Stosh Posted October 5, 2012 Thanks guys , thats really very informative and beautifully stated stuff. Got it. Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted October 5, 2012 Well we're not dogmatic about being non dogmatic it's just a dogma hence not important so that's fine. It's all Tao any way up you look at it. ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 5, 2012 Well we're not dogmatic about being non dogmatic it's just a dogma hence not important so that's fine. It's all Tao any way up you look at it. ;-) Actually, I don't even consider it dogma because Philosophical Taoism does not have any "Thou shalt ..." nor any "Thou shalt not ..." demands but rather lessons in the form of "If you do this, this will likely happen." Just a warning but we are free to choose our course(s) of action and are aware of the possible consequences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 5, 2012 The tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao The name that can be named is not the eternal Name. Â The unnamable is the eternally real. Naming is the origin of all particular things. Â I count at least three dogmas there... that you don't consider it dogma does not make it not be dogma... as I said there be dogmas here some just don't see it... Just a warning ... well more like a friendly tip... That someone claims to be free to choose their course(s) of action and are aware of the possible consequences... does not make it so! But then, that fact that you consider it dogma does not make it dogma, especially in my mind. I didn't really need your friendly tip because I already know the truty and that is that there is no dogma in Philosophical Taoism. Â That you calim to know doesn't mean that you know anything according to anyone else's opinion. And yes, their opinion is their truth, not your truth. Â So, just because you say you know doesn't mean that you know. And just because you say something doesn't mean that it is true for anyone esle. Â How do you like tose beans? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
XieJia Posted October 5, 2012 excuse me; Â English is not my first language here but what's actually a dogma? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted October 5, 2012 From wikipedia Dogma is the official system of belief or doctrine held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.[1] It serves as part of the primary basis of an ideology or belief system, and it can not be changed or discarded without affecting the very system's paradigm, or the ideology itself. Although it generally refers to religious beliefs that are accepted regardless of evidence, they can refer to acceptable opinions of philosophers or philosophical schools, public decrees, or issued decisions of political authorities.[2] Â Viator , would you give an example of Taoist dogma as you see it, to be to solidify the subject? Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted October 5, 2012 Viator , If you have been ,to a degree, religiously Taoist ,, what is it that characterizes that aspect? Stosh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted October 5, 2012 A dogma is a dog's mother. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 5, 2012 You may think you know the truth but do you actually know it? do you reflect the truth in what you post? Go take a look at the evince and ensure that what be validates what you think... who knows maybe this time you will learn the truth faster... Of course I know the truth. That is why I am disagreeing with your non-truth. I would never want anyone to think that what you are saying is the truth because it is not. Â No, you go take a look at yourself in a mirror. Are you really who you think you are? Perhaps you are really someone else but you don't like what you see so you are pretending to know everything but sadly most of what you think you know you really don't know because you are not even you in the first place. Â ET, I have already learned the truth and that is why I am in so many disagreements with you. NOw really, you don't know everything. In fact, I will suggest that you really know very little and you are making stuff up and presenting it here on the forum for the only purpose of trying to impress others. So take your dog and go see your Ma. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 5, 2012 I learned a while back that what I tell others applies to me as well... so I am very careful what I tell others... If you think:' Of course I know the truth'! and you are in error you will not see the error you be in... and will likely get upset and disagree with those who do know and tell the truth. If you think:'Let me validate what I think with the truth'! one will find the the truth ... and if one needs to correct oneself one will do that... I want everyone to think what be the truth. This enables beings to choose based on knowledge rather than ignorance. Â I wonder who is pretending to know and who actually knows? Perhaps I am not pretending to know as you claim I am... perhaps it is someone else who is pretending to know... why? because they choose to pretend to be right rather than choose to be right by embracing what be right... Â If you disagree with me when I tell the truth, those that make you be right or wrong? But I am bound to say the same thing back to you, again. It is you who is wrong and will not open your mind to see the truth. How can anyone add any tea to your cup when it is already full and even overflowing? Â To know the truth has nothing to do with what ET thinks. That is a given fact. So no matter how hard you try to show others "your" truth you will fail just as many time as you try because you do not allow them to have their truths even when they are in agreement with your truths because you do not have any "truths". Â Empty your cup!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) Of course I know the truth. That is why I am disagreeing with your non-truth. I would never want anyone to think that what you are saying is the truth because it is not.  No, you go take a look at yourself in a mirror. Are you really who you think you are? Perhaps you are really someone else but you don't like what you see so you are pretending to know everything but sadly most of what you think you know you really don't know because you are not even you in the first place.  ET, I have already learned the truth and that is why I am in so many disagreements with you. NOw really, you don't know everything. In fact, I will suggest that you really know very little and you are making stuff up and presenting it here on the forum for the only purpose of trying to impress others. So take your dog and go see your Ma.  hahaha, that was funny  What do you think is the best way to teach others truth. Words / deeds?  I once saw this panda who cuts trough bamboo, he totally spilled my cup empty by showing this to me. At first: I could not do it, I didn't know how to do it, I know he could teach me to do it. I was desperate. After much insisting that he fill my cup with special knowledge, I gave up all hope and my cup would remain empty forever... I cried for the first time and let go of all hope. I had a nice nap though.  When I woke up I approached the bamboo again, I suddenly felt free from trying to break it. I was at peace with the fact that the bamboo was not to be broken, but to remain strong and durable. With this new found love for my enemy I was able to see it and feel it with whole my being. The bamboo taught me how to break it. I broke it, with my love, but with its permission I broke it. The panda master? He never said a word. Only showed me how he did it, that I may gain the desire to do it aswell and loose all hope of succeeding. That is how the wise sages teach by paradox, help you unlearn what you have learned.  Student: "How is it that you know how to do this?" Master: "How is that you do not?" Edited October 5, 2012 by Everything Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 5, 2012 Nice story. I liked that. Â What do you think is the best way to teach others truth. Words / deeds? Â Deeds for sure. Even when I was in the Army I led by example most of the time. And really, that is the best way for me to learn too. Â Student: "How is it that you know how to do this?" Master: "How is it that you do not?" Â The perfect response to the question. Â I think that once we are ready to learn we can learn much more than we ever thought we could. Â (Please dont' take that as an offer for you to teach me something, Okay?) Â Â Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Everything Posted October 5, 2012 (Please dont' take that as an offer for you to teach me something, Okay?) Hahaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted October 5, 2012 Or I allow them their truths when they are true... That is the closest you have come to the truth in a number of days. The only thing I would add is that you do not have to allow them to be true. An individual's truth is the truth regardless of what anyone else says until that individual is willing to give up their truth for a better truth. Â My truths are not yours necessarily and your truths are not my truths necessarily. Whatever I allow myself I must also allow every other person. If I deny anything I must allow the other person to deny anything they wish to deny. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
et-thoughts Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) . Edited December 11, 2012 by et-thoughts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FÅ« Yue Posted October 5, 2012 Many people resort to impunity by demanding proof as a way to avoid the real discussion... and the real changes required. As I have sort of mentioned in other posts, what you believe and hold depends on what you believe and hold. no amount of evidence ever suffices to deter a theist. its a bit esoteric those who know know and those who don't know well don't know. Â Â That sounds like a nice excuse to avoid adding any actual substance to what you say. Don't expect people to have a 'real discussion' on baseless claims, or change themselves for a 'truth' you can't clearly explain in a way they can understand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
