Vitalii

Daily timetable of the Quanzhen retreat

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Opendao, _ηŽ‹ε½—_, LaoZiDao, and other Russian followers of Wuliupai!

you say that your Chinese teacher is very famous in China.

can you prove your words?

Give us Chinese name of your teacher, his lineage and transmission, and Chinese source where we can read about it.
If you cannot prove your belonging to Wuliupai, then you're just fooling everyone.


Can you say the name of the Ma Danyang's student who your Yuxianpai school comes from?

Can you clearly answer simple questions instead vague phrases?

If you cannot prove your belonging to Wuliupai, then you're just fooling everyone.

P.S.
For moderators:

Russian followers of Wuliupai created a thread on their Russian forum, where they called on the other members of their school to come to this forum to insult my posts.
Therefore they come here with one target - spread lies about me and my school.

Their russian website contains an enormous amount of offensive arguments regarding me and the School, with no evidence, as the information posted there is not true, for example http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/page-4#entry505007
Moreover, they use personal offenses and name me with coarse language, as they have nothing else to do to explain their statements.
Edited by Vitalii
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Is anybody in the world using your innovative translation? Or is it created for own-usage?

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It`s all known meaning in China, there can be NO translation that vitalii is trying to implant.

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~~~~~~~ moderator message ~~~~~~~~~

_ηŽ‹ε½—_ and taomen

The moderators are well aware that there is ongoing discussion between participants across threads.

While we don’t need to agree with each other on TTB, please do not be insulting eg

As I understand Vitalii again caught lying


And once you have presented your opinion

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I`m not talking to him


Then move on.

If you wish to continue to debate validity, create another thread.
I feel that continuing this debate in this thread would be harassment.
I also feel that continuing to follow Vitalii across threads would be harassment.

Please stop, or I will suspend you from posting.

~~~~~~~ moderator message ~~~~~~~~~

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_ηŽ‹ε½—_

Please stop, or I will suspend you from posting

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Mal Stainkey

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I`m sorry, but how can i be a target for any warning?

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I was discussing about translations, schools and sources. If someone have no arguments against - no problem, i just shared my opinion with people of Tao Bums. Move on, as you said.

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I was not representing what school i belong to (Why Vitalii decided it on his own? He don`t know me.) I`m not promoting my school or my own classes, so i don`t have to answer on any questions about them if I don`t want to. But nobody can decide for me and judge me for this.

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If Vitalii can`t answer about school he`s promoting, or about translations he brings here - no problem, but why he is trying to move it in an emotional-personal field, trying to bring here some information from other forums (Is it true at all? Do you want to check it? I don`t think you need this all)?

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Emotions is a very bad argument.

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I by my self was not posting any personal information about Vitalii, may be some people did - i think it was too much too.

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You can`t let him call me insulting liar and suspend me for this, it`s a nonsence.

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I ask you to tell Vitalii to stop insulting me with his judgements about me.

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And please let me feel free to discuss threads i have passion for. :) I don`t mean anything personal and don`t want other people to do so to me.

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If you don`t liked a joke about pies - no problem, i will not repeat it. ^_^

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Best wishes,

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ηŽ‹ε½—

Edited by _王彗_

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And please let me feel free to discuss threads i have passion for. :) I don`t mean anything personal and don`t want other people to do so to me.

Thank you.

Treat other members here with respect. Do not post insults.

And you will have no problems.

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Vitalii writes: "Russian followers of Wuliupai created a thread on their Russian forum, where they called on the other members of their school to come to this forum to insult my posts. "

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I read that forum sometime and I have not seen anything there of what V. states in the quote above. This is crude lie and personal insult of other people. May be V. can provide a link for what he states?

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The comicality of this discussion is that Vitalii has no any lineage in Taoism and thus his opinion is based on his personal interpretations of Taoism and when people point out where he is wrong he does not answer to this and grandstands. Personally for me this insult of Taoist tradition and other people who are really interested in Taoism. When people bring evidences where he is wrong moderators call it personal attack but V. is not able to prove any of his statements regarding his qualification. With such approach this is complete nonsense. I just want to say that people should respect each other and argue their statements. Especially those people who pretend to be teachers.

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I have no any relation to Wuluipai. Just my opinion.

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Thank you for agreeing to stop, I feel you understand the warnings in this thread and I do not want to have to suspend you from posting for harassment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~ moderator message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Antares has been suspended from posting for 48 hrs.

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This time table makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with "peak times" such as 5-7 am being about eating. Waste of time if one is already so free to be able to follow any such schedule.

Edited by bakeneko

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Waste of time if one is already so free to be able to follow any such schedule.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~ moderator message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Please refrain from such general criticism or you will be suspended

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Sleeping for 2-3 hours a day during retreats could be a valid practice; but I'd be really curious to know if any traditions, either daoist or others, employ this kind of practice these days. We already know that Vitalii teaches it in his retreats, what about other modern teachers? Vitalii refers to some texts re this practice. I wonder if any modern daoist sects and/or monasteries have this kind of recommendations for their students/monks?

In my experience, meditation doesn't decrease necessity for sleep, rather makes sleep more sound and full. But my level could be low and I'm open to ideas. How about more experienced practitioners?

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Edited for clarity.

Edited by idquest

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when I held a retreat for my students in a monastery in Nepal a few years ago, I talked with one Lama of the Karma Kagyu school, and he said that they also sometimes practice meditation retreats, where they sleep only for a few hours.


A person can not follow the retreat with such a schedule not having received a special instruction from the Teacher, because if a student is not ready, then this retreat could be harmful.

before practicing such a program on ones own, he or she should pass several such retreats under the guidance of a Teacher.

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Sleeping for 2-3 hours a day during retreats could be a valid practice; but I'd be really curious to know if any traditions, either daoist or others, employ this kind of practice these days. We already know that Vitalii teaches it in his retreats, what about other modern teachers? Vitalii refers to some texts re this practice. I wonder if any modern daoist sects and/or monasteries have this kind of recommendations for their students/monks?

In my experience, meditation doesn't decrease necessity for sleep, rather makes sleep more sound and full. But my level could be low and I'm open to ideas. How about more experienced practitioners?

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Edited for clarity.

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Years ago I worked in a modality that had nothing to do with taoism but aimed to dismantle one's defense mechanisms to get to the reality behind them for the purpose of healing. Sleep deprivation was used as one possible intervention, though it was not universal -- whatever people used as defenses was taken away from them on an individual basis: the socially active were asked to spend a couple of weeks (or more) in complete isolation and silence (and no TV, books, computer, phone, etc. either), while the ones who habitually kept to themselves and shunned human contact were asked to go out and talk to strangers all day, and so on. There's nothing people can't use as defenses, tools of unreality -- spiritual practices are no exception -- but sleep deprivation cuts to the chase. I'd say it is the single most powerful intervention of them all, and personally I find it rather dangerous based on what I saw, but the context I saw it in was totally different, as well as the goals.

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I do know a couple of taoist masters who sleep no more than 3 hours on a regular basis, but they are very VERY advanced, and they did go through a "dark night of the soul" before arriving at stellar health. Sooo dark that one has to be very sure one's life circumstances can accommodate a temporary "total eclipse" -- i.e. have enough social support and understanding of the process (and perhaps financial resources to carry one through). A retreat of this nature, undertaken in a traditional monastic setting, comes complete with these prerequisites. Embedded into "ordinary" life -- well, it depends...

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Sleeping for 2-3 hours a day during retreats could be a valid practice; but I'd be really curious to know if any traditions, either daoist or others, employ this kind of practice these days. We already know that Vitalii teaches it in his retreats, what about other modern teachers? Vitalii refers to some texts re this practice. I wonder if any modern daoist sects and/or monasteries have this kind of recommendations for their students/monks?

In my experience, meditation doesn't decrease necessity for sleep, rather makes sleep more sound and full. But my level could be low and I'm open to ideas. How about more experienced practitioners?

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Edited for clarity.

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"I'd be really curious to know if any traditions, either daoist or others, employ this kind of practice these days."

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Of course. I was actually surprised that many people thought 2 hours was abnormal. Maybe it's not pleasant, but for me it's nothing unusual to hear about. There are a few Catholic monastic traditions that only get only get 4-5 hours of sleep every night (maybe the Carmelite and Benedictine orders, but I'm not sure exactly). In the Orthodox traditions, monasteries vary between 6 hours to as low as 2 or 1, depending on the grade of their asceticism.

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Still it's a big change, for sure, and a big decision to make ;)

Edited by Dolokhov

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Daoists should have better things to do than fight verbally about lineages.

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I agree. As a rule, we should always be cultivating Heavenly things instead of tripping around earthly ones.

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30++ years ago , I was doing Kundalini Yoga with an Indian Master.

I was sleeping about 4 hours a day then.

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For those with idle curiosity, I am now sleeping about 7 hours or so a day.

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Idiotic Taoist

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~~~~~~~~~~~~ moderator message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Please refrain from such general criticism or you will be suspended

My comment was not "general criticism" at all. Reading the whole comment is "generally helpful".

Edited by bakeneko
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~~~~~~~~~~~~ moderator message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Please refrain from such general criticism or you will be suspended

~~~~~~~~~~~~ moderator message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

bakeneko has been suspended from posting for 48 hrs.

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Tao bums is a moderated, privately owned, web site; all who agree with our guiding principals are welcome to join our discussions:

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Treat other members with respect. No personal attacks.

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Moderators are present to enforce this, please abide by their decisions.

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My comment was not "general criticism" at all. Reading the whole comment is "generally helpful".

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I read the whole comment and took it in the context of the whole thread which has had numerous reports of repeated harassment of the op. There is no reason why the moderators have to put up with attacks from your original post or sarcasm from your edited post, so you get a suspension.

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I hereby apologize for not having quoted the original post referred by me then and causing some confusion. And I will not comment further in this thread.

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30++ years ago , I was doing Kundalini Yoga with an Indian Master.

I was sleeping about 4 hours a day then.

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For those with idle curiosity, I am now sleeping about 7 hours or so a day.

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Idiotic Taoist

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Interesting, when I was practicing Kundalini yoga I was also only sleeping about 4-5 hours a day. Usually from 11pm to 3:00 or 3:30am, then meditate from 4-6, and then maybe a one hour nap if I was feeling it (the best nap was always after a great morning meditation).

Edited by robmix

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