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My teacher said that seminars are an absolute waste, and he was right as far as chi kung was concerned. For martial artists with previous experience going to a seminar by a teacher who is upline from their lineage, or one that is similar, can be a good help but it can never replace regular practice sessions with an adept or master.

This resonated strongly with me.....society has truly lost its way My own interest in the topic stems from awakening to the true nature of reality...and to experience it as it truly is....not to be tricked into the the traps of the five senses, and transform oneself to become the pinnacle of potentiality....I'm fascinated by siddhi, both in understanding their emergence and nature from an investigative perspective...but quite honestly...I don't think seeking them out is a good idea..if they come OK, if not, fantastic too..its merely a side effect of the process On that point, at a group level I believe people fall into two distinct categories...those who seek the process and those who seek the product....imo the latter is at a severe disadvantage before they ever begin....the pursuit of power often ends badly, whereas the pursuit of knowledge rarely does, and power often accompanies it as a bonus

Practice with trees is a big part of many northern Daoist lineages including Longmen. It’s a good practice. You don’t want to give much direction to the Qi with the mind. Obviously things will move much more powerfully once you’ve built the foundation. But the idea is to connect with the tree and then let it lead... sometimes it will give you ‘energy’ (particularly at night) and a lot of the time it will take your pathogenic Qi and transform it... But there’s not much for you to do other than engage your ‘insides’ and then create the connection - the tree will do the rest... Once the foundations are mostly built, this is not a subtle experience in the least!

Practice Kriya and in the stillness simply lean outside of your body. I assure you you will be too happy once you truly realize you are not the body to care about going anywhere and will find completeness in that experience is more than sufficient.

Safety and Efficiency? Daoist path? If you have no teachers, where is "Daoist path" coming from? Books? Those are written by teachers. Why would someone want no teacher but want to know? Is that how people are on the Algebra path? The surgeon path? Pilot? $4000 seminars - how do people without any teacher know if they are ripped off? Every day, people are happy, not knowing. There is no real "safety" if you don't really know what you are studying. There is no real "efficiency" either. Any traditional Gongfu school is a decent place to actually start. -VonKrankenhaus

Astral projection is a valuable tool to develop in some traditions because it can open a whole lot of doors, but don't start a "crash" course without a teacher perhaps. Some traditions don't think much of the astral and might see it as a lower dimension full of distractions. I believe there are different levels of density within the astral. Building foundations with regular meditation are considered important, so that you don't get stuck in some level..

Sure ok. I won’t lecture you about needing to find teachers. I also began my journey adamant that I don’t need or want a teacher - and I did manage to make some progress without. So yes it’s possible. (But then I found lots of teachers 😄) If your aim in the internal arts is beyond the basic de-stress and relax thing, then you need to start with reasonably good health - both physical and mental... If these are not generally fine, then you need to fix them - the internal arts at this level won’t heal you in that way... Once your health is reasonably fine, the main premise is don’t trust your mind As you probably know, we need to work with your Qi and the channels of the body. But the way we get to them is through focus on the body first - you don't start out trying to feel your your Qi or direct it with your mind. This mental control of Qi creates all the dangers - Qi reversals, heat in the head, poison fire tainting heart, steaming bones etc etc... One of my teachers in Malaysia specialised in treating people with Qigong sickness - it’s quite common when not following a proper method. The first step is to prepare your body... this means 1) loosen tension, 2) increase flexibility, 3) build strength... This involves stretching and mobility exercises and a lot of bodyweight strength training - focusing particularly on legs and core - nothing extreme like muscle ups or heavy weights though, as this will slow your progress in Qigong. The second step (and this is generally done concurrently) is to start to get into your ‘inner body’... This is basically accessing the various tissues that we’re not used to using - the little stabilising muscles, the deep core muscles, the sinews and tendons and the fascia matrix. You do this by standing (a lot) and repeating the foundational Qi Gong movements of your system (a lot)... And developing Sung (active release) and Ting (inner listening). At first you’ll get hints that there’s something more than the basic muscles we all know about - you’ll feel aches and pains in places you’ve never felt before, you’ll feel weird stretchy connections between parts of your body that you’ve never felt before etc. It takes a long time (3 to 5 years), but eventually your entire body will feel connected. It feels like your insides are all rubbery and connected in stretched way - a slight change in pressure of your foot will send your arms up... a slight stretch in your palm will be felt throughout your body. It feels like wearing one of those wetsuits... but interweaved through your muscles under your skin. When you have this sort of body, you’ll get into your standing posture and it will feel like sitting into a nice stretchy hammock or trampoline - quite comfortable... When you do your moving forms, it’s not the ordinary muscles that move you, but these stretchy connections. Often it feels as if the movements are happening by themselves. Ever do this thing as a kid - where you stand with your arms by your sides and your friend holds them there as you try to push out... then your friend suddenly lets go, and your arms just lift and float up by themselves... all your Qigong movements will start to feel like that. (This is just a stage, you actually need to relax and drop more weight into this floating - then things start getting painful - but that’s some way off!) This is ‘the Qigong body’... this is the foundation you need to move on to anything else. But why? Your standing and moving practices will have connected your body in a very particular way. The Qi of your body run through these tissues. It means that you’ve built the physical riverbed of your channels for the Qi to move through in a particular way. Now you don’t need to direct Qi with your mind - because its path and direction is already physically built into your body... it will naturally flow where it needs to without any mental effort. Remember - we can’t trust the mind Another aspect... if you think of an old style lightbulb, the light is created by running electricity through a metal filament... when you build this body, you’re actually building thicker, denser filaments through your body - meaning you can transmit a far greater current. If the filament is too thin or the current too strong - what happens? The filament pops and the light goes out As well as this you’ll need to build your Dantien (this starts concurrently to building the body)... this creates the vessel or container for generating, holding and moving very strong currents of Qi. And that’s basically the foundation - although obviously there’s a lot more - like harmonising your organs, clearing out blockages, sinking Qi etc etc. To summarise - 1) open and strengthen your body physically 2) find your ‘internal body’ 3) build a fully connected, elastic Qigong body 4) build a Dantien. So bearing in mind that this is missing a ton of stuff, and written very crudely... but I hope it helps to explain what authentic Qigong does to set up the foundations for further development like actually going through the Jing-Qi-Shen conversion process and so on. Happy to answer questions.

Hey guys, i looked up astral projection and found several threads on here. However, nothing really seemed to talk much about it. Some references on books, and some concepts here and there. But nothing ultimately that i could derive any real action plan. Anyone know where to look? If there isn't any thorough info thread on here, maybe a crash course on how one could achieve it? For example, - steps that would need to be taken to do this - chakras open - specific technique to doing this? - thought or no thought? I understand the requirements and amount of practice it would take to achieve something like this, or maybe not. But i just want to start with a sense of direction to practice from those who know something.

Yes. Whatever is most comfortable. I liked doing it in bed before I went to sleep. However, it may not be JUST practice, it might be that some have a propensity to this type of thing and others dont. It surprised me to find out that some find this ability rather fantastic. I use it to develop my martial arts; I would be in bed at night and then imagine I am standing out of bed on the floor ( to me this is easy, for others they need to spend time imagining their form outside and separate from themselves) and practising forms. Then I will go through the application of parts of the form with a partner and develop new ideas , possibilities and applications. Then I will apply them in training. people wanted to know where I learned it and teacher accused me of training in secret with another teacher. When I explained how I learnt it all , they all ...... and I ; " Dont you ever do that ? " Nope, I got the weirdest looks ! Another practice is to imagine yourself next to your body and observing your body, now your body is to yourself's left , then move around the other side, now its to your right, etc. (note the difference between the use of 'your self' and ' your body' ) Anyway, just practice that. after a while imagine you are further away from your body, in another location, but a familiar one . A good thing about this practice is it is not just a step along the way, it also brings benefit by itself .

Sit comfortably in a nice chair or recliner and try to jump, with your mind/awareness, to a position where you are looking at your body from the front, then jump to the left side and look at yourself, then jump to the right and look, then to the ceiling and look.

Just connect to the tree. You don’t actually absorb energy from the tree (if anything it usually ‘absorbs’ energy ‘from’ you)... just harmonise with the quality of the tree... It will help to ‘tune’ your own energy to a certain quality. Different trees will have different qualities. You generally can’t go wrong with a nice straight pine tree. Some individual trees won’t like you and ‘push’ you away 😄

You’ll get tugging elsewhere in the abdomen too. That’s a sign that your mind is engaging the tissues. Keep releasing, don’t ‘look for’ sensations or the location of your Dantien, just rest your diffuse awareness and settle in your lower abdomen - then things will happen of their own accord.

One little thing about our rulers. The word government is composed of two root words: govern, which means to control, and ment, which means the mind. So the true original meaning of government is to control the minds of the people.

And here I was just flatly answering the question about not drinking with a simple, "I don't want to." Shows how much skill I have... foolish me.

A rather longish while ago, I hung large prints of places I found interesting on the walls, and would lay on the floor gazing at them. It became a meditative practice in and of itself. As a "preliminary" it's non-standard, but you may find it useful.

"Lady Mary was teaching people in the countryside, for she was not inclined to go into the cities. Many people were coming out to see her and to listen to her teachings, for they had never heard anyone speak with such presence and authority, and Yahweh and the Anointed were unknown to them. When Mary taught, she would also banish unclean and dark spirits from people and heal people and many signs and wonders happened. Mary was teaching outside a town and a woman said to her, "Holy One, miracles were few before you came among us, but now they are abundant. Even your companions perform wonders!" Mary said to her, "Miracles are few because there are few who have faith and know the light that is in them, and few understand that they are part of the miracles they seek. You marvel at wonders, but do not know the power of God in you and that you are sons and daughters of the Most High. If your heart is good and your mind is clear and you cleave to the Anointed who dwells in you, nothing will be impossible to you. Have faith and seek acquaintance." "Miracles" St Mary Magdalene by Tau Malachi

Yes, I guess it depends on the terms, the toolsl and how they're used. I'll try an example... I've become very comfortable with myself in social situations lately. I'd say that has been empowering. But I haven't really done anything to have that happen. It's just happened on it's own as a result of me letting go of wanting to control. Would that be called self empowerment? If so, there's no way I could teach it to someone, because I didn't do anything... it just gradually happened. Conversely, when I've tried to be more confident in social situations, like dressing a certain way, or standing up straight or talking about certain things, I've only seemed to increase self consciousness. It's when I don't try that good stuff happens. So the "no self" thing seems to be working in empowering me. Another paradox, I see them everywhere! lol

You could start with the pore breathing practice, this is how WLP starts with new students. The chapter to begin with is 'Attracting Immortality' which has 12 methods. It starts from the very basics and unfolds into whatever depth you can manage.

I have seen that although IFS has some "good ideas" in it, those ideas are not actually new and it's become a jazzed up thing in order to charge £500/.day for "training" seminars which is extremely expensive, and probably because of the high cost the students don't have enough money to get any real therapy on themselves. It also appears to me that some, not all, but some IFS therapist use the "very clever" ideas in IFS to avoid themselves in a new and clever way that is very pleasing to the ego-false-self that adores being in his mind with "very clever" ideas. Unfortunately we live on in a society of low consciousness and corruption. In this environment you are -if you want my advice- much better off going the long way round doing simple things like crying, being sincere and truthful about your pain, sitting in front of a large mirror, grieving and doing things like that ... which are difficult to get wrong, and yes they hurt, but the truth hurts. Trying to be "really clever" and associating yourself with "very clever" therapies is not an appropriate response to this corrupt world. Better to be simple grounded and "old fashioned".

"Want to meditate with me???" *eyes wide and staring*

I'm interested in how trauma is viewed from the TCM paradigm. I understand that the diagnostic procedures of TCM are very intricate, and reliable at painting a picture of a patients imbalances. I've personally experienced the immense healing power of TCM in treating health conditions. But can TCM address deeply held trauma, and free patients from the neurosis and suffering it brings? Are there Qigong healers that can do so? I have heard some teachers talk about trauma release through Qigong, but for people suffering from severe mental illness, putting in the hours of practice to eventually reach these deep states where such transformation could be possible, is simply not realistic. I am focused on this right now as I have a friend who is in a dire state of mental illness, and seems to be "slipping through the cracks" of the health system, and is also severely lacking in family support. Any responses are much appreciated..

evolving towards the non-evolutionary ...ha ha... Brahman does not evolve, so what the hell? yet soul evolves as a matrix for Brahman which many matrix's talk about since Brahman is roaring with silence on the matter.

How to absorb energy from trees ;

The Basic's - the Foundation is never discarded. It is the most advanced of all practice. To dismiss this is to have a very poor understanding of the Basic's. If you are thoroughly grounded in the Foundation - you will proceed in no need of a master - but if a master is needed or wanted a master will arrive. Part of the Basic's is to understand or have indicated to you in and through practice - your strengths and weaknesses regarding energetic fluxuations and capacities. Subjugation is an abyss. Subtle bodies are not forced into molds of concept and doing. Carry Salt - with a grain of salt check that you are not deluding yourself Measure head - listen to how you speak and follow your path - it is a religion? something you believe in? or is it not something but a way of being that brings you to drop belief again and again and find presence in non-grasping. Is there ever increasing patience or more and more expedient means?

My Answer would go like this and I think we would both laugh.

Practicing on your own can be perfectly safe if you use moving chi kung that requires relaxation, and most chi kung was like that in the past. Since the advent of books combined with money grubbers the visualization methods have gained a lot of popularity with the armchair crowd. Those are just about guaranteed to be unsafe without the close supervision of a master, and even so, they ruin someone for the path of power ... inTaoism. Practicing a good moving chi kung on your own can be an efficient way to get a good start while always keeping an eye on the fact that everyone needs a powerful master to help get their motor started. For a person to expect to be accepted by an advanced master when they haven't practiced anything of the kind before is not realistic.

I'm just going to say this outright now and you can make what you will of it, I'm not in any way being smart about this, but i gather from your post that because you do not want a traditional path, you may be seeking accelerated stuff If that is the case then you need to understand how levels of reality work....there are the physical, energetic and spiritual planes of existence.....the traditional path that @freeform is discussing begins with the physical aspect, moves towards the energetic and finally onto the spiritual. This is common in Daoism, but in other traditions it is less adhered too. Bardons system of Hermeticism trains all three simultaneously rather than sequentially, and there are other systems that bypass the entire thing and go straight to the spiritual aspect, which then moves down into energetic and physical work ( Im honestly not over-familiar with the mechanics here, just a basic understanding, but some of it is left hand path like certain tantra, vamamarga and western esoteric sects Based on this, although it would seem i completely disagree with @freeform I do not, there is total accuracy in what is said. Whatever you do, absolutely do not try to do energy work alone....you will most likely cause a blockage and these can lead to cancer and strokes, among other things...This is why the Western Mo Pai offshoot is so dangerous...no teacher and no gauge The difference with circumventing the physical/energetic at first and going to the spiritual as per the LHP and some esoteric/Occult sects, is that you will most likely channel and tap into energies and streams of consciousness that will guide you...On that note the school we were talking about in the other thread use the Goetia, among others (You'd see some mentioned in the Bible, like Belial) I agree with a lot of what you said, but i believe a simple exercise routine with moderate amounts of resistance...lets say 2x a week using bodyweight so like press up, pull up, inverted row, split squats and lunges can be beneficial, if stretching is done between sets in addition to the regular stretching and some core work wouldn't prove overly detrimental... A lot of Shaolin Monks do similar training (not precisely) but they do utilize some bodyweight training, and I would say they have pretty well developed qigong bodies (the ones that practice it anyway) I understand the point regards the experiences...but lipings sessions literally have students in excruciating pain by opening up channels and removing some blockages dont they? , at least thats what all the reviews say from what ive seen....of course if they never do anything before or afterwards, it will be of little use...but if they were to actually work the contents of the book im sure they would build a pretty solid practice with some guidance, don't you think?

To OP: To distinguish a real benchmark from delusion, you'll have to meet an accomplished master at some point in your training. You need this to feel what the real qi is like. Maybe or already have it, maybe not, but without meeting a real master you will never know. It is impossible to describe online. Otherwise, freeform's road map is an excellent resource for safe training, IMO.

You're lucky you don't have friends who tend to get drunk & persistent Nah...you are skillful alright. I just like to play this game. Some days, folks actually get curious (or not buzzed enough) to actually engage with me over it. Sigh! They'll ask "What do you mean, do I know who I am? Of course I do!". So I'll ask "In an instant, without thinking, can you tell me who you are?" Some will keep saying "I'm a man, I'm a woman, I'm x, y z" and I'll keep saying "that required thinking...can you answer without a single thought?" Then they get annoyed and think I'm pulling a fast one over them. And then will walk away. Only a few, may be one in a hundred or so, actually get curiouser and curiouser. They'll ask "wow...I don't know...I can't say!". That's when I know, that we have something to talk about...

I usually start with "Do you know who you really are?" and there's a deer-in-the-headlight look in the eyes of my "Victim"...and after a few more words, they'll slowly slink away (Works best in social gatherings when someone asks me why I don't drink )

Maybe it's just a more dynamic and natural self?

Yum yum then toot toot, ridding your heart of its soot: a green explosion!

I think we speak about the same thing in regards to the no self. I'm just saying i dont think self empowerment has anything to do with self or no self. so therefore i agree that it would have to do with the meaning of self empowerment, which my argument was that there seems to be this stigma of what it is. Though, to the point of no self. I would say that not having a self or I my whole life, it's disallowed me from understanding who i am. So now, i'm just deciding to create the self from a no self perspective. But i feel that's what we're all here to do at the end of the day.

And I used to say the exact opposite until the end of last year. Both times my assessments have been accurate.

Oh, sorry about that. Life got in the way. It's like mentioned above, there is probably some construction in the area. Red indicates electrical and orange points to telecommunications being underground, so it's likely one or the other.

Self empowerment is not about peopel doing and taking credit for things on their own. Or that everything that that happens is a result of their own efforts. In fact, self empowerment has nothing to do with relationship to others or lack of for that matter. In fact, i'm not sure why there's a label that says self empowerment is this or that it's ego. If anything the word ego groups a bunch of ideas and ways of being into one thing. so we hear the word "ego", and we run away from it. Mostly due to indoctrination and society. I often see the opposite too. "oh i did everything i did because of those who paved the way". Almost in a way indoctrinated to never give ones self credit for anything they do. Do people really believe those people or anyone for that matter don't believe in self empowerment? Is that idea even possible to not exist? Yes, one can act as if they don't self empower themselves. Like i said can only "ACT" that. Do you really believe that if you reached enlightenment, you're going to say i did it because my family and friends all paved the way or gave me insight? Sure they gave you a thought. Ultimately you had to make the judgment call, you had to look within and determine what is true to you or not. Seems like we're always trying to find reasons why we shouldn't act like someone else. Maybe there are lessons in trying out everything... this is the range of what most people do in life: balance -----------------l--l--l-------------------- This is what few people do: ---l------------------l--------------------l---

" Dont believe the human eye in shadow or in shade the puppet show of sight and sense is the Devil's masquerade . "

An air born contraceptive virus .....

Sure - I’ve witnessed many such things. So I’m open to the possibility that the video in question is legit... But it’s worth pointing out that he’s demonstrated an ability to use visual effects to edit videos. I’m not saying it’s ‘proof’ of fakery. But there’s nothing wrong with a bit of skeptical discernment.

Thanks read that now. Luckily we are more interested in praxis than theory and personally I go with the shamanic roots of what eventually became the school/religion of Daoism. In which case there is no proto version as such - just various expressions emerging over the years depending on the cultural setting.

I'm not really. Not anymore.

I totally understand... you try to help, and some people just don't want it or care. It can be frustrating. I do feel like the desire to help others is one that should be nurtured, but the *expectation* that the other person will accept help must be let go, less you lose the desire & care for others, and replace it with cynicism. It's ultimately what the spiritual practice is all about, of course. Learning to accept people who push all of your buttons, all at once. It's not letting them walk all over you, but rather it's not letting them take up space in your mind, rent free. The TTC 7 is good food for thought: It has no desires for itself; thus it is present for all beings. The Master stays behind; that is why she is ahead. She is detached from all things; that is why she is one with them. Because she has let go of herself, she is perfectly fulfilled.

In my understanding we don't soo much get to choose a "root guru", as the root guru is the one that first "introduces" you to your "true nature". You could meet twenty gurus and still not have a root guru. You could meet one, and instantly recognize them as such. It's honestly a very personal thing. To echo some others here, when I consider such things, it is the wind that prompted such introduction for me. Not much help, I suppose..

First off, i don't know anything. Only stating my intuition. People care so much because... it is... 'cool'. Because it allows for the teachings that are considered 'woo woo', to manifest physically. They are too desensitized to believe they can feel anything within themselves. We live in a country, and a world where most have lost any sense of miracles or magic. We only see what we've been indoctrinated by society and government. We no longer feel or sense. We choose to only utilize what we can observe through the mainstream known senses. Something tells me that if you were to give most people the option to learn internal alchemy or other teachings, which also come with other complications and spiritual comings. I bet most would not go for the power. They would probably go for the minimum risk that would simply make their own lives and maybe those closest to them better. You see this everywhere in society.... Which brings me to my overall thought. There is a war between consciousness and subconscious. 'conscious' people frown upon those 'unconscious'. And those unconscious feel belittled and therefore push back and frown upon those conscious. Probably has always been this way. Why are we so fearful of the unconscious, subconscious, ego, or mind? I believe it has the ability to make right decisions and assist real consciousness. Could the very fear of leading the egoic mind down the path to power, be the very fear that keeps them down their unconscious path anyways?

I think a lot of people get tired of looking for the answers outside of themselves, and decide to turn inward to look.

I didn't really 'get' The Analects, or Mencius the last time I tried to read them. Not so The Doctrine of the Mean or The Great Learning whose poetic wisdom soaked into me. Xunzi, I also strangely found to my liking. Maybe I'll go back with fresh eyes and try them again.

I grew this stuff about 12 years ago in my standing backyard garden. I had bought about 9 different kinds of basil to try (all from seed by the way. Started indoors like peppers/tomatoes. Grew just fine -- much like all the other basils -- in zone 6 ozarks). Each year, the smell of a few basils and other herbs in the garden was nice. But that year, the smell was just out of this world. It honestly felt like you were being 'fed' on some level and getting healthier by the sniff just by walking through the garden. I've always assumed it was simply a greater variety of basil types that year that had that effect. Maybe it was the Tulsi. :-) Some of the larger seed organizations (like Seed Savers) should have it. Maybe not in the public-commercial catalog (not sure) but their membership offerings are really huge. I remember the first time I got their small-print thick-book catalog in the 90s, realizing there were probably 150 or so different kinds of peas (peas!) alone, not to mention everything else, including tons of fruiting plants I never heard of in my life -- really mind boggling! This spring I am starting a whole back room of aeroponic cloning and hydroponic gardening, mostly for summer veggies I can have indoors year round, but I figure I'll also grow a few culinary herbs and pretty flowers. Maybe I will grow some Tulsi. I cannot recall the specific taste of the stuff. Could you make pesto out of it like you do other basils? RC

How long for? Which stretches? In general I do about an hours worth of stretching and joint mobility work per day. Some days way more. I’ve been doing this for many years. It takes a long while for the body to open. The way I’ve learned it, standing practice is not for opening the body and mobilising Qi, but for building structure and correct body principles. Later it can also be used for filling with Qi. You’re right to bend the knees. What about your kua and your hip joints? Do you sink into those? Do you go to sit on the imaginary bar stool behind you?

Interesting. As it happens, I'm touching on some of these themes in my latest post here: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40620-the-origin-of-mankind/page-81#entry687550

No, no.... This is not celts. Celtic culture is the part of pre-historic Bon Shamanism as well as Nordic (German) culture and Siberian shamanism. Taoism has its roots in ancient shamanism as well as mentioned cultures. Only some aspects are common for all of them. But methods and some aspects differ in them. They have different goals I think. Druidism and shamanism have diff goals in comparison with spiritual teachings akin to alchemical Taoism and Dzogchen. Taoism is very vast and not everything is the same in it. And there was mix of ideas and conceptions between ancient Bon and local cultures and teachings and methods of new great teachers like Buddha or Lao Tzu who brought new ideas and modified teachings according to time and place. I would not say that Druidism and Taoism is the same thing. Let's say at present we don't have Druidism in the authentic form and it's lost.