dmattwads

How different does seeking Tao make you?

Recommended Posts

I've been increasingly curious lately about how much seeking the Tao, doing cultivation, ect... makes you different from the rest of society? More and more I just feel like that I have very little in common with the average person. I feel more and more that regular society and me do not really mix well at all. Is becoming "different" from most people a natural consequence of seeking Tao? If so, how so?

 

*edit: found this article very interesting. :-)

 

http://www.taoism.net/enter.htm

Edited by dmattwads

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

which article there.....there are many?

 

i live 8km up a mountain....society is toxic and i just don't fit in anymore.....this i accept and am at peace with.

 

 

 

www.waykiwayki.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

which article there.....there are many?

 

i live 8km up a mountain....society is toxic and i just don't fit in anymore.....this i accept and am at peace with.

 

 

 

www.waykiwayki.com

 

If you wouldn't mind I would be interested in hearing your story about how you went through this realization and process?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi there,

 

i lived in a mystery school for a while (hermetic path) and did a 50 day silent fast in a pyramid........then after this i went up a volcano and did a 1on1 100 day process that again involved a 50 day silence in solitude.....there was really no way back after these experiences. i avoid groups now as i just feel too much, and i dont enter society too much as i find it pretty toxic (energetically). The current way humans live on the planet is soon to change (the system is crumbling), and i see little need to be a part of it.

 

i like nature, meditation, reading, and writing, and very little else seems to add to my energy.

 

 

:-)

 

 

www.waykiwayki.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been increasingly curious lately about how much seeking the Tao, doing cultivation, ect... makes you different from the rest of society? More and more I just feel like that I have very little in common with the average person. I feel more and more that regular society and me do not really mix well at all. Is becoming "different" from most people a natural consequence of seeking Tao? If so, how so?

As you already know, I often feel like a bit of an oddball (because of my practice?).

 

In particular, there is some chaos between the recognition that "the people that I believe in are the people that exist in my head" and the other recognition that "nonetheless, other people do still exist".

 

In other words, once I chose to see "other people" as a fiction, then I now have nothing to fill the gap. Other people still appear and disappear, and I believe that they do, in fact, exist, in some form or another. But they are not what I've been relating to; that's been my story of other people. Without the story, I no longer have the same reference as before, and it does make many relationships difficult. I think, in time, that it will work itself out, but the transition is clumsy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is becoming "different" from most people a natural consequence of seeking Tao? If so, how so?

 

http://www.taoism.net/enter.htm

 

For what it is worth here, I was targeted by a conservative religious culture as an outsider from as far back I can remember. I had the audacity to think I was somehow just like Jesus when I was about 6 years old. Then I made the mistake of telling someone in my family about this and it was all downhill from there. That was many decades ago. Many. After some decades, I even went through a period of trying with real diligence to fit into some damn place of relative comfort...which of course did not work. I gave up on that and began to have satisfaction but not constant awareness of it. Finally after many years I came across a tradition where I recognized myself. In that tradition I soon came across the 10 Oxherding Pictures which showed the way back into society - any society at all actually and including the very one I was estranged from. It is going to take more of de-conditioning to accomplish the tenth picture at 100%. Well at least now I know what it means and have a sense of the implications. If you are interested, here is a link to the 10 Oxherding Pictures.

 

From the link:

 

"The twelfth century monk Guo-an Shi-yuan (also known as Kuo-an Shih-yuan or Kakuan

Shien) revised and expanded upon the traditional Taoist story of the ox and the oxherd by

creating a series of ten images and accompanying verses to simultaneously depict and

narrate this well-known tale. Guo-an’s version subsequently became one of the most

popular and enduring versions of the parable."

 

http://www.exeas.org/resources/pdf/oxherding.pdf

Edited by 2netis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you already know, I often feel like a bit of an oddball (because of my practice?).

 

In particular, there is some chaos between the recognition that "the people that I believe in are the people that exist in my head" and the other recognition that "nonetheless, other people do still exist".

 

In other words, once I chose to see "other people" as a fiction, then I now have nothing to fill the gap. Other people still appear and disappear, and I believe that they do, in fact, exist, in some form or another. But they are not what I've been relating to; that's been my story of other people. Without the story, I no longer have the same reference as before, and it does make many relationships difficult. I think, in time, that it will work itself out, but the transition is clumsy.

 

Sure it is. But if you would get right with your own story IMO/IME you might find things less clumsy overall. :)

What I mean (and what I'm trying to do better insofar as people and their socially acceptable face will let me are concerned) is see them in more dimensions than I did before. And to do that I've found it helps to see myself in more dimensions. And it also helps to talk to them and listen to them (and all that crap).

 

If I take my "mother" for example, she was a particularly awful one, but she was also quite good at other things - not that any of them helped me when necessary, but you get my drift?

 

What I mean is the gap gets filled quite heartily once you consider it. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to feel much more isolated from the "common" people when I was only starting out cultivation. Practicing SFQ has helped me be more open and less judgmental. I think it depends on the practice, but if you're on the healer's path then it doesn't make much sense if the practice makes you feel you don't want to contaminate your energy by hanging around the regular folks :lol:

 

I'm not saying there's a problem with isolating yourself if that is your path. Even if you plan to be a healer amongst the people it's good to have periods of solitude where you can refine your Qi and spirit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to feel much more isolated from the "common" people when I was only starting out cultivation. Practicing SFQ has helped me be more open and less judgmental. I think it depends on the practice, but if you're on the healer's path then it doesn't make much sense if the practice makes you feel you don't want to contaminate your energy by hanging around the regular folks :lol:

 

I'm not saying there's a problem with isolating yourself if that is your path. Even if you plan to be a healer amongst the people it's good to have periods of solitude where you can refine your Qi and spirit.

 

I don't feel judgmental at all, but I do feel like people don't get me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't feel judgmental at all, but I do feel like people don't get me.

 

It really helps if you have a friend or two who you share this understanding with. Then it's less of a problem to relate to the levels more "ordinary" people move at. I'm in the music business and while I don't have many friends who actually cultivate (I do have one), most of them are interested in Qigong and the Tao and like to talk about "deeper" or more abstract levels of being. Even my record company boss does yoga and borrowed my copy of "Magus of Java" :)

 

I currently have a girlfriend who doesn't believe in any "esoteric" stuff. It's no problem, we can very well relate on those levels we both know and share. I appreciate her straight forwardness and her earthy warmth :wub:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see how initially moving toward Dao could have the effect of distancing oneself from the rest of humanity. On the other hand, I'd like to hope that as one reaches closer to Dao that s/he finds how one is truly connected with humanity.

 

To use the Buddhist saying,

Before I studied Zen, mountains were mountains, and water was water.

After studying Zen for some time, mountains were no longer mountains, and water was no longer water.

But now, after studying Zen longer, mountains are just mountains, and water is just water

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure it is. But if you would get right with your own story IMO/IME you might find things less clumsy overall. :)

What I mean (and what I'm trying to do better insofar as people and their socially acceptable face will let me are concerned) is see them in more dimensions than I did before. And to do that I've found it helps to see myself in more dimensions. And it also helps to talk to them and listen to them (and all that crap).

Totally agreed.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting topic. Troubling in a way too, at least for me.

 

I must first say that I never sought out Tao. Tao sought me out. Yes, it presented itself to me a number of times before I realized what it was and that I was a part of it. (Long story but it doesn't matter.)

 

But it is true that I am different from the majority but then I am the same none-the-less.

 

What I mean is that I live by my rules (Toaist Philosophy) but I have no expectations for others to live as I do.

 

When I am by myself in my little world I am what I am. When I go out into the world of others I am still what I am but I try to be one of the 'others' so not to cause any anguish. What I mean is that I try to interact with others so to not cause conflict. Sure, I still hold to my principles but in the most part my principles apply to my inner being and not necessarily the external.

 

All is Tao. The way of all things is different between things. This applies to different people as well. People are different; born different, have had different experiences, have different belief systems. I cannot expect others to view life as I do else I must allow them the right to expect me to view life as they do.

 

Yes, that Zen Buddhist saying is very applicable: First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is. Physical reality is what it is. We must accept this truth (small truth, I have no big TRUTHS). But that doesn't mean we have to accept all truths into our life. (My concept of "useful/useless".)

 

So I think that we can be different while also being the same. We don't have to find a cave high up on a mountain and hide away. We can be 'one of them' and still be our 'Self'.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have noticed the pervasive demand that society has forced on me in terms of schedule and time. Not that I have mastered wu wei (not even close), but there is an urge to live more in concert with natural rhythms and not someone's forced clock driven schedule. Being unemployed and enjoying "semi retirement" has given me a little taste of working with my own internal clock. Must say it agrees with me, too bad it doesn't pay the bills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to mix up Zen and Taoist thoughts in my practice. But when I'm more 'on the path' I'm mellower, letting things be as they are. Less rage, less thinking, more sympathy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to mix up Zen and Taoist thoughts in my practice. But when I'm more 'on the path' I'm mellower, letting things be as they are. Less rage, less thinking, more sympathy.

 

Yea that makes sense as Zen and Taoism seem very similar. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I am by myself in my little world I am what I am. When I go out into the world of others I am still what I am but I try to be one of the 'others' so not to cause any anguish. What I mean is that I try to interact with others so to not cause conflict. Sure, I still hold to my principles but in the most part my principles apply to my inner being and not necessarily the external.

 

All is Tao. The way of all things is different between things. This applies to different people as well. People are different; born different, have had different experiences, have different belief systems. I cannot expect others to view life as I do else I must allow them the right to expect me to view life as they do.

 

Yes, that Zen Buddhist saying is very applicable: First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is. Physical reality is what it is. We must accept this truth (small truth, I have no big TRUTHS). But that doesn't mean we have to accept all truths into our life. (My concept of "useful/useless".)

 

So I think that we can be different while also being the same. We don't have to find a cave high up on a mountain and hide away. We can be 'one of them' and still be our 'Self'.

Very well said, as usual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea I'm just starting to feel very different lately, different from society and different from how I'm used to feeling. My food tolerences are changing, I'm really tired, feel kind of disoriented, and just a bit "off". I'm not really sure why though I have a few theories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea I'm just starting to feel very different lately, different from society and different from how I'm used to feeling. My food tolerences are changing, I'm really tired, feel kind of disoriented, and just a bit "off". I'm not really sure why though I have a few theories.

 

I hear you on the food tolerance thing. As the body gets more healthy it seems to develop more sensitivity towards food.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea I'm just starting to feel very different lately, different from society and different from how I'm used to feeling. My food tolerences are changing, I'm really tired, feel kind of disoriented, and just a bit "off". I'm not really sure why though I have a few theories.

 

Too much fruit?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As you already know, I often feel like a bit of an oddball (because of my practice?).

 

In particular, there is some chaos between the recognition that "the people that I believe in are the people that exist in my head" and the other recognition that "nonetheless, other people do still exist".

 

In other words, once I chose to see "other people" as a fiction, then I now have nothing to fill the gap. Other people still appear and disappear, and I believe that they do, in fact, exist, in some form or another. But they are not what I've been relating to; that's been my story of other people. Without the story, I no longer have the same reference as before, and it does make many relationships difficult. I think, in time, that it will work itself out, but the transition is clumsy.

 

How does this make relatiohships difficult? If there is nothing there to fill the gap, if there is difficulty, there may still be something that lingers, no?

 

The experience of "no other", is actually some of the most profound states you may be having in your life. But its still an experience. My own difficulty with other people stems most often from my own best intentions and beliefs.

 

There are other egos, and thus you are different as a sincere practitioner: It makes you aware of the difference between being tuned into the universal energy in the moment, and what the ego wants; safety, specialness, realization, immortality, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New development KK? (I've been following your personal story and SFQ since you've been sharing.) Best to you and your comingling of energies... :)

 

Hmm maybe I should start a thread "The King's personal progress in healing & romance?" :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites