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...paths, truths, forms, styles, exercises, effects, gurus, teachers (though not locally), books, retreats, workshops, opnions, contradiction. What to do? How to start?

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Whose advice you want depends on what you are looking for.

I'm very critical off guru's and teachers who claim they have something very valuable to offer.

Even if it's not money someone wants from you, then they might have some other reason in trying

to trick you into believing their inferior system is superior.

I believe that people who succeed in achieving the most blissful happiness (in the sense of

self-realization, tao-realization, etc)

 

will probably give other people as many FREE advice as possible on how to achieve the same.

Maybe they would ask money to people for personal guidance, just enough to cover their own expenses.

But they would probably publish their core insights for free,

because they know how important it is for the world that people learn to be very happy

and productive human beings.

 

These days with the internet it's very easy to publish material for free,

or at least very cheap with the help of only a few small donations.

 

Youtube for example will freely host anything from anybody, unless it is infringing other people's

(copy)rights.

On the internet, i have encountered many self acclaimed gurus and masters who take a very old

teaching (such as those found in buddhism, yoga, taoism) - they give it their own special flavor

and they charge people for it.

 

Beware!

I don't really get why people are automatically 'false' for charging money for wisdom? I don't think there's anyone who'd object to learning for free, but that isn't always the option. I posted a thread trying to find teachers locally and got no replies. Being a light unto yourself is a great ideal, but people have to start somewhere, and a system with techniques to learn (such as chi kung) isn't really going to be learned without (proper) instruction. I've already seen posts here warning against learning through inferior methods. Can you really expect people to rely solely on books and youtube? Perhaps you know some decent youtube tuition/wisdom? Just because youtube is free to view is no more a guarantee of quality than if they charge for it.

 

Even if someone works for free you'll seen find they get criticised for not being very good as a consequence. Who, then, is right? That brings me full circle.

Edited by wishface

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I don't really get why people are automatically 'false' for charging money for wisdom?

i didn't say that.

i guess there are people who sell decent stuff...

 

i just figure that if one has something really great

which could theoretically be shared for free to the masses

that they would do that.

 

why repeat the same message over and over to different people

at real life events, if you can put it for free on the internet?

it would save the teacher a lot of time and energy that can be invested in a

more useful way.

Edited by zazaza

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It'd be best to start with dan tien breathing. You can find instructions on google. Do it for 20 minutes morning and evening. Keep it very relaxed and flowing.

 

While you're engaged in this practice for a few months (or longer), you can have more time to look at all the choices out there and see what seems good. Or you could just continue with the breath and achieve quite a bit on your own.

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...paths, truths, forms, styles, exercises, effects, gurus, teachers (though not locally), books, retreats, workshops, opnions, contradiction. What to do? How to start?

 

Stillness

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i didn't say that.

i guess there are people who sell decent stuff...

 

i just figure that if one has something really great

which could theoretically be shared for free to the masses

that they would do that.

 

why repeat the same message over and over to different people

at real life events, if you can put it for free on the internet?

it would save the teacher a lot of time and energy that can be invested in a

more useful way.

 

Some people do both. Some people give stuff away and others charge. But the world we live in is such that often people won't recognise the worth of a thing if it doesn't have a price tag. Or some gurus are just in it for glitz and glam and cash.

 

Is it really reasonable to judge the worth of a teacher by whether they teach for free?

 

Please, show me someone who can teach for free. I've read many books on tai chi for instance, and it's just not something you can learn that way. Even on video it's not much better.

 

Stillness

that itself is hard enough to learn. To quieten the mind. To find a means to achieve this.

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But the world we live in is such that often people won't recognise the worth of a thing if it doesn't have a price tag.

the people who don't recognize worth of a great free thing, will probably not recognize it if they paid for it either.

 

Is it really reasonable to judge the worth of a teacher by whether they teach for free?

depends on many factors such as where the money goes.

it is by the actions of a person that we can see their true nature.

 

often in a student - teacher relationship,

the hidden details about a teacher could reveal controversial truth.

 

Please, show me someone who can teach for free. I've read many books on tai chi for instance, and it's just not something you can learn that way. Even on video it's not much better.

In your first post, you didn't talk about things like tai chi specifically.

You talked about "paths, truths, forms, styles, exercises, effects, gurus, teachers (though not locally), books, retreats, workshops, opnions, contradiction."

 

Great teachers in buddhism, yoga(meditation) etc have teached and still teach for free.

Usually they will receive donations because people recognize and value their greatness.

 

All over the world you can learn vipassana meditation for free in meditation centers.

You even get free food and accommodation.

 

The teachings off nisargadatta are as far as i know uncopyrighted.

They can be found here: http://www.nonduality.com/asmi.htm

If they are copyrighted, then if he would be alive he would 100% be against it.

 

Very often after a great teacher dies, the "disciples" turn the teaching into a commercial business.

that itself is hard enough to learn. To quieten the mind. To find a means to achieve this.

it is easier than the ego will try to make you believe.

 

"this technique doesn't work" or "it will only work after 40 years"

or "it does not work for me, i am too weak".

 

these are all technique's the ego uses to sustain itself.

Edited by zazaza

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...paths, truths, forms, styles, exercises, effects, gurus, teachers (though not locally), books, retreats, workshops, opnions, contradiction. What to do? How to start?

 

Perhaps you could narrow down any personal goals you have regarding your path. There IS sound advice available in here, but we all bare the burden of being precise with our questions. The last thing you want to do is reinvent the wheel. Anyone with a library card can bring themselves safely up to speed with the theory behind Taoist arts, and with thoughtfully chosen DVDs, you can even bring yourself up to speed (safely) with the practice. It ultimately depends on your age, educational background, financial resources and proximity to instruction, but these aren't necessarily limiting factors as you start your Path.

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...paths, truths, forms, styles, exercises, effects, gurus, teachers (though not locally), books, retreats, workshops, opnions, contradiction. What to do? How to start?

 

One of my favorite authors is famous for saying -

"The Truth is a Pathless Land"

 

There is only one truth and there is only one path, it just masquerades as many.

The truth is who and what you are and the path is to investigate that very deeply.

 

You've already taken the first step.

 

Good luck on your journey!

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...paths, truths, forms, styles, exercises, effects, gurus, teachers (though not locally), books, retreats, workshops, opnions, contradiction. What to do? How to start?

 

Nosce te ipsum - Know thyself

 

Explore yourself and you will find your own path

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Something for your consideration if you will:

 

"...In other words human beings are not the ones who initiate the seeking of Enlightenment, God, or the Absolute. Rather, Reality is, forever, seeking out human beings.

 

Reality calls us to the Path. It establishes one on the Path. Reality provides one with the doctrines, practices, guides and spiritual community. Reality watches over the seeker (in the form of a teacher, guru, shaykh, or master) during the spiritual journey, and, finally, Reality provides the vehicle of realization through which the mystical quest is brought to fruition".

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Perhaps you could narrow down any personal goals you have regarding your path. There IS sound advice available in here, but we all bare the burden of being precise with our questions. The last thing you want to do is reinvent the wheel. Anyone with a library card can bring themselves safely up to speed with the theory behind Taoist arts, and with thoughtfully chosen DVDs, you can even bring yourself up to speed (safely) with the practice. It ultimately depends on your age, educational background, financial resources and proximity to instruction, but these aren't necessarily limiting factors as you start your Path.

My goals: to overcome fear and to heal, to improve myself through taoist practise (as a particular methodology that appeals to me), to learn to meditate. I would like to lean physical arts such as chi kung to improve myself physically as well as mentally and spiritually.

 

the people who don't recognize worth of a great free thing, will probably not recognize it if they paid for it either.

depends on many factors such as where the money goes.

it is by the actions of a person that we can see their true nature.

 

often in a student - teacher relationship,

the hidden details about a teacher could reveal controversial truth.

In your first post, you didn't talk about things like tai chi specifically.

You talked about "paths, truths, forms, styles, exercises, effects, gurus, teachers (though not locally), books, retreats, workshops, opnions, contradiction."

 

Great teachers in buddhism, yoga(meditation) etc have teached and still teach for free.

Usually they will receive donations because people recognize and value their greatness.

 

All over the world you can learn vipassana meditation for free in meditation centers.

You even get free food and accommodation.

 

The teachings off nisargadatta are as far as i know uncopyrighted.

They can be found here: http://www.nonduality.com/asmi.htm

If they are copyrighted, then if he would be alive he would 100% be against it.

 

Very often after a great teacher dies, the "disciples" turn the teaching into a commercial business.

 

it is easier than the ego will try to make you believe.

 

"this technique doesn't work" or "it will only work after 40 years"

or "it does not work for me, i am too weak".

 

these are all technique's the ego uses to sustain itself.

 

I do not live near a meditation center.

 

I still do not understand why earning a living through teaching wisdom or self improvement automatically negates the teacher's validity - especially if it's acceptable to receive donations.

 

We can all agree the ideal would be to learn for free. But I know no teachers free or otherwise, hence the thread I mentioned which received no responses.

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Hmm, maybe I didn't emphasize dan tien breathing enough?

No, i read it and will try it later. thanks.

 

Do you know any free teachers in the North Somerset UK area?

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Whose advice you want depends on what you are looking for.

I'm very critical off guru's and teachers who claim they have something very valuable to offer.

Even if it's not money someone wants from you, then they might have some other reason in trying

to trick you into believing their inferior system is superior.

I believe that people who succeed in achieving the most blissful happiness (in the sense of

self-realization, tao-realization, etc)

 

will probably give other people as many FREE advice as possible on how to achieve the same.

Maybe they would ask money to people for personal guidance, just enough to cover their own expenses.

But they would probably publish their core insights for free,

because they know how important it is for the world that people learn to be very happy

and productive human beings.

 

These days with the internet it's very easy to publish material for free,

or at least very cheap with the help of only a few small donations.

 

Youtube for example will freely host anything from anybody, unless it is infringing other people's

(copy)rights.

On the internet, i have encountered many self acclaimed gurus and masters who take a very old

teaching (such as those found in buddhism, yoga, taoism) - they give it their own special flavor

and they charge people for it.

 

Beware!

 

Good points!

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It'd be best to start with dan tien breathing. You can find instructions on google. Do it for 20 minutes morning and evening. Keep it very relaxed and flowing.

 

While you're engaged in this practice for a few months (or longer), you can have more time to look at all the choices out there and see what seems good. Or you could just continue with the breath and achieve quite a bit on your own.

 

Very good place to start. Bruce Kumar Frantzis has good material on this I think.

 

 

Stillness

 

I think so to.

 

My goals: to overcome fear and to heal, to improve myself through taoist practise (as a particular methodology that appeals to me), to learn to meditate. I would like to lean physical arts such as chi kung to improve myself physically as well as mentally and spiritually.

I do not live near a meditation center.

 

I still do not understand why earning a living through teaching wisdom or self improvement automatically negates the teacher's validity - especially if it's acceptable to receive donations.

 

We can all agree the ideal would be to learn for free. But I know no teachers free or otherwise, hence the thread I mentioned which received no responses.

 

It sounds to me like springforest qigong could be exactly what you need. It seems that your goals are firstly to heal body and mind and to master the basics of taoist meditaiton. Springforest qigong gets awesome feedback for doing just that and some more. It can be learned well through DVDs and such. It gets a bit more murky how springforest works as an alchemical system long term although but it certainly does a whole lot of good for many people, very consistently good feedback.

 

Starting with dan tien breathing is also very good as breathing is key to getting good effect from most other practices, it has a quick and very significant effect on your health and daily life, teaches you basic concetration and relaxation and makes your energy flow where it is supposed to.

 

I belive, and so do many others, that some sort of stillness/emptiness meditation is key. Excellent start and key to long term progress. By that one can both refer to just anapanasti like watching to breath to let things sort themselves out and energy work itself out but also more insight based practices such as zen or taoist sitting and forgetting. After doing lots of active enrgywork it is important to let the energy play itself out in a form of meditation where you do not get much involved but just observe. In order to advance long term some sort of practice where you just open to reality and investigate reality as opposed to just moving energy around is key IMO.

 

Once you have gotten going at home you could also consider doing a workshop. Stilness movement is taoist system that has gotten great feedback on this board and whos teacher Michael Lomax posts as Ya Mu here. His basic system can be learned at a weekend workshop and one can develop it further by more workshops.

 

KAP is appears to me to be a very good system and can be learnt at a distance through skype but is not as purely taoist as springforest or Stilness Movement. You could also learn Kunlun from a book I think or at least from a short workshop.

 

A great meditation to start out with and to keep as a side practice later on as well is the secret smile. It will realy sort out your emotions, cleanses your channels and smoothes things out and makes them safe. If you search for it on this forum you will find instructions. The inner smile is another great practice to begin with.

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great reply, thanks.

 

any good book/dvd sources for this form of qi gong? nothing like actual recommendations. In fact that applies to every suggestion since there's noone i can find locally teaching that stuff (and cheaply since i haven't the money for long term teaching)

 

I do mindfulness breathing meditation every morning, following a 4 stage guided meditation from wildmind.org.

 

Fairly simple: place a number after/before each breath, then just watch the breath, then just watch the breath from a more focused point, the nostrils.

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...paths, truths, forms, styles, exercises, effects, gurus, teachers (though not locally), books, retreats, workshops, opnions, contradiction. What to do? How to start?

 

http://damo-qigong.net/step1.htm

 

Steps 1 to 18 on that website to me personally is the biggest treasure i have found in years of searching for genuine information.

 

If you do sitting meditation with those principles + zhan zhuang + yoga asanas, then you're gold : )

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http://damo-qigong.net/step1.htm

 

Steps 1 to 18 on that website to me personally is the biggest treasure i have found in years of searching for genuine information.

 

If you do sitting meditation with those principles + zhan zhuang + yoga asanas, then you're gold : )

Thanks, but i have no idea how you can decipher the language used. most of it seems to be about semen as well.

 

I really can't follow that, and it does seem to indicate one needs a teacher.

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Just want to add my vote to dan tien breathing.

Is there any system that doesn't use it?

 

I'm sure a lot of people who come here looking for a path have a hard time piecing out what is good info from all the FULL LOTUS/REPTILIANS ARE RULING THE EARTH!!/X SYSTEM SUCKS1!!.... :D

 

We should have a banner somewhere saying "If confused, just do your dan tien breathing :) "

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Just want to add my vote to dan tien breathing.

Is there any system that doesn't use it?

 

I'm sure a lot of people who come here looking for a path have a hard time piecing out what is good info from all the FULL LOTUS/REPTILIANS ARE RULING THE EARTH!!/X SYSTEM SUCKS1!!.... :D

 

We should have a banner somewhere saying "If confused, just do your dan tien breathing :) "

that damo qigong link seems to suggest being careful of putting your awareness there. easy to see the contradictions already.

 

any good websites for the best form of this practise?

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Just want to add my vote to dan tien breathing.

Is there any system that doesn't use it?

 

I'm sure a lot of people who come here looking for a path have a hard time piecing out what is good info from all the FULL LOTUS/REPTILIANS ARE RULING THE EARTH!!/X SYSTEM SUCKS1!!.... :D

 

We should have a banner somewhere saying "If confused, just do your dan tien breathing :) "

 

 

HAHAHA sounds good

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The "microcosmic orbit" or "small universe" is considered the foundation of the Spring Forest Qigong practice. There's an excellent practice c.d. that's only $10 -- just scroll down to the Level 1 Sitting Meditation c.d.

 

http://www.springforestqigong.com/instructional_tools.htm

 

That guides you through the practice -- and can take you to the most advanced levels.

 

This is an excellent beginning book that details the experience of building the energy through the small universe practice:

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2672168/Mantak-C...through-the-Tao

 

The advanced book for the "small universe" practice is called "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" by Charles Luk.

 

I took classes from qigong master Chunyi Lin of http://springforestqigong.com and he has done healing with the top hospital in the world -- the Mayo Clinic -- his website has testimonies of him healing late-term cancer, etc.

 

He did the 49 day straight full-lotus in a cave taking no food, no water and no sleep -- so he's well trained in alchemy.

 

that damo qigong link seems to suggest being careful of putting your awareness there. easy to see the contradictions already.

 

any good websites for the best form of this practise?

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