Vitalii

Daily timetable of the Quanzhen retreat

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全真清規

 

每日至五更寅時,聞開靜板響,各請洗漱,朝真禮聖。卯時早齋。辰時混坐。巳時靜鐘三通,各各靜坐,如法用功。午時赴齋 未時混坐。申時如前入靜。酉時晚叅。戌時混坐茶湯。亥時如前入靜,用功如法。子時歌詠,教演詩詞,以敵睡魔。丑時放叅,各請隨意。

 

 

 

Pure Regulations of Quanzhen

(1) Hour of yin (3–5am): The sound of the plank indicates the non-movement period is over. Everyone washes his face and rinses his mouth. Then one worships the Perfected and Sages.
(2) Hour of mao (5–7am): Morning meal.
(3) Hour of chen (7–9am): Group meditation (hunzuo 混坐).
(4) Hour of si (9–11am): “Non-movement” meditation. Each person meditates quietly (Jing zuo 靜坐) by himself.
(5) Hour of wu (11am–1pm): Noon meal.
(6) Hour of wei (1–3pm): Group meditation.
(7) Hour of shen (3–5pm): Non-movement meditation.
(8) Hour of you (5–7pm): Evening gathering.
(9) Hour of xu (7–9pm): Group meditation and offering of tea and soup.
(10) Hour of hai (9–11pm): Non-movement meditation.
(11) Hour of zi (11pm–1am): Chanting. Adepts chant poems meant to enable them to resist the demons of sleep (shuimo 睡魔). Each verse is chanted three times and no more.
(12) Hour of chou (1–3am): The gathering is dismissed. One can do whatever one wants.
Edited by Vitalii
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It sounds like they are only taking somewhere between 2 to 4 hours of sleep?

 

Yes, but only during the retreat

 

What is the source of this schedule and practice? Which period? Only meditation and chanting?

 

全真清規 (Pure Regulations of Quanzhen) - 1436~1449

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(1) Hour of yin (3–5am): The sound of the plank indicates the non-movement period is over. Everyone washes his face and rinses his mouth. Then one worships the Perfected and Sages.

(2) Hour of mao (5–7am): Morning meal.
(3) Hour of chen (7–9am): Group meditation (hunzuo 混坐).
(4) Hour of si (9–11am): “Non-movement” meditation. Each person meditates quietly (Jing zuo 靜坐) by himself.
(5) Hour of wu (11am–1pm): Noon meal.
(6) Hour of wei (1–3pm): Group meditation.
(7) Hour of shen (3–5pm): Non-movement meditation.
(8) Hour of you (5–7pm): Evening gathering.
(9) Hour of xu (7–9pm): Group meditation and offering of tea and soup.
(10) Hour of hai (9–11pm): Non-movement meditation.
(11) Hour of zi (11pm–1am): Chanting. Adepts chant poems meant to enable them to resist the demons of sleep (shuimo 睡魔). Each verse is chanted three times and no more.
(12) Hour of chou (1–3am): The gathering is dismissed. One can do whatever one wants.

 

A perfect way to kill yourself.

 

Quanzhen needs time to understand, and a real teacher to not be confused. People love to promote themselves pretending they know Quanzhen, but the reality is very different...

 

Secret of Golden Flower:

 

 

Taishang appeared magically to Donghua,
and the Way was handed on through a succession to Yan,
then to the southern and northern schools of Complete Reality,
which can be considered its full flourishing.
That movement flourished in the sense that there were a great many who followed it,
yet it declined in the sense that its mental communication deteriorated.
This has continued up to the present day, when it is extremely confused and extremely degenerate.
(translated by Thomas Cleary)

 

 

Edited by opendao
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It sounds like they are only taking somewhere between 2 to 4 hours of sleep?

 

FYI....

Meditation will replace some of the sleep that one was missing. One will be more refreshing after a meditation session than from a long period of sleep. That is one of the main purposes for meditation.

 

 

@opendao

How many people have died from meditation that you are aware of?

 

 

PS....

I prefer to use the term Dazou(打坐) for meditation is because it is most definitely includes the Taoist method of breathing which is Tu Na(吐吶).

Edited by ChiDragon
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You can do that only if you live in a monastery, and already have some practice... Otherwise,

 

 

A perfect way to kill yourself.

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You can do that only if you live in a monastery, and already have some practice... Otherwise,

 

Of course, this schedule is not for beginners.

I hold retreats with a similar schedule, but only for those my students who already have a good practical experience.

Edited by Vitalii

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Of course, this schedule is not for beginners.

I hold retreats with a similar schedule, but only for those my students who already have a good practical experience.

 

Here some people complain about legit. concerns on the TTB regarding certain systems or teachers. This is not my goal to discredit anybody here but I can not realize why some people claim to be masters without any prove of certification or achievement in Taoist arts. I asked a moderator here and I was replied that it is not ToS' administration concerns if someone legit or not. In other thread there was concern about a system of Xu Mingtan. It is well known that Vitaliy was instructor in that qigong system. The main exercise is Zhan Zhuan there and seating dazuo and visualization of red ball and MCO. That' the main source of Vitalii's "Neidan". There is much similarities. I just let other people know where this "quanzhen" is derived from. it has nothing to do with neidan at all. If I am wrong Vitaliy should bring any evidence that he has relation to Quanzhen.

Hope this post will not disappear. :)

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It is well known that Vitaliy was instructor in that qigong system. The main exercise is Zhan Zhuan there and seating dazuo and visualization of red ball and MCO. That' the main source of Vitalii's "Neidan". There is much similarities. I just let other people know where this "quanzhen" is derived from. it has nothing to do with neidan at all.

 

:blink::blink::blink: All this information about me is lie.

I've never been an instructor of Xu Mingtan system.

Antares, you do not know me, you have never been in my seminar or retreat, so you should not say that about what you do not have the slightest idea.

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So you deny that you took Xu Mintang instructor' seminar? Yes?

 

I was in Xu Mintang workshop to get more information about his system, but I've never been an instructor of Xu Mingtan system.

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It does not matter whether you were instructor or was in his workshop. The main concern that your system has much in common with this system according to information of those ones who took your seminar and that you have no lineage in Quanzhen sect. Otherwise there should be evidence for that.

 

For mods. I stop here but Vitaliy should prove his statements in relation to Quanzhen sect. Otherwise it will be like circus here. This is very sadly to watch it.

Edited by Antares

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It does not matter whether you were instructor or was in his workshop. The main concern that your system has much in common with this system according to information of those ones who took your seminar

 

All this information is lie.

There are many differences between Zhen Dao school and Xu Mingtan system.

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It is rather confusing with the Taoist terminologies when they are putted into English. For example, 全真道(Quanzhen Tao), All True Tao was commented by members of TTB that is not good English. If we drop the first character 真道(Zhen Tao), then we have "True Tao". Why should we be so concerned about the nomenclature rather than its contents? Do we always judge the book by its cover? Come on.

IMO Vitalii and Zhen Tao are legitimate.

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IMO Vitalii and Zhen Tao are legitimate.

 

How did come to this great conclusion? There is no such name of school IN CHINESE. Not even in English. Some people so trustful and they are too lazy to do proper research. Maximum they can google and then begin arguing. This is "normal" for the West this time. There are many new age schools. Hundreds. As for Vitaly just watch where he takes information: books in English and Russian, qigong seminars, internet, mixing things up and then holding retreats. Such the joke, Dragon. But I do not mind, some people need to meet somebody like that to get experience. In order to realize what is true somebody needs to know what is false first.

Edited by Antares
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How did come to this great conclusion? There is no such name of school IN CHINESE. Not even in English. Some people so trustful and they are too lazy to do proper research. Maximum they can google and then begin arguing. This is "normal" for the West this time. There are many new age schools. Hundreds. As for Vitaly just watch where he takes information: books in English and Russian, qigong seminars, internet, mixing things up and then holding retreats. Such the joke, Dragon. But I do not mind, some people need to meet somebody like that to get experience. In order to realize what is true somebody needs to know what is false first.

 

you read all the sources in Chinese?

You have a fantastic self-assurance in full ignorance of the history of Daoist schools and also do not know the Chinese language.

 

if you knew the history of Quanzhen, you would know that there are seven schools of Zhen Dao in China.

Edited by Vitalii

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Vitaly, I have no goal arguing with you. It is no of any avail. This questions were asked to you many times for many years in Russian web and you did not answer them. You just have nothing to say regarding zhendao and began to accuse me bc I do not speak Chinese. What gives you a right for that? I do not hold funny seminars and do not decieve people concerning spirituality and I must not speak Chinese. You have learnt Chinese for few years and you think it gives you rigth to mislead people teaching them doubtful qigong as Neidan? Such the joke! I have no any desire to talk to you any longer as it would be waste of time

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if you knew the history of Quanzhen, you would know that there are seven schools of Zhen Dao in China.

 

I think the seven schools of Zhen Dao that you are referring to are the schools of the seven disciples of the Wang Zhongyang(王重陽). The proper description of the schools should be identified as the "seven schools of Quanzhen Tao", 全真道; but why did you drop the first character Quan(全) in your description, Vitalli? You see how that creates a big confusion?

 

These are the seven schools of Quanzhen Tao.

Edited by ChiDragon

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The proper description of the schools should be identified as the "seven schools of Quanzhen Tao"

 

it is the case.

initially they were collectively known as "Seven School of Zhen Dao" (七真道派 or 北七真道派)

You can check this information on the Chinese Internet.

I plan to write big article regarding this topic.

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but why did you drop the first character Quan(全) in your description, Vitalli?

Because this is fake self made school. :D In the beginning he taught qigong. But then suddenly his school turned to be Neidan school after he stumbled upon taoist immortal in a Ukranian park when was doing taichi. And he had no even proper name of it in Chinese and there were only 2 words in the name of the school. Then people said to him there must be 3 characters and he added third one. ;) Also ask him about his "taichi" lineage. He can not prove his taichi lineage as well and it is easy to check where he lies.

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And he had no even proper name of it in Chinese and there were only 2 words in the name of the school. Then people said to him there must be 3 characters and he added third one. ;) Also ask him about his "taichi" lineage. He can not prove his taichi lineage as well and it is easy to check where he lies.

 

Antares, you only demonstrate your ignorance.

 

"2 words" is School of Zhen Dao (真道)

"3 words" is Zhen Dao Pai (真道派)

 

School of Zhen Dao = Zhen Dao Pai

派 translated as "school"

 

"Taiji Quan Lineage and Transmission" - this information is available on my website.

 

Antares, you do not know me; you have never been in my seminar or retreat; you did not read my website.

you are only inventing and disseminating lies and slander about me and Zhen Dao Pai.

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Antares, you only demonstrate your ignorance.

 

"2 words" is School of Zhen Dao (真道)

"3 words" is Zhen Dao Pai (真道派)

 

School of Zhen Dao = Zhen Dao Pai

派 translated as "school"

 

"Taiji Quan Lineage and Transmission" - this information is available on my website.

 

Antares, you do not know me; you have never been in my seminar or retreat; you did not read my website.

you are only inventing and disseminating lies and slander about me and Zhen Dao Pai.

 

There was only one 真道派 in Chinese history, it was a Christianity group: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Lightning

 

So stop fool people. There was no Daoist school Zhen Dao and it's impossible to find any legitimate traces in the list of schools. In that lists, Quanzhen is Quanzhen, nobody knows about Zhen Dao. And in Daozang there are a lot from Quanzhen, but nothing from ZhenDao.

 

it is the case.

initially they were collectively known as "Seven School of Zhen Dao" (七真道派 or 北七真道派)

You can check this information on the Chinese Internet.

I plan to write big article regarding this topic.

What of these 7 schools is YOUR lineage is from? Don't repeat about Ma Danyang, because it's obviously not true (based even on your teaching curriculum that is far far away from Yuxianpai's curriculum). And why you name your school as Zhen Dao if you claim a lineage from Ma Danyang?

 

Invent something else, like maybe 8th hidden Christian branch of Quanzhen. It would be fun at least.

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it is the case.

initially they were collectively known as "Seven School of Zhen Dao" (七真道派 or 北七真道派)

You can check this information on the Chinese Internet.

I plan to write big article regarding this topic.

 

七真道派 or 北七真道派 was collectively originated from the Quanzhen Tao.

七真 was referred to, 全真七子, the seven disciples of Wang Zhongyang.

道派 was referred to a "Taoist sect".

 

七真道派 was understood short for the seven schools of the Quanzhen Tao.

Technically, it was a collective term actually was saying 七真道派: The seven schools which were found by the seven disciples of the Quanzhen Tao. In Chinese is OK to drop the "全" character because it was understood mentally by the natives. However, in English was not understood due to the demand of a precise description of everything.

 

BTW 真道, 真派, 真教 are synonyms

真道派(Zhen Tao Pai) is not the proper name or synonyms for 真道(Quanzhen Tao).

 

 

I know everything you said pertaining to the Quanzhen Tao is true because I know the language but others aren't. So, please make the correction to avoid any future challenges about the legit of the Taoist sect.

Edited by ChiDragon
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