Lama Dorje

[Spirit Ape]

Cam,

 

If Kunlun is a downward flow and Opens all 72,000 Channels, gives you a golden light dragon body, makes people stick to tennis nets, then I would say that it would be pretty much up there with the BEST?

 

But, you still choose to train other stuff?

 

Just Kidding Cam, but hows your KL path going what new information have you encounterd with its levels and has it taken you higher spiritually, mentally, healthy?

 

Just a few questions!

 

Ape

[Cameron]

Here is s post I wrote on the Kunlun Forum regarding a few things. This will be my final post on Tao Bums. I felt drawn to write something more and realize now this is it. An this post wil complete the circle on Kunlun, Lama Max and my feeling on issues.

 

As a forward I would suggest perhaps trying to be more gentle and less hard on yourselves and others. We are all sharing the path in one way or another after all.

Kieth,

 

I know you and Yoda are friends and your looking out for his best interests but I have to disagree with some of your views.

 

I base my assessment of this lineage on my own practice and experience as well as hanging with numerous balanced, well integrated and positive people who do this practice.

 

Yoda was pushing the envelope on the whole other worldly vibe right from the get go. I remember being on the phone with him talking about Kunlun and every single conversation circled back to him asking "Hey Cam are you seeing things yet? Have you started seeing things? Are things appearing to you yet?"

 

NOW..I will say this. Max most likely was not a good teacher for someone like Yoda in the WISDOM department. The correct attitude to practicing Kunlun was not really imparted to me until I trained with Sifu Jenny.

 

As a good general example..Oscar Hsu, an advanced Kunlun teacher and good guy was having a pretty powerful experience. Oscar was thrashing on the floor in front of me and really letting go. My movements tend to be more subtle. Some swaying and shaking but after a year and a half I still haven't fallen off my chair.

 

After the practice Sifu Jenny asked us all what we were feeling. Oscar went into a story about his experience. It was either then or at another time in the class he went into a talk about the "Queen Mother of the West" and how she "adopted Max". At the end of this Sifu just said to Oscar "let it go".

 

This is something very interesting to me because this is EXACTLY what Max and Chris say to do in the book. I mean the book really covers the correct perspective on practice as short and concise as it is.

 

"The most important time is the 20 minutes after the completion of level one. It is here that manifestations start to occur. YOU MUST REMEMBER THESE ARE MERELY SIDE EFFECTS, NOT THE END RESULT, AND TO ATTACH TO THEM WILL ONLY HOLD YOU BACK FROM ATTAINING GREATER LEVELS OF WISDOM"

 

Maybe it was my little backround in Zen. But I only really had one experience that could be termed with "an entity" and to be honest there was nothing about it that could really be said it involved a Naga. Though if I had to guess after all I have heard from Max that would make sense. The entity appeared(I didn't see it so much as sensed it in my room.) I had a sense of there being a playful kind of energy there but still at the time didn't want to be bothered. I basically jumped towards it with a bit of aggression and I had the sense that it quickly left.

 

That was it. One event that I could say I felt somewhat intrusive. But the main thing here is the wisdom teaching being neglected somehow I think. I remember one of the first Zen teachers I sat with saying before she awakened a Dragon Eye kept appearing in front of her. The difference in Kunlun someone might get excited about this as sort of attainment where in Zen this is called "makyo..illusion". In Zen ANYTHING THAT IS NOT AWAKENING IS DISGARDED. Whether it's a beautiful experience or an angel or a Dragon Eye. You Let it go.

 

You let it go.

 

For my part..I did reccommend for Yoda to see Sifu Jenny with me. I was one of the ones that got you guys into this so I felt I had to go all the way with it. Seeing Jenny is something I told Yoda would benifit him. We had a good conversation a week or so after I saw Jenny and he didn't mention any of this to me. Not a word. All of the sudden I go on Tao Bums one day and Yoda is anti Max.

 

It's all good. We are all responsible for the choices we make and learn from them hopefully. At the end of this conversation I guess I would have to agree with you that Max maybe wasn't the right teacher for him. Whatever phenomena is involved in the lineage.

 

As a final note..and Chris or Max please correct me if I am mistaken. I'll be the first to readily admit I don't have a clue. But when awakening/re-enlightenment is experienced all these details about lineage or entities or whatever become largely irrelelevant no? Those who have tasted what that might mean might have more to say.

 

I'll follow what Sifu Jenny and Max said. That the goal of this practice in non duality(immedietly wipes out any concern of scary critters outside of yourself)

 

And that this practicice can lead you to the Golden Dragon Body..the highest state. Which if you go by what is written in the book sounds pretty much the same as non duality.

 

"This art is for those seeking the "direct experience". It allows the merging of the microcosm(the universe within) and the macrocosm(the universe outside oneself.) The union of these two worlds allows the activation of the bliss body and through this bliss body, or dragon body, re-enlightenment is possible to the average person."

 

Cam

[Spirit Ape]

Emptiness and stillness meditation is non duality!!

 

Go with in deep through stillness you will then know yourself which is more important.......

[Yoda]

Cam,

 

Well said! I'm glad you had the experience to train with both Max and Jenny and perhaps that would have been helpful to me... hard to say. It sounded like meeting Jenny was very beneficial for Gloria.

 

You are spot on... I wanted to have weird experiences!!! Max definitely delivered and I'm definitely over it!!! (I didn't get a UFO ride, but I won't quibble.)

 

I hope you don't feel like you are being driven off or anything... you are one of the original HT taobums, after all!

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

~~~

 

Scott,

 

Good luck on take II! I'll always remember that night in the hotel room where Cam and I were going on like banshees with our jokes while you were trying to decide whether to laugh or barf.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Aetherous]

That moment will echo throughout all of eternity.

[Trunk]

There are always different points of view, and ultimately everyone finds their own way.

Love to everyone.

(And I'm glad we're all talking civil.)

Keith

[SiliconValley]

Edited May 16, 2009 by SiliconValley

[Cameron]

Not sure where you got the vibe I was judging Yoda. That certainly isn't the case. I love Yoda. We have been friends for years. If Yoda wants to call Max Satan incarnate and Kunlun the direct path to hell he is still my friend.

 

Obviously..I don't believe that. I think Max is a Bodhisattva. I don't say you should feel the same. That is just my opinion.

 

I simply wrote another perspective. As Trunk..another friend of mine I have known for about 10 years now..calmly stated he is glad we can be civil about everything.

 

Now this huge accusation on your part.

 

Let it go.

 

You don't want to do Kunlun go do something else like Yoda.

 

It's all good.

 

And guess what else? I can write whatever opinions I have here and as much as I want and there is nothing you can do about it. As much as you seem to want to bitch about things I write.

 

But this is a waste of my time. Has been for quite some time. So I sincerely wish you the best of luck whatever your path. And for the love of God don't gamble your spiritual path by what some idiots on Tao Bums have to say but get out there and find the truth for yourself. As I am sure most people are doing.

 

Cam

Edited May 16, 2009 by Cameron

[SiliconValley]

Let it go.

 

You don't want to do Kunlun go do something else like Yoda.

 

It's all good.

 

I don't think you really understand what I was trying to say. And when you don't, like most of the times before, you resort to "Let it go, have peace, find your calling" and evade a clear response. I don't however see a problem with that. That's just how some like to deal with things. Well, I am not sure why you think I don't have a practice just because I stopped doing the K-thing. That's exactly what you do - assume and then talk about it everywhere. Well, free speech so you're welcome

 

And guess what else? I can write whatever opinions I have here and as much as I want and there is nothing you can do about it. As much as you seem to want to bitch about things I write.

 

Well, Cam. you've written each of your opinion before, at times without much thought, and you are free to continue doing that! After all, free speech is still the law. And we shall continue to enjoy "my last post" joke. Really mean this on a lighter vein. And this kind of clarifies your approach or thought behind the "heartfelt sharings". Good to know that ...

 

And for the love of God don't gamble your spiritual path by what some idiots on Tao Bums have to say but get out there and find the truth for youself. As I am sure most poeple are doing.

 

Finally, one advice all can follow .. especially when we are the verge of an alien attack where humans are sub-consciously programmed to deliver sales talk for the aliens on forums.

 

I love Yoda. We have been friends for years.

 

As Trunk..another friend of mine I have known for about 10 years now..

 

ok...ok...gotchya, you have many friends here and a couple will probably jump at me now ... but a guy has to say what he wants to ...

 

And good luck to you too..and to Max the Bodhisatva [just saying coz I dunno if Bodhisatvas need luck or not]

Edited May 16, 2009 by SiliconValley

[Cameron]

[Sunya]

This will be my final post on Tao Bums.

 

I lost count how many times I've seen you say this. Are you a man of your word?

 

Edited May 16, 2009 by mikaelz

[Pero]

carbon becomes diamond

Cat on the brink of golden lion body

 

Cute girl.

[Cameron]

I feel the need to make one final post to wrap this up for me.

 

I am happy Yoda has found a path he enjoys and is finding success. Of course I only wish good things for my Taoist brother whatever path he chooses to follow.

 

This is my small understanding after going on 2 years with this practice. I want to say this out of concern for any future Yoda's who may practice from the book or not get the feedback after the seminar for some reason.

 

My feeling is everything is in the new book. The first one was definetly lacking but the new one covers what you need to do outside of taking the seminar. The Kunlun practice can be very intense, no if and or but's about it. You have to monitor as a practitioner how much you can take. There are other practices in the book-namely I Jong standing-that are there to be employed when things are going too fast or getting too intense.

 

My advice to anyone who's doing Kunlun and things are getting unbalanced is drop the practice and focus on I Jong and physical excercise for a few months.

 

I Jong is one of the main practices Max teaches at the seminar and it is also considered the foundation of qigong training by some well know qigong teachers. The most important thing is to be balanced and breathing deeply into the lower abdomen.

 

The method is there. Max's style is not to tell you what to do but show you the methods. It's up to you to know for youself if you need to drop Kunlun for awhile and do more I Jong.

 

I would not say to focus on 5 element standing if your unbalanced. The 5 element standing can be just as powerful as Kunlun and creates very intense energy. So focus on I Jong for a few months and build up to 5 elements and Kunlun.

 

It's all about balance. Not seeing strange things and having cool experiences. If they happen they happen but there is no attachment to any of it.

 

And with that I bid farewell great Tao Bums. I will be a man of my word now and permently bow out. May you all live long and prosper.

 

Got to go check out the new Star Treck

[Spirit Ape]

See you soon!!!

[Smile]

If Yoda wants to call Max Satan incarnate and Kunlun the direct path to hell he is still my friend.

Yoda said that? LOL, that's pretty funny. I should come to this forum more often.

[i_am_sam]

Cute girl.

 

and a big cat!

[Yoda]

Probably right about the 5e standing.

[mgd]

NOW..I will say this. Max most likely was not a good teacher for someone like Yoda in the WISDOM department. The correct attitude to practicing Kunlun was not really imparted to me until I trained with Sifu Jenny.

 

As a good general example..Oscar Hsu, an advanced Kunlun teacher and good guy was having a pretty powerful experience. Oscar was thrashing on the floor in front of me and really letting go. My movements tend to be more subtle. Some swaying and shaking but after a year and a half I still haven't fallen off my chair.

 

After the practice Sifu Jenny asked us all what we were feeling. Oscar went into a story about his experience. It was either then or at another time in the class he went into a talk about the "Queen Mother of the West" and how she "adopted Max". At the end of this Sifu just said to Oscar "let it go".

 

Agreed. Max is not a good teacher of BALANCE or WISDOM. You have to go to another teacher for that. Like I did. Like you did. Like Oscar did. Like the other "advanced Kunlun teachers" who are already teaching it did. They are teaching Kunlun to others and had to go to another teacher other than Max to hear them say "LET IT GO" and obtain the balance that was lacking.

 

You state that it's in the book. Yup it is. But what became apparent to me was that Max and Chris and others involved are good at talking the talk but set an extremely poor example for others because they don't walk it. They encouraged all things weird when I attended the seminar and when I was involved on the Kunlun site. Real questions in regards to getting through the process were overlooked to focus instead on the very things we were supposed to let go of.

QUOTE(Mantra68 @ Mar 1 2008, 02:47 PM) *

 

As you know this stuff is powerful and the effects can be quite intense and subsequent physical changes difficult to go through. While it is tradition to leave the student to figure it all out themselves, we are going to try to do the opposite and give people the feedback and suggestions they need to allow them the chance of completing the process.

They didn't try hard enough. They contributed to making the process more difficult instead of helping folks complete it. So as I see it there are no failures on this path because the Kunlun School didn't do what they promised to do.

 

So quit labeling those brave enough to be the first experimental guinea pigs as "failures".

 

And....I have yet to meet a good example of what this practice will do for you...where are the successes?

 

I think Chris offered a money back guarantee for anyone who wasn't satisfied or if this practice failed to live up to it's advertising claims.

 

I'd like my money back.

[Guest winpro07]

you wont find 'your' wisdom from any other beings on this planet.

No one is able to give balance to any one else.

when you 'choose' or find permission for your own information all the answer

about what 'to do' will arrive..

Edited May 17, 2009 by winpro07

[Aetherous]

Gloria,

 

Your anger is palpable. I don't approve. There's a smart way to go about creating change, and a stupid way. Which do you think anger is?

 

I hope you get your refund...although apparently the K-crew doesn't visit this forum anymore...so you might want to email them.

[Smile]

Well, I already said it before and will say it again.

The problem is not with Max, Chris and what they teach, but with methods how they advertise it. Their methods attract wrong people for wrong reasons, and at the end it will bring a lot of disappointment and misunderstanding.

[minkus]

Cute girl.

 

Yeah, thats what i was thinking also and an immensly cool "little" maine coon darn

[mgd]

Edited May 18, 2009 by mgd

[zahori]

ever heard of The Four Agreements

 

1. Be Impeccable With Your Word

Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

 

2. Don't Take Anything Personally

Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

 

3. Don't Make Assumptions

Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

 

4. Always Do Your Best

Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.

 

 

in the path of no more learning ...only the strong will survive...

 

and you will do become your own teacher

[Aetherous]