately some more fine tuning to do, on this topic.

I'm going to back off to small doses, 2-3 times a week (not daily).

 

Trunk

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Like, now I'm craving steak. I mean crrrrrr-aving it!, and it's 4 o'clock in the morning!

What's up with that?

Is the clay exposing parts of me that just need more nourishment?

Is it driving nourishment in deeper, so - on the outside - I need more?

Is it leaching out (well, we know it's doing that)?

Some combo of the above?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I still really like the good parts of what I'm getting out of clay...

 

Interesting. I've been trying the bentonite, inevitably, since this thread came up. (if I wrote a list of things I've bought because they came up on this site it would be a mile long...) and just got some terramin yesterday, haven't tried it yet.

 

Feel very strange in the mouth from bentonite, uncertain elsewhere. Bit smelly, slightly detox. Appetite reduced, if anything. The persuasive mouth pleasure of unsuitable foods also slighly reduced.

 

A few random thoughts:

 

1) My teacher is surprisingly blase about nutrition. Always recommends simple rice and veg, actively despises hyper-rich supplements, green powders etc. His reasoning is that we have colossal untapped energy reserves stuck in us as blockages, enough that if it were released at a stroke it would blow up half the country, and that what we need is therefore not more nutrition to add to our blockages, but simply release.

 

2) I buy far too many interesting health products / foods, and with many of them I feel initial benefits, which fade before the bottle/jar/packet is half empty.

 

3) I wonder to what extent it is necessary to be able to feel the action of a product for that product to be working at all. Think about it: if you can feel what it's doing, it means you have awareness, and by implication not too many blockages, in the part of you where it's working.

 

4) I'm not sure about the clay. My feeling is that it's actually very useful, but I don't think I'm doing it right yet. Has anyone tried it as part of a larger process of fasting/ flushing and so on?

[Yoda]

Terramin has been smooth sailing for me, so far. I dig most of the aspects of pascalite even more but it consistently gives me bad headaches. The Redmond is groovy too, but does have some of the drying properties.

 

I'm taking fish oil, but will experiment with coconut oil too.

 

At least according to the manufacturers, the pascalite and Redmond don't have raunchy trace minerals the way terramin does and the terramin people respond to their emails but not the lead inquiry emails so I'm not sure about my next play... dig the terramin but maybe not for the long run.

 

The quack-yet-may-be-on-to-something Dr. (animal doctor) Joel Wallach sells trace mineral supplements derived from ground up clay soaked in cool water for awhile and then tossing the clay itself from the mix.

 

The pascalite people suggest that the same can be done with their clay... just stir and let it sit for a few hours and you get the same minerals sans the clay... maybe that would work for Trunk's situation. Maybe that would help with my headache thing too possibly...

 

Wallach makes a couple of interesting insights. Firstly:

 

To eliminate random mineral deficiency in livestock the agricultural industry added minerals and trace minerals to feed pellets so that every mouthful the animal consumed contained optimal levels of minerals. By contrast humans have historically been told that "you can get everything you need from your four food groups."

 

He also says that mineral deficiencies have been much more intensively studied in livestock than in people as animal health has a financial ramification in the same way that human disease is a better money maker and there's not much money to be made in minerals themselves anyways.

 

He also claims that there is at least one study that says taking trace minerals can displace heavy metals in the body after only a few weeks to months... like the body is willing to let go of toxic metals when it gets the more appropriate metal.

 

Also he claims that taking copper can reverse grey hair caused by copper deficiency.

 

Also he claims that even the healthiest diet in America will land you many deficiencies... that the soil just doesn't have the minerals it once did.

 

Like the Terramin people, he claims that the most long lived cultures owe their health and longevity to their unusually rich soils.

 

I read one of his books, and aside from a the above nuggets, it was a ghastly book to the point that I want it out of my house and life the next time the garbage man comes. It's pretty rare that I dislike a book that much. He makes up for the lack of research on his subject matter by talking on and on about nasty situations that he believes are the result of mineral deficiencies.

 

I put him down as three parts quack one part very insightful.

[freeform]

4) I'm not sure about the clay. My feeling is that it's actually very useful, but I don't think I'm doing it right yet. Has anyone tried it as part of a larger process of fasting/ flushing and so on?

 

A while ago, much to my friends' amusement I did 3 days of fasting and a colonic in Thailand... The normal routine is to do the fast for 7 to 10 days and have colonics twice a day.

 

As part of my routine I had to drink several rounds of clay and psylum husk shakes - disgusting, even though they used watermelon juice... As well as the clay shakes they gave me some other shakes to clean out the liver and such...

 

I like the clay and psylum idea and will be doing that soon (I'm gonna order the powder stuff from the page you found, Ian) - I like the idea of the psylum pushing the clay through - so that the clay isn't in the system for too long - and in fact I remember that the last shake of the day was just psylum - no clay - maybe so that it moves all of the remaining clay out...(?)

 

I also did a fast at home with a lot of activated charcoal - similar leeching effect, but no dryness and no 'satisfaction' feeling.

 

I wouldn't use clay daily or even weekly - do a cleanse of a few days once a month max.

 

 

For minerals I remember trying this stuff in the states that blew my mind - it was a black, tasteless liquid - fulvic acid... I would have it on an empty stomach in the morning followed by (30 minutes later) one of those green powdered smoothies...

 

initially after the fulvic I felt the satisfaction feeling you get with clay, but when the smoothie was drank, literally 15 minutes later I felt a really pronounced buzz and feeling of wellbeing - a smooth, but strong sort of energy that wore off very slowly throughout the day... I did this for 5 days - also tried the fulvic by itself for a day and the smoothie by itself for a day - neither of them alone produced this buzz - although the fulvic did give that satisfied feeling each time...

 

The guy explained that the fulvic acid contains many trace minerals (it's the stuff found in healthy soil where bacteria break down plant matter) and the fulvic molecule is able to penetrate cell walls easily - bringing nutrition in and taking unneeded minerals and toxins out... so combined with the smoothie, all those minerals, vitamins and amino acids actually went into my system intead of being pooped out... that's the theory anyway - in practice, it just made me feel fantastic - in fact I can't believe I didn't remember about this before now!

[Yoda]

interesting combo! Also, I like the word 'satisfaction' when explaining trace minerals. It's not quite 'calming' or 'grounding' and it's not quite 'happiness' or 'bliss' but it is a sort of middle ground satisfaction like after eating a nice meal the energies do average out to be 'satisfaction' but in this case w/o a full tummy.

 

I'm just getting over my pascalite headache... phew!!!

[freesun]

Does anyone have any experience with collodial minerals? They seem like a viable alternative, possibly without the side-effect mentioned in this thread.

 

Right now I am taking a some green clay that has been extremly finely ground. It does not taste like mud It tastes like nothing actually when mixed with a glas of water. So far no problems with it, only good stuff (bath room brakes have gotten more regular). Also I have read it can suck out toxins when applied externaly. I am trying it out with my messed up teeth. We'll see...

[Yoda]

I had misspoke in my above thread. "Dr" Wallach and others who make "plant derived trace minerals" I said soaked clay in water but really it's "humic shale" so rock or clay type of material that was once plant material back in dino days. Supposed to be easier to absorb.

 

I'm taking a few days off or until my headaches clear and then back to the lab. I just bought Vitamin Shoppe brand Colloidal Mineral complex for $13 for a months supply... much cheaper than the others on the shelf. It claims that it does not contain lead or Uranium.

 

~~~

 

Max from another thread says that colloidal is better than clay.

[agharta]

I have a raw animal food eating buddy (he's close to 100% raw, used to be vegan, but not anymore,) who swears by some humic shale product or other. It may be the same one you're talking about.

 

I definitely have noticed calming effects from trace mineral and macro-mineral supplements, but nowhere near what I get from the clays. I'd say taking some of both is probably good, and trying a little of everything would be good.

 

I don't worry about the heavy metal content of the very popular clays I eat. People eat clays to get rid of heavy metals. But, hey. To each his/her/its own, in the moment.

[Yoda]

Agharta,

 

I was hoping the clay guru would share his thoughts.

 

If you've tried trace minerals, you've probably done the "humic shale" thing.

 

Re: heavy metals... from what I can glean trace minerals do drive the bad stuff out of the body.

 

Any idea why I might have gotten headaches from pascalite? I dig its energy, so I'll experiment with the water extraction idea as I'd like to be able to take it.

 

So far my trace mins don't seem to deliver a buzz, but I'm off everything but Terramin until I can make sure I've found my headache culprit.

 

Yours,

Yoda

[mat black]

Freesun,

here's the best mineral formula i've ever used. http://www.luminahealth.com/products/cellfood.htm

 

The process on which it based was designed by a guy that Einstien called a genius.

 

I've been using it for a few weeks now. There was an initial cleansing for a couple of days. This stuff really feels good. It gives energy in a deep kind of way without being stimulating at all.

 

I also have the silica that they sell as well. - very good for the teeth and bones : )

[agharta]

Agharta,

 

I was hoping the clay guru would share his thoughts.

 

If you've tried trace minerals, you've probably done the "humic shale" thing.

 

Re: heavy metals... from what I can glean trace minerals do drive the bad stuff out of the body.

 

 

That's what I've heard. I don't doubt it at all. I wish there was more research on this sort of thing. B arry CArter's friend Jim had 4 times the lethal limits of lead and arsenic in his system at one point, and he managed to survive it. He also was exposed to an unheard-of dose of Ormus at the same time he got the heavy metals, and Barry thinks that's probably what kept him alive.

 

 

 

Any idea why I might have gotten headaches from pascalite? I dig its energy, so I'll experiment with the water extraction idea as I'd like to be able to take it.

 

The water extraction sounds great. Let me know if you get a buzz. I'd back off the dosage on any clay that gives you a headache, until the symptom goes away, and call that a maintenance dose for about a month, then try to up it again, to see what happens. My girlfriend can get headaches from too much Redmond Clay, but backing off the dosage helped her.

 

I kind of wish everyone would all try each of the clays, so when you start talking about all these trace mineral supplements you've tried, you can compare it to something we all understand. But, whatever.

[Trunk]

Ari (a young friend of mine) was giving a poetry reading, and there was a party afterwards at JoAnna's house. JoAnna was saying that when she was pregnant she used to have a blended drink:

tomato juice & tobasco (or one of those spiced tomato juices)

an egg

organic chicken liver

 

I just drove to the store, made it, with parsley and broccoli thrown in. (The ch.liver comes frozen, so I sawed off a chunk with the bread knife, then put the rest in the freezer.)

* Finishing it right now. *

 

I've a hunch that it could be a good restorative after the clay. The oils (cod liver, fish oil, etc) have been helping, but they haven't seemed to be really "it" to restore what the clays dried out.

 

And, don't get me wrong, the clays have made a huge contribution in a good way for me. My tissues & channels are more open, and breathing is better as a result. So I'm definately not anti-clay!

 

btw, In the Chinese herbal materia medica all of the herbs listed have contraindications, and are almost always given in combination with other herbs that balance the approach.

 

 

~ later ~

Maybe I'll get some other organ meat/s to add to the blend.

[agharta]

That sounds tasty, keith. My girlfriend has been re-introducing me to raw eggs lately, in blended drinks, and straight as well. I used to eat them a lot, but got more into raw liver and other organs. It's all good, you go back and forth.

 

I really wouldn't suggest anyone use the clays as heavily as I do, unless they are eating very large amounts of water and excellent-quality raw fats and oils of all types. I was already drinking tons of water and eating huge amounts of raw fats and oils before I got on the clays. I never realized how important they are for clay-eaters, particularly the fats. I thought they accomplished the same thing, pretty much, to stop panic attacks and generally be very grounding. However, you're convincing me that they are best used as part of a combined program, together.

Edited September 11, 2007 by agharta

[freeform]

Freesun,

here's the best mineral formula i've ever used. http://www.luminahealth.com/products/cellfood.htm

 

The process on which it based was designed by a guy that Einstien called a genius.

 

I've been using it for a few weeks now. There was an initial cleansing for a couple of days. This stuff really feels good. It gives energy in a deep kind of way without being stimulating at all.

 

I also have the silica that they sell as well. - very good for the teeth and bones : )

 

Looked through the info and the cellfood seems pretty much identical to fulvic acid that I mentioned earlier... in fact I'm betting it is fulvic acid - they say "Cellfood is made from all-natural plant substances"... which is the case with fulvic, and it has exactly the same trace mineral list as you get with fulvic acid and the same properties of transporting nutrients into cells and toxins out... they somehow use deuterium creatively... not sure what this adds - perhaps the nacent oxygen they talk about (fulvic helps transport oxygen into and out of cells too). the price is not too bad, so worth a try... But in the meanwhile I'm going to try and track down a good fulvic supplier (it's notoriously hard to extract)...

[Yoda]

*Yoda nods sagely and takes another bite of his coconut oil toast.*

 

I'm totally done with my headache. I'll try pascalite in a smaller dosage... that stuff in particular of the three clays A. recommends is the one that draws me to it the most on an energetic level but the one I have the hardest time with. Once the new moon energy is gone, I'll try the water extraction idea.

 

I'm a grounding junkie too... I can *never* get enough... and the clay is nice for that. The humic shale juice seems headache safe, so I'll try more of that today as well.

 

Hopefully, they'll allow me to fly with my clay powder when I go off to see Swami.

[mat black]

Looked through the info and the cellfood seems pretty much identical to fulvic acid that I mentioned earlier... in fact I'm betting it is fulvic acid - they say "Cellfood is made from all-natural plant substances"... which is the case with fulvic, and it has exactly the same trace mineral list as you get with fulvic acid and the same properties of transporting nutrients into cells and toxins out... they somehow use deuterium creatively... not sure what this adds - perhaps the nacent oxygen they talk about (fulvic helps transport oxygen into and out of cells too). the price is not too bad, so worth a try... But in the meanwhile I'm going to try and track down a good fulvic supplier (it's notoriously hard to extract)...

 

 

Ah....I didn't consider that it could be fulvic acid. That's the same stuff that's used in shilajit isn't it? Good thing the cell food doesn't taste as bad as though.

 

The main thing I notice with cell food is that it energises and detoxifies at the same time. And the silica formula is making my fingernails so strong. Soon I'll be able to carve pictures into granite..................or...whatever

[Trunk]

That sounds tasty

Yeah, I like that it's blended, raw - and yet I can't see nor taste the liver. I had heard about organ meats before, but I didn't have a handle on preparation. This fits the bill.

 

I really wouldn't suggest anyone use the clays as heavily as I do, unless they are eating very large amounts of water and excellent-quality raw fats and oils of all types. I was already drinking tons of water and eating huge amounts of raw fats and oils before I got on the clays. I never realized how important they are for clay-eaters, particularly the fats.

Agreed. Hadn't realized that you had that going prior to clays. Group process really clarifies a lot.

 

What kinds of "raw fats and oils" were/are you eating?

* suspects a whole new topic that I don't know much about *

 

*Yoda nods sagely and takes another bite of his coconut oil toast.*

 

I'm totally done with my headache. I'll try pascalite in a smaller dosage...

For me, at least, the oils were certainly not enough to re-juice after the clays. Caution, Yoda.

 

The crease of my pits are slightly red, slightly irritable. Though I've been off of the clays for some days now, my impression is that they triggered a deep deep detox of some sort, and I'm not going back to them until I feel that that is really over, plus some.

 

I also feel somewhat more vulnerable to weather (I find myself wearing layers) and I think that it's more than just that we're headed into season change.

 

The "spicy tomato liver frappe" (raw liver in a blended drink) really still activates the liver - which is the main detox organ, so I think that it's helping the detox to complete - but it is nourishing in a major way. I'm staying with that, every several days, for a while.

[Ian]

 

The crease of my pits are slightly red, slightly irritable. Though I've been off of the clays for some days now, my impression is that they triggered a deep deep detox of some sort, and I'm not going back to them until I feel that that is really over, plus some.

 

 

Yes. I did low dose bentonite for the best part of a week, and have now got a weird cold like thing going on, which is very unusual for me. Plus I think I'm more than usually stinky.

[Yoda]

I think I'm more than usually stinky.

 

I am more stinky in my armpits as well and I think it's the clay. On the whole it's worth it, although I'd like to be less stinky in the long run.

[Yoda]

A friend of mine had tried the wholeapproach.com diet for about a year... psyllium, bentonite, and a fatty acid as an antiyeast diet. Didn't solve her particular issue, but she said it felt healthy and effective.

 

Another example of combining clay and an oil.

 

Due to my stinkiness, I'll try cycling out of clay and try the shale juice for a bit. The shale juice seems to be calming too.

 

I'll have to try all my things at the same time fish oil, clay/shale juice, and veggie juicing... I bet there's a buzz there!!

[agharta]

I have seen/heard of many cases of people going 100% raw, and then having terrible B.O. for the first 2-4 days, and then suddenly none at all. I suspect the clays work about the same.

 

I notice that they tend to make me detox through mucus in my nose, and my girlfriend seems to have a similar experience.

 

 

 

 

 

What kinds of "raw fats and oils" were/are you eating?

* suspects a whole new topic that I don't know much about *

 

 

The "spicy tomato liver frappe" (raw liver in a blended drink) really still activates the liver - which is the main detox organ, so I think that it's helping the detox to complete - but it is nourishing in a major way. I'm staying with that, every several days, for a while.

 

 

I eat coconut oil every day. The Barlean's is the best kind I've found, I think I'll be sticking with it for a while. I also use palm kernel oil for vitamin A. I love the taste, ,but that's an individual thing, probably. My girlfriend hates it.

 

I also use a lot of raw animal fats, fish eggs, etc.

 

Where are you getting your liver, Keith? My girlfriend is trying to get us on raw fresh liver more, and we're looking for sources.

[Trunk]

Where are you getting your liver, Keith?

From 'Wild Oats', a natural market here in the LA area.

 

I had been blending chicken liver, but today I tried beef liver. Found out that beef liver tastes pretty bad , while I hadn't tasted the chicken liver at all - in the otherwise same blended recipe that I mentioned before. No more beef liver for me, chicken liver is all good.

[Yoda]

Can I just eat a hot dog in lieu of the chicken liver?

 

I tried the 'pascalite juice' (letting the clay settle out and drinking the water) no gnarly headache this time, but I can tell that a headache wants to be there. The end product is fairly similar to the humic shale juice that they sell at the health food store but the Pascalite juice seems to carry a stronger vibe to it.

 

As I've said, I'm very attracted to the Pascalite, so I want to figure out a way to take it. I'll probably even reduce the dose a notch and take every other day or something to keep it within comfort level possibly.

[Trunk]

Can I just eat a hot dog in lieu of the chicken liver?

My experience: no.

The chicken liver is tasteless in that drink I mentioned. (Cow liver: yuck!)

 

.. no gnarly headache this time, but I can tell that a headache wants to be there.

Really, really important to keep a buffer of yin (nourishment).

My impression is that the channels dry out, and then close, maybe closed & sorta-stuck-closed if they're really dry. That's a bad situation. Need to stay ahead of it with a comfortable buffer of yin.

 

~ later ~

My suspicion, at this point, is that the clays are addressing jing and on into the 8 extra channels. That's why it's taken 2-3 weeks for red stinky pits to show up: it starts low, and then works up at the pace of the deep channels, slowly. If so, it's especially important to keep the organ layer totally nourished (8 extraordinaries are deeper than the 5 elements). I'm taking a strategy of going very light on the clays (infrequent, low doses) and very heavy on the nourishment (chicken liver, at least several days a week).

 

Of course, all just suspicion at this point - curious and cautious to see how it plays out.

[Yoda]

On the main clay website, they recommend taking clay for 3 days on and 4 days off and then 4 days on and 3 off, etc.

 

That might be a good way to allow the body to adjust.

 

I found a cool source: http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/bentonite.php very cheap, I'll check into it.

 

I'll do my best to take some time off!!!

[Trunk]

I started taking clay (terramin) again yesterday. I'm on the super-slow approach: 1 tablet, once a week, and I ate rich yesterday. Spicy tomato liver and vegies blend in the morning, and more normal nourishing foods the rest of the day. I could feel my body really soaking it up.