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John Zen

Non-ejaculatory Orgasms

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I understand that Orgasm and Ejaculation are in fact not the same thing (for males), and that you can train your body to have the orgasms without any emissions. This can be beneficial because the body uses very much energy to produce sperm, and if you can keep the sperm inside of you, sooner or later that energy can go towards other things.

 

(Some of that may not be exactly right, and if you think otherwise please elaborate on it...) But that is kind of aside from the main point, I guess...

 

Anyways, many times that I've read about these things, the writings will generally say to contract the PC muscle when you feel yourself getting close. I feel like when ejaculating though, I feel the muscle contract and almost push the stuff out. So my experience tells me that contraction pushes out, but all of these writings say that contraction pulls up and in. And to be honest, I feel that when I am ready to come and I try to squeeze, it's completely un-natural and almost dangerous if I were to try to hard.

 

I think that I would be better off trying to relax the muscle and keep it from squeezing, but I don't know, that's why I am asking for help.

 

Can any bums who have walked down this way help me along it?

 

May light enter your life.

Edited by John Zen

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"(for males)" was a little ignorant... most women actually will tell you that orgasm and ejaculation are not the same thing.

 

The difference is, orgasm is the energy flowing and surging intensely through your body, while ejaculation is the releasing of this energy through the urethra and out the glans.

 

By training, without releasing the energy, you can experience multiple orgasms.

 

 

The deal is you must understand the breath.

 

 

 

The four innate stages of the cycle.

 

 

Inhale, hold, relax, exhale.

 

"pushing" "pulling" "releasing", since relax is not so much an action as the lack of any action, an inaction.

 

"Squeezing it in" builds up energy, "squeezing it out" attempts to push that energy out. (careful, if you arent stimulated, you could pee and no matter what, you will be pushing your sphincter out, beware!)

relaxing results in different affects on the body at different points of buildup.

 

there is a point between "squeezing in" and relaxing that "holds" the energy, and prolongs the sensation, neither advancing nor retreating.

 

To reach it you must learn how to balance your cycle of 4.

 

 

In terms of physics, consider inertia, the longer you "squeeze in" the more effort you must apply to "squeeze out" to reach "hold" or "relax" and vice versa.

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Yes, you're on the right track John Zen.

 

If you want to have multiple orgasms, I suggest reading up on the experts: women!

 

While it's now commonly known that women have the capacity to have multiple orgasms, there are still women who don't have multiple orgasms, and even some women who have never had a full orgasm at all.

 

I suggest reading up on articles that help women achieve multiple orgasms, the same rules generally apply to men. Try to stay relaxed, try to feel pleasure circulating all throughout your body. Don't try to rush, which is difficult considering that most people are taught that masturbation is a no-no, and masturbation, being the best form of practice, is where guy normally learn what gets them off fastest so they don't get caught, so they never learn how to prolong or enhance the experience. So aside from learning a new skill set, you gotta unlearn your old one!

 

This lady has two good videos: one and two

 

Now as far as things like "locking" and "contracting muscles" and things like that, well, a lot of that stuff has been taken out of context. Those are techniques suggested to use once you get past the point of no return, that keep you "in the game". However, the method of having multiple orgasm does not involve going past the point of no return- those techniques are last ditch efforts which, basically, are how you deal with your failure, and are NOT supposed to be used as the primary method of how to have multiple ejaculations.

 

Relax. Also, pay attention to your body and how it responds. Eventually you will get a very good feel of all the muscles involved in the process, and then you can gain control of them. So you reach a point where you have a good feeling of all the muscles and areas involved in orgasm, and learn to not involve the muscles involved in ejaculation.

 

Basically, it's just like learn to control any muscle group that isn't used daily- at first you don't feel anything in the area, most people tell you that you can't voluntarily control the area, then you start to feel it, then you work the muscles, then they get toned, then you can control the area at will. In my experience, the only way you are going to do that is through observation and feeling, which are aided immensely by relaxation.

 

Also, Stoner Shadow Wolf makes great points as well that you should consider in the process as well. Too relaxed, and you'll lose the arousal!

Edited by Sloppy Zhang

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Even without ejaculation, orgasm will cause a loss of energy. The energy dispersal of jing qi is the orgasm and thats why it gives some satisfaction and pleasure. It might not be a big issue , but it can effect any energy work you may be doing.

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Yes, you're on the right track John Zen.

 

If you want to have multiple orgasms, I suggest reading up on the experts: women!

 

While it's now commonly known that women have the capacity to have multiple orgasms, there are still women who don't have multiple orgasms, and even some women who have never had a full orgasm at all.

 

I suggest reading up on articles that help women achieve multiple orgasms, the same rules generally apply to men. Try to stay relaxed, try to feel pleasure circulating all throughout your body. Don't try to rush, which is difficult considering that most people are taught that masturbation is a no-no, and masturbation, being the best form of practice, is where guy normally learn what gets them off fastest so they don't get caught, so they never learn how to prolong or enhance the experience. So aside from learning a new skill set, you gotta unlearn your old one!

 

This lady has two good videos: one and two

 

Now as far as things like "locking" and "contracting muscles" and things like that, well, a lot of that stuff has been taken out of context. Those are techniques suggested to use once you get past the point of no return, that keep you "in the game". However, the method of having multiple orgasm does not involve going past the point of no return- those techniques are last ditch efforts which, basically, are how you deal with your failure, and are NOT supposed to be used as the primary method of how to have multiple ejaculations.

 

Relax. Also, pay attention to your body and how it responds. Eventually you will get a very good feel of all the muscles involved in the process, and then you can gain control of them. So you reach a point where you have a good feeling of all the muscles and areas involved in orgasm, and learn to not involve the muscles involved in ejaculation.

 

Basically, it's just like learn to control any muscle group that isn't used daily- at first you don't feel anything in the area, most people tell you that you can't voluntarily control the area, then you start to feel it, then you work the muscles, then they get toned, then you can control the area at will. In my experience, the only way you are going to do that is through observation and feeling, which are aided immensely by relaxation.

 

Also, Stoner Shadow Wolf makes great points as well that you should consider in the process as well. Too relaxed, and you'll lose the arousal!

Mostly Good Info but I disagree a bit with the relaxation comment. At least after some progression in these arts, You can not be Too relaxed. The more you learn to completely relax everything the more arousing/electrical/slow everything becomes. I have been practising Tantra for the last 16 years. When I was younger I thought that making love for 5 - 6 or more hours was some 'Super Human' effort, requiring athletic stamina and superb muscle mastery. Thats because I was still tense, so it was all effort and mechanics... Now It is Deeply relaxing and will easily go all night. ;)

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Even without ejaculation, orgasm will cause a loss of energy. The energy dispersal of jing qi is the orgasm and thats why it gives some satisfaction and pleasure. It might not be a big issue , but it can effect any energy work you may be doing.

 

Yeah thats true. Your just saving more energy then you would during normal sex, your still using energy though, and it still takes energy to produce that experience.

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I understand that Orgasm and Ejaculation are in fact not the same thing (for males), and that you can train your body to have the orgasms without any emissions. This can be beneficial because the body uses very much energy to produce sperm, and if you can keep the sperm inside of you, sooner or later that energy can go towards other things.

 

(Some of that may not be exactly right, and if you think otherwise please elaborate on it...) But that is kind of aside from the main point, I guess...

 

Anyways, many times that I've read about these things, the writings will generally say to contract the PC muscle when you feel yourself getting close. I feel like when ejaculating though, I feel the muscle contract and almost push the stuff out. So my experience tells me that contraction pushes out, but all of these writings say that contraction pulls up and in. And to be honest, I feel that when I am ready to come and I try to squeeze, it's completely un-natural and almost dangerous if I were to try to hard.

 

I think that I would be better off trying to relax the muscle and keep it from squeezing, but I don't know, that's why I am asking for help.

 

Can any bums who have walked down this way help me along it?

 

May light enter your life.

 

This can be a dangerous practice if not done with the right partner. Generally your partner, unless you are deeply realized, has to have some level of spiritual realization. You have to know how to heat up your 2nd chakra area very intensely through breathing. Also knowing how to contemplate, at least in the Buddhist tradition the mixture of bliss that arises and it's empty nature in order to expand your awareness into subtler dimensions relaxes your entire being into the energy of the sexual experience. Basically you can integrate the memory of your meditative experiences instead if you don't have an understanding of emptiness. The sperm can actually still come out as waste while the energy is channeled through the central channel into subtler dimensions, though very little sperm will come out in this case, just to release and not block the channels. It's really about the energy and if you can totally burn it all before it produces sperm, then you are good. It does take practice and focus. So learning this focus in meditation first is going to be the way in order to open up into other dimensions of experience. You will have to already have consciousness of your spine and contemplations that go along with this experience in order to focus the energy. For me, I can just relax into it and contract nothing and just pull the energy up my spine by relaxing into the energy that is being produced in the tail bone, it actually happens naturally at this point. But I do have kundalini awakening since a kid, so that might really help.

 

Other than that.. I'd say... contemplate what you really want out of this practice and meditate on the energy just as it is before you practice this. If you do it wrong you create stagnant energy in the wind channels that feels cold and somewhat poisonous, of which I've also experienced, all because you didn't channel it right and your mind was too externalized during the process thus forcing the ejaculate back in when it gets here is just going to cause issues, so releasing some is fine, that way you can focus on the energy and pull the yoni (vag) energy through your tip and up your spine while she does the same causing a natural cycling. It's really about contemplating meditative relaxation and integrating the sexual energy in with your meditative samadhi. Eyes rolling to the back of the head and elongated non-ejaculating orgasms while opening all your chakras is great though and you don't roll over and go to sleep afterwards either as the room will be filled with enlivened blue rays of incredible and open joy!

:wub:

Edited by Vajrahridaya

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Even without ejaculation, orgasm will cause a loss of energy. The energy dispersal of jing qi is the orgasm and thats why it gives some satisfaction and pleasure. It might not be a big issue , but it can effect any energy work you may be doing.

 

That's simply not true. When the sensation turns to feeling, it's the jing turning into qi. What you said sounds smart, but just stop and think it over. Someone must have told this to you, just to keep you inside the specificity of your particular training... Don't forget, there are many ways to get to the same place.

At the same time, turning jing into qi has a prerequisite: having enough jing to transform.

If you only have a little of it, you should build it up and then start the transforming process.

Building jing is building the body, i.e, health practices, nutrition, sleep, physical exercise.

Many masters tend to over-complicate things, just to maintain a state of uncertainty.

It's actually very simple, but you DO have to know EXACTLY how it's done.

If you practice it the guess work style, it will take longer and maybe you'll experience some side effects also during the training, but.. hey, everything has a price eh?

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Also keep in mind that these methods belong to the Xiao Dao path of lesser achievement - everyday dao.

For Da Dao you'll need different methodology, which may also include extended periods of celibacy.

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That's simply not true. When the sensation turns to feeling, it's the jing turning into qi. What you said sounds smart, but just stop and think it over. Someone must have told this to you, just to keep you inside the specificity of your particular training... Don't forget, there are many ways to get to the same place.

At the same time, turning jing into qi has a prerequisite: having enough jing to transform.

If you only have a little of it, you should build it up and then start the transforming process.

Building jing is building the body, i.e, health practices, nutrition, sleep, physical exercise.

Many masters tend to over-complicate things, just to maintain a state of uncertainty.

It's actually very simple, but you DO have to know EXACTLY how it's done.

If you practice it the guess work style, it will take longer and maybe you'll experience some side effects also during the training, but.. hey, everything has a price eh?

 

Hm yeah, but doesn't it take jing for that experience (non ejaculatory orgasm) to take place? Just as though thoughts take energy?

 

What very little it is, it still adds up 50 years from now lol.

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Hm yeah, but doesn't it take jing for that experience (non ejaculatory orgasm) to take place? Just as though thoughts take energy?

 

What very little it is, it still adds up 50 years from now lol.

 

Everything we do, on whatever level we do, takes out energy.

Generally speaking, the methods available now for building up energy are not complete.

The resources needed for that kind of training are also very hard to find, both in time, financial expenses, suitable place, timing, and physical resources - which includes Jing.

My advice is just to ahead and enjoy life with all that it has good to offer.

It may be the only real thing you'll get out of it...

 

Change of heart: no, keep on practicing and experimenting, and at the same time consider the fact that it may be just a waste of precious time, that you may have spent with your loved ones.

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"(for males)" was a little ignorant... most women actually will tell you that orgasm and ejaculation are not the same thing.

 

I am sorry, I only meant that I cannot speak for women, and that I only understand things that deal with the male sexual response. Women are far too confusing for me!

 

I will respond to other posts later, thank you all for your input...

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Hi Little1,

 

Feeling and sensation are the same thing and jing DOES NOT turn to qi by non ejaculatory orgasm. If it did, the masters of qi qong would have used this as a method. They would have simply had dry orgasms all day long instead of being celibate and meditating for hours.

 

Sexual arousal actually keeps the jing in the lower areas and hinders it turning to qi, thats why they advocated regulating the mind and emotions and running the minor circle.

 

You will lose energy through dry orgasms. The orgasm causes a loss of energy. Not as much as ejaculation , but still a loss. The feeling of gratification or pleasure, losing the edge or craving are all symptoms of a loss of energy. Any loss of energy is detremental to somone serious about saving and cultivating energy.

 

Non ejaculatory orgasms are used to allow a person who is attached to orgasms to have them and still prevent a MAJOR loss of jing qi.

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They would have simply had dry orgasms all day long instead of being celibate and meditating for hours.

 

Non ejaculatory orgasms are used to allow a person who is attached to orgasms to have them and still prevent a MAJOR loss of jing qi.

 

 

Quoted for the hilarity of the truth!

 

However i have to ask... in a world deprived as such ours is...

 

 

What can we use our energy for, and build it for beneficial purposes?

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O.K. so this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZogOjKdV7Y Dr. Joy is advocating masturbation to learn multiple orgasms.

 

In fact you have to BURN or ionize your sex energy for successful internal climaxes without ejaculation.

 

So I have not had an ejaculation since maybe last February or January. I've forgotten. If I eat too much yang food (meat, eggs, etc.) and do not BURN it off -- then it will turn into sex fluid. I did lose some preseminal fluid a few weeks ago but it was not actual sperm.

 

Basically the creation of qi requires PURIFYING the sex fluids. So internal climaxes all day long are true but that just burns off the sex fluid to create jing (or heat -- kundalini or N/um).

 

Now as for "losing energy" by having internal climaxes -- what happens is that once the third eye or pineal gland is open then the extra energy in the body is transmitted as the electromagnetic chi.

 

The brain will leach the toxins from the lower body -- which is the sex fluids and also the anaerobic bacteria (the e. coli shit). But the internal climaxes will also "burn" off these impurities so that the pineal gland turns it into chi energy for external transmission.

 

So as you build up your sex energy through celibacy then women and male pervs will want to suck you off. But this is because the non-initiated do not understand that their desire for climaxes actually comes from the chi electromagnetic energy.

 

So when the electromagnetic chi energy is transmitted externally this will give females climaxes -- by activating their vagus nerve.

 

The RELAXATION secret is because the internal climax is through the parasympathetic vagus nerve -- which is relaxation.

 

Right when the male ejaculates externally this is the sympathetic STRESS nervous system trigger. Professor Robert Sapolsky discusses this in his various books on primate physiology -- "MonkeyLuv" and "The Trouble with Testosterone." etc.

 

So basically any physical stimulation of the male sex organ causes the creation of sex fluid whereas for the creation of qi energy you want the OPPOSITE of sex fluid. You need to first BURN off or sublimate the sex fluid into jing energy.

 

Then through mind focus you convert the jing energy into chi -- through the mind to heart connection down the front channel.

 

O.K. so once the pineal gland is open then the chi energy is transmitted externally but ALSO the external jing (electrochemical sex and other emotional energy) is sucked in through the lower body.

 

That's why there is no loss of energy through the internal climaxes -- the full lotus is the most effective means for this free energy cycle.

 

But external jing energy can be of different sources. Obviously young females have the strongest external jing energy while old people have low jing energy. In the case of old people as external jing energy -- if you are transmitting chi energy into them then you need to restore your own jing energy through food.

 

Food is an impure source of jing energy since normally it gets lost as external ejaculation and so the food again has to be BURNED or ionized through heat back into the sex hormones. And then the internal climax sex fluid has to be purified into chi energy.

 

Ideally for the alchemy training then the male avoids women and sexually stimulating mental information -- because increasingly for the modern world the subconscious or spiritual electromagnetic essence is stuck in the lower chakras. So males are increasingly pervs fixated on their own external ejaculations - and then sucking off the jing energy around them (subconsciously). I call this the "bouncing leg epidemic."

 

I realize that in qigong the bouncing leg is to activate the jing energy for internal "bliss" -- the internal climax sublimation -- but normally in secular modern society the "bouncing leg epidemic" is for male ejaculation and sometimes female sluts will do this bouncing leg to suck off males, etc.

 

But for females the climax stays internally and so there isn't a loss of energy but again the secret is that this jing energy originally is chi energy -- and so the female vagus nerve climax is actually activated by the male chi electromagnetic energy.

 

As far as tantra goes -- if you are having physical stimulation of your male sex organs then it will be very difficult to BURN off the sex fluids into jing energy since, again, physiologically any stimulation as touching will cause the creation of sex fluids.

 

This means that reverse breathing -- that flexing the PC muscle -- that "stopping the gate of mortality" (the base of the penis) -- these are stop gap measures. As your chi channels open up then reverse breathing and the flexing of the PC muscle will be good enough -- but there has to be a continued transition to the chi energy. So if you are still eating food then you still have too much impurities which turn into sex fluid and then along with your natural hormonal cycle the sex fluid still keeps building up.

 

As Bill Bodri and Master Nan, Huai-chin states even if you practice tantra very effectively it only takes you to the first level of samadhi - the samadhi of bliss which is the realm of desire. You can create the kundalini or tummo -- the heat of the lower tan tien.

 

This is a great first step but then you have to continue to convert the jing to chi and this means doing the "achievement of cessation" or the week long fast as bigu -- which also creates water through electrolysis -- just as it does for proteins through ultrasound cavitation (piezonuclear sonofusion)....

 

At this point the level of paranormal powers will be such that normal interaction in modern society will be too disruptive unless you can really control your chi -- but because your chi is strong at this point then people around you will subconsciously want your chi that much more. You will be doing spiritual exorcisms of people and this causes "negative transference" -- they freak out as their subconscious electromagnetic spiritual energy is exorcised and their brains are re-wired. This is when the practice gets dangerous.

 

So then you can drop back down to the first level of samadhi -- which again is the continued internal climaxes. As I've stated it's been maybe 5 months for me -- because I BURN off my sex energy as I transmit my chi energy externally for healing others. As long as I don't eat too much yang food -- without enough full lotus to burn it off. I sit in full lotus several hours a day -- in hour segments usually.

 

But again since this is still the conversion of sex energy into kundalini heat (with just some chi creation through the pineal gland transmission) then most of the time the brain is still leaching the toxins of the anaerobic lower body bacteria and also the sex fluid itself. Bill Bodri and Master Nan, Huai-chin discuss this problem as well -- so that just sublimated sex fluids into the brain is a form of pollution!

 

But then tantra is dirty -- it's the CHEAP, modern form of spirituality for those not able to escape people trying to suck off their sex energy -- and not able to live in a monastery or in an isolated area with lots of resources, etc.

 

Have fun!!

Edited by drewhempel

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Drew.........

 

 

Thank you very much for your exhaustive and detailed words. I may finally have the information i need to keep myself going without [further] external support or guidance.

 

No, i need another person.

Edited by Stoner Shadow Wolf

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Thanks for your detailed post Drew. By far , the most informative reply.

 

Cat, please tell me the name of one of the shaolin monks who have orgasms all day long.

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Hi Little1,

 

Feeling and sensation are the same thing and jing DOES NOT turn to qi by non ejaculatory orgasm. If it did, the masters of qi qong would have used this as a method. They would have simply had dry orgasms all day long instead of being celibate and meditating for hours.

 

Sexual arousal actually keeps the jing in the lower areas and hinders it turning to qi, thats why they advocated regulating the mind and emotions and running the minor circle.

 

You will lose energy through dry orgasms. The orgasm causes a loss of energy. Not as much as ejaculation , but still a loss. The feeling of gratification or pleasure, losing the edge or craving are all symptoms of a loss of energy. Any loss of energy is detremental to somone serious about saving and cultivating energy.

 

Non ejaculatory orgasms are used to allow a person who is attached to orgasms to have them and still prevent a MAJOR loss of jing qi.

 

 

You need to investigate more what an orgasm is.

It is a means to multiply energy, it's all I can tell you.

If you can't do it, or don't know the way to do it, don't assume it doesn't exist... keep an open mind.

- if you want to find out more, you can start from this here idea.

 

And btw

Sensation is physical,

Feeling is emotional,

Thought is mental...

 

Don't forget that Chinese had their cultivation roughly separated into

northern - celibate,

and southern - sexual practices included.

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"Women are far too confusing for me!"

 

ya, try being one :lol:

 

No, seriously, try being one in our current setup.

 

Drew, the "slut" thing is a value-judgement that smacks of judeo-christian moralizing. So what if people "need chi" ? Of course people need chi! Ideally they would be doing stuff to help themselves "get chi" (like not eating crap food, getting enough rest and exercise, enjoying their friends and family, not working too hard to buy rubbish)

 

Agree that "mastery" of own's one chi is a responsible approach to take. Which is why I'm in favour of cutting through some BS - make it "open source".

 

I'm also in favour of men learning this NEO (non-ejaculatory-orgasm) stuff :lol::wub:

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So, how often do you go healing people and rewiring their brains? Do you prefer isolation, to minimize this haywire effect? :huh:

 

from my perspective you actually just stand and sit there while the crazy monkeys start getting emotional about chopping wood and carrying water...

 

Remember that scene in "Fearless" w Jet Li where he is busily working away while everyone pauses with the wind ? I love that scene.

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Cat,

 

You made a claim so Im asking you who said it so I CAN investigate it. Why dont you simply back up your claim?

 

I have been to the shaolin temple in Henan and I continue to train with a 34th generation shaoiln dicsiple who was in the shaolin temple for 15 years with his brother who was a 34th generation shaolin monk. My training with them started over 4 years ago and my shifu is one of my closest friends.

 

Shaolin monks do not have orgasms all day long, I would not even ask my shifu as I'd look like a gullible fool. But you can think that they do if you want to.

 

Their training is very specific and there are no super powers or magic, just over 8 hours of very hard training , every day in the style they have chosen to master. Sorry if that dissapoints you.

 

If people ask questions about cultivation , then we must try to answer truthfully or admit that we dont know.

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