fanatical Buddhists

[Jetsun]

p.s. Lineage helps you at the time of death as well.

 

How do you know that?

Edited July 10, 2011 by Jetsun

[Vajrahridaya]

How do you know that?

 

Go deeper into meditation, have more revelatory experiences that advance your perception of time and space, do transcend the reality of the senses while incorporating them.

 

All this is possible, forget about all your excuses, doubt your doubts. There is more to life than meets the 5 senses.

[C T]

How do you know that?

Its true. I have had the humbling honor of assisting in a dying environment (some years back) within a Buddhist context, and can vouch for it. I am sure the same form of dignified support is offered in many other circles and traditions as well, especially evident among indigenous peoples.

 

Its hard to die alone. Very hard. A lot of fear and confusion surrounds a person as death draws closer and closer. The passing is very much helped when the dying person is given dignified and loving support all the way.

Edited July 10, 2011 by CowTao

[Vajrahridaya]

Hello Vaj,

 

I think most Buddhists here disagree with your views of Buddhism, they are just actual Buddhists, so rather than say this, they follow the teachings of Buddha and don't criticize you.

 

You're wrong actually. We talk in pm's, they just don't want the back lash that I get.

 

It's true that not all of them agree with the way I go about it, but none the less...

 

The view that I speak of is standard Buddhism as taught by Gotama, advanced in the Mahayana, catalyzed in the Vajrayana and perfected in the Dzogchen.

 

If you go to Buddhist forums, you'll find that this is true.

 

Those that follow your lead are most likely not actual Buddhists, but rather people who have a misunderstanding of what Buddhism teachers or have twisted it to serve their own behavior. This is the problem I see with many fanatics, they justify their actions, take minimal responsibility, even then often giving some excuse for that, and essentially do whatever they want to do under the auspice of Buddha's teachings.

 

Hey, I guess if demonizing me makes you think you're right and keeps you in your comfort zone? It must be true, right?

 

What you say is clearly subjective and defensive. Talk about judgmental and mocking. Good job buddy!

Edited July 10, 2011 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

Its true. I have had the humbling honor of assisting in a dying environment (some years back) within a Buddhist context, and can vouch for it. I am sure the same form of dignified support is offered in many other circles and traditions as well, especially evident among indigenous peoples.

 

Yes, one of my close Hindu friends who has been a practitioner of Tantric Shaivism for well over 40 years died a couple decades ago on the operation table, he was covered though, his lineage came to him, he had some amazing experiences which catalyzed his faith and previous experiences in meditation, then he was brought back to life, but never to be the same again.

 

Its hard to die alone. Very hard. A lot of fear and confusion surrounds a person as death draws closer and closer. The passing is very much helped when the dying person is given dignified and loving support all the way.

 

Yes, with chanting of sacred mantras from people who have experienced their power. A Sangham is very important.

[C T]

Yes, one of my close Hindu friends who has been a practitioner of Tantric Shaivism for well over 40 years died a couple decades ago on the operation table, he was covered though, his lineage came to him, he had some amazing experiences which catalyzed his faith and previous experiences in meditation, then he was brought back to life, but never to be the same again.

 

 

 

Yes, with chanting of sacred mantras from people who have experienced their power. A Sangham is very important.

Amazing!

 

How was he brought back to life, VJ? Medically?

 

 

YES! _/\_

 

 

-- _{om ah hung benza guru pema siddhi hung} --

[lifeforce]

Some Buddhists here are not fanatics, (thankfully) the rest do Buddhism a dis-service with their know it all pretenses and deluges of blabbering one-up-man-ship in threads they seemingly feel the need to set everyone straight on. (such is sick regardless of who or what sect they quote, including co-opting words of the historic Buddha)

 

Om

 

I agree. These forums are becoming tedious with constant Buddhist propaganda and sectarian fundamentalism.

It's a shame really because some quality is found on these boards. You may have to look really hard through the forest of Buddhist related threads though.

[Vajrahridaya]

Amazing!

 

How was he brought back to life, VJ? Medically?

 

 

YES! _/\_

 

 

-- _{om ah hung benza guru pema siddhi hung} --

 

Yes, truly amazing. Yes, medically. I know a number of people who have experienced this and I've experienced things in meditation which make me have more faith than doubt in such truths.

[C T]

Yes, truly amazing. Yes, medically. I know a number of people who have experienced this and I've experienced things in meditation which make me have more faith than doubt in such truths.

O... one more question: Could you please give a small elaboration on what is meant by 'never the same again...' ?

 

Thanks, bro

[Jetsun]

Its true. I have had the humbling honor of assisting in a dying environment (some years back) within a Buddhist context, and can vouch for it. I am sure the same form of dignified support is offered in many other circles and traditions as well, especially evident among indigenous peoples.

 

Its hard to die alone. Very hard. A lot of fear and confusion surrounds a person as death draws closer and closer. The passing is very much helped when the dying person is given dignified and loving support all the way.

 

Dignified support when you are dying is all good, but you don't know when you are going to die and ultimately you are on your own when you come to leave your body and you don't know what is going to happen, there comes a point when no other human can help you in any way. I have heard all that matters then is your level of compassion, all your powers, attainments, and lineage support is all worthless.

[Vajrahridaya]

O... one more question: Could you please give a small elaboration on what is meant by 'never the same again...' ?

 

Thanks, bro

 

Sure, he became more aware of the subtlety of life, far more intuitive, as in... deeply psychic to a wondrous degree. He definitely has powers of perception which transcend the 5 senses as evidenced over and over again with my dealings with him. I know this as I was his personal attendant. He has muscular dystrophy. His entire spiritual path just deepened incredibly, like quantum leaps. Even the pictures of before and after the death experience there is noticeable difference in the state of his eyes, the power in his aura. He is known in this particular Sangham as being very enlightened. I lived with him, even though he's too theistic for my taste, lol. Funny, I actually got into readings of the 84 Buddhist Mahasiddhas while working for him and started asking about Buddhism and he kept kind of putting me off. But, none the less, the man is highly realized in his chosen lineage. A very deep being with wondrous love, compassion and insight, though a little hard headed, lol! He's just very disciplined, as he had to be, his life was deeply regimented and probably still is. I haven't talked to him for about 5 years or so, but I've known him since 95' and worked as his personal attendant for 22 months or so. A grueling and very self liberating job without him being a great yogi with specific disciplines that I had to be his body for as well.

 

Anyway, he's highly realized.

[Vajrahridaya]

Dignified support when you are dying is all good, but you don't know when you are going to die and ultimately you are on your own when you come to leave your body and you don't know what is going to happen, there comes a point when no other human can help you in any way. I have heard all that matters then is your level of compassion, all your powers, attainments, and lineage support is all worthless.

 

There are stories of Masters who knew exactly when they were going to die long before it happened. Also, if you read autobiographies of Indian or Tibetan masters, they talk about the power to follow a person into death and help them through it with the powers of their mind.

 

Also, when I say lineage, I not only mean living, but those that are on the other side waiting for you to help guide. Those that have already died. This is the power of lineage.

 

Reading Autobiographies of Indian and Tibetan Siddhas is very helpful in coming to an understanding about this, even if just intellectually... it helps.

[C T]

Dignified support when you are dying is all good, but you don't know when you are going to die and ultimately you are on your own when you come to leave your body and you don't know what is going to happen, there comes a point when no other human can help you in any way. I have heard all that matters then is your level of compassion, all your powers, attainments, and lineage support is all worthless.

Its sad when people have to die suddenly, and without any buffer to make the transition less traumatic than it already is. Many do in fact die this way, and when you see the faces of those who met with sudden, violent deaths and do a comparison with those who have generated the merits to pass on within an integrated, reassuring surrounding, you will see the difference in both contexts.

 

Naturally, on a more ultimate level, we all leave the physical plane alone. That is only one side of the deal. With the right support, it gets 'easier' upon entering the other side.

 

I can recommend a very insightful book here if you are interested to explore the death process further -

The Illustrated Tibetan Book of the Dead by Stephen Hodge and Martin Boord.

http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Tibetan-Book-Dead-Reference/dp/0806964316

 

A handy reference for those who want to go prepared. (no pun intended).

Edited July 10, 2011 by CowTao

[Vajrahridaya]

Nice CowTao. I want to read that book too!

 

Now it's time for a Ganapuja in Toronto! See you guys later tonight! Argue nicely now... ya hear?

[steve]

 

I can recommend a very insightful book here if you are interested to explore the death process further -

 

Another good book about the dying (and living) process is Mind Beyond Death by Dzogchen Ponlop. Buddhists get way too dogmatic regarding death and what comes after for my tastes but it's still a worthwhile book.

[C T]

Another good book about the dying (and living) process is Mind Beyond Death by Dzogchen Ponlop. Buddhists get way too dogmatic regarding death and what comes after for my tastes but it's still a worthwhile book.

Thanks Steve. The next time i get to a buddhist bookshop i will check the book out.

 

Actually i think its more than mere dogmatism... Buddhists take the death/transitional process rather seriously. One would hope others do too.

Edited July 10, 2011 by CowTao

[Aaron]

You're wrong actually. We talk in pm's, they just don't want the back lash that I get.

 

It's true that not all of them agree with the way I go about it, but none the less...

 

The view that I speak of is standard Buddhism as taught by Gotama, advanced in the Mahayana, catalyzed in the Vajrayana and perfected in the Dzogchen.

 

If you go to Buddhist forums, you'll find that this is true.

 

 

 

Hey, I guess if demonizing me makes you think you're right and keeps you in your comfort zone? It must be true, right?

 

What you say is clearly subjective and defensive. Talk about judgmental and mocking. Good job buddy!

 

 

Hello Vaj,

 

I'm not demonizing you, I'm making a point. I'll paraphrase a line from a show I watched with my brother the other night, "If a kindergartner bites a child, then bites another one the next week, well people are going to start to think of the kid as a biter." If you continually behave in a certain way, people begin to think of you in regards to how you behave. I'm not the most moderate person, I admit, but I do hold to the notion that I have no right to dismiss or belittle anyone's beliefs. I try to be respectful whenever I can and accept responsibility when I'm wrong.

 

You are a nice guy, but I look at what you claim to have achieved and how you actually act and the two seem to be way off base. One who has achieved such marvels as traveling in astral form to different planets, remembering numerous past lives, and attained heightened degrees of enlightenment should be able to see how much discord his actions bring to others. He should understand that he is behaving in a way that is very self-involved, that though he may believe he is doing this altruistically, that most people seem to view it as a sort of fanatical behavior instead.

 

Also your repeated avoidance of the topic of right speech and right action confuses me. You either say I don't understand what it is, or misdirect the conversation towards another topic, or just ignore it all together. This kind of behavior tells me that you are not accepting responsibility for your own behavior and that you have a skewed understanding of both paths. Right View may be the most glamorous of the paths, but it is worthless unless you follow the other seven, not just by word of mouth, but through actual practice.

 

I am getting a bit confused because it seems like people repeatedly point this out to you, not just me, and you repeatedly seem to be unable to understand or accept your actions for what they are. (And I am more than willing to bet that you wont now either.)

 

I don't want to argue with you about this, I would just like to see you lighten up a little, and not take it all so seriously, because it's not that serious. If you think it is, then maybe it's time for you to step back and take another look.

 

Aaron

Edited July 10, 2011 by Twinner

[ralis]

 

Argue nicely now... ya hear?

 

You are telling someone else to argue nicely?

[steve]

Thanks Steve. The next time i get to a buddhist bookshop i will check the book out.

 

Actually i think its more than mere dogmatism... Buddhists take the death/transitional process rather seriously. One would hope others do too.

Dogma is the established doctrine of a religion. Religionists take their dogma very seriously, I assure you.

Tibetan Buddhists are very dogmatic when it comes to the bardo states and all such constructs surrounding death and transitions.

All of this is laid out in great detail.

You may say this is not dogma or dogmatic but I think that would be disingenuous.

Then again, the way our minds work is such that what I believe is truth, what you believe is dogma.

 

Why do we take life and death so seriously?

I think there should be equal measures of seriousness and levity.

Because in the end, it is all an illusion anyway, isn't it?

[Marblehead]

Because in the end, it is all an illusion anyway, isn't it?

 

You guys almost have me convinced that life is but an illusion, but not quite. Hehehe.

 

But yeah, it is only temporary.

[steve]

You guys almost have me convinced that life is but an illusion, but not quite. Hehehe.

 

But yeah, it is only temporary.

I agree with you.

To call it an illusion is holding onto a view, an image, a definition of what life is.

It implies that I think I know something about the nature of being.

That is false.

Best to just smile.

Hehehe!

[Ya Mu]

Yes, one of my close Hindu friends who has been a practitioner of Tantric Shaivism for well over 40 years died a couple decades ago on the operation table, he was covered though, his lineage came to him, he had some amazing experiences which catalyzed his faith and previous experiences in meditation, then he was brought back to life, but never to be the same again. ...

For the record, in case anyone doesn't know, I am not a fanatical Buddhist (title of thread) but do follow many Buddhist truths.

 

Yes, knowing the death process definitely changes a person.

I agree with you about Lineage and death.

 

Most people are very afraid of dying. In our medical qigong we have a special method to assist this process. It is SO awesome because it brings about total peace; the transition is then natural and easy.

[Birch]

Dogma is the established doctrine of a religion. Religionists take their dogma very seriously, I assure you.

Tibetan Buddhists are very dogmatic when it comes to the bardo states and all such constructs surrounding death and transitions.

All of this is laid out in great detail.

You may say this is not dogma or dogmatic but I think that would be disingenuous.

Then again, the way our minds work is such that what I believe is truth, what you believe is dogma.

 

Why do we take life and death so seriously?

I think there should be equal measures of seriousness and levity.

Because in the end, it is all an illusion anyway, isn't it?

 

"Because in the end, it is all an illusion anyway, isn't it?"

 

No, but your illusion about it is

[Vajrahridaya]

Also your repeated avoidance of the topic of right speech and right action confuses me.

 

I just don't see it the same as you. That should be fine. We are here debating views, it happens all over this site, not just me, but everywhere about all sorts of things. People are arguing and debating and things are coming out, and then there are hugs and understandings happen, more information comes out due to friction. It's a party for sharing, and debating, it's great I think!

 

Please, nit pick yourself and either debate view with me or move on.

 

Thanks.

[Vajrahridaya]

For the record, in case anyone doesn't know, I am not a fanatical Buddhist (title of thread) but do follow many Buddhist truths.

 

Yes, knowing the death process definitely changes a person.

I agree with you about Lineage and death.

 

Most people are very afraid of dying. In our medical qigong we have a special method to assist this process. It is SO awesome because it brings about total peace; the transition is then natural and easy.

 

Thanks Ya Mu, yes, in traditional Taoism I know lineage is very important, which is why I looooove Taoism! Also yes, I am also intrigued at how Taoism treats the very same topics that Vajrayana treats. I like the language. Supposedly there is a history of inter-communication between Chinese Taoism and Indian as well as Tibetan Vajrayana, a friendly sharing of ideas.