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For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? (Matthew 16:2)

Probably half of Zen, or thereabouts. The Linji/Korean Seon/Rinzai instruction is to investigate the hwadu (word - head). In the Korean tradition, we raise the question "what am I?". This strong self inquiry serves to do the same thing - exhaust the discursive mind, and cause a shift of view. _/|\_ Keith

1. Either way this is something I would want to test for myself. In the same way single comment online won't convince me of something, a single comment also won't dissuade me from thinking it's possible either. 2. If you are wrong I hope you never find out at this point because it would only frustrate you. It seems like you've been practicing for years. Imagine finding out that you've dedicated a good chunk of your life to something "fake".

Not sure if it's comparable to this but I practice a method called turtle-crane breathing. My teacher told us it was a longevity practice.

There is an interesting Bönpo practice that is intended to actively exhaust the thinking mind so that it can release into stillness. You reflect on actions of the body, speech, and mind (each individually), taking enough time to really feel and pay attention to how much energy and effort have been expended over time, going as far back in memory as possible. Take as much time as necessary to get a sense of the shear magnitude of all of that expended effort and energy. When the experience reaches a peak and feels overwhelming, you simply let all of it go and rest in the stillness, silence, and spaciousness of the present moment, similar to the feeling of returning home from a long journey or exhausting day of work and settling into your favorite chair or bed and fully allowing body and mind to rest. It's a powerful technique.

This seems useful for this thread. We search for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, not realizing we are holding on to it already.

who needs a soul if you're rich... ( just kidding) but serious though, it'd be nice to be rich, you know like crazy rich. also be nice to be living in the 1970s, diving those awesome cars and calling people on your land line telephone, from the office in your mansion, of course, with my sectretary tapping away correspondences on her typewriter in the room next door. you know shes kind of cute, but Id never. meanwhile my private cook is making prime rib in the kitchen for dinner. oh i can smell it from here. oh yes, tomorrow there is an art auction, im going to buy some for my mansion, we still appreciate physical things in the 1970s. and i need to meet jane for tennis at 10:00 tomorrow, before lunch. going to be a busy day

If in doubt I can recommend a pointing out by a qualified dzogchen teacher. It makes a tangible difference from being stuck in mind vs being Awareness.

One of the reasons I actively followed boxing, combat sports & the UFC is to try to answer these types of questions on my own terms. In training for combat, there are some athletes who spent a lifetime running to train cardio. Where a foot impacting repeatedly on hard pavement can inflict wear and tear on joints, ligaments & knees. Then there are others who train cardio using a bicycle to avoid damaging those areas. There are journeyman athletes who could have been world champions if they trained only a little smarter or had a better comprehension of basic athletic development. There are world champions with the potential to be one of the greatest of all time. Who thought they were better off partying and pissing all their talent away. There are great athletic talents who were made fun of for not being able to read. There are world champions whose careers ended due to hiring fraudulent nutritionists or illegitimate strength and conditioning coaches. Observing helps put into perspective things that are truly important. Out of all of the choices a person can make, and all of the things they could do. What would leave someone feeling the proudest and most accomplished? We tend to associate skill and capability with pride and accomplishment. And so it becomes desirable to think about levels and compare ourselves. But within the grand scheme of things, there are many skilled and talented who wind up victims of their own success. What is valuable, worthwhile and worth pursuing in this world? Like the saying goes is it worth it for a man to gain the world, if only to lose themselves in the process.

Thank you everyone. This has been an enlightening topic for me. I appreciate all the replies. Some I have had to read a few times to understand. I may not have responded directly. But, I am listening (reading).

God is powerful and terrifying. A common practice to distance oneself from these harsh realities is the introduction of middle men: God -> Saints -> Radio Preachers -> Television Preachers -> Pastors/Preachers in church -> Average Joe Which is not unlike people attempting to construct walls between themselves and God. God -> Saints (Wall) -> Radio Preachers (Wall) -> Television Preachers (Wall) -> Pastors/Preachers in church (Wall) -> Average Joe . To have something resembling a relationship with God might require something similar to the following: God -> Saints (Wall) -> Radio Preachers (Wall) -> Television Preachers (Wall) -> Pastors/Preachers in church (Wall) -> Average Joe God -> Average Joe ... Interestingly, the way people relate to God is often identical to how they relate to everything in this world. As the world changes and many of these middle men are perceived as being increasingly less trustworthy and reliable. God -> Average Joe Will become more normalized. Which over the long run will only give people more reasons to have a more personal and direct relationship with God. Win/win/win

Indo-European: Hi there! Chinese: Yo person with a funny hat, how are you. I.E.: Fine, fine, sorry about that bit of an invasion by the way. Ch.: That's ok, it's happened before, it'll happen again. I.E.: I feel quite assimilated now by the way. Ch.: So...what you been up to? I.E.: Well it's strange, I dropped some sticks on the floor this morning and when I looked at the pattern I saw that my heifer will bring forth a piebald calf in the three months. Ch.: Cool, sounds a bit like the ancient traditions of divination we have going back thousands of years. I.E.: Well that's nice of you but it's just a pile of yarrow stalks at the end of the day. Ch.: Well do you mind if I take your method and turn it into the most sublime and sophisticated system of divination ever created by mankind? I.E.: Not at all, knock yourself out! I'd help out but I have a burial mound to build. Ch.: Cheers then and say hi to the Sky Father for me. I.E.: Right! Catch you later Chinese guy. (sorry sometimes when I've been on DaoBums a while my mind just gets out of control).

No he doesn't become Anubis ... Anubis is the guide - like the master of ceremonies. He becomes the little bird under the bed ... and flies up to the Eastern sky to look at the sunrise. 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r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @-webkit-keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} @keyframes r-11cv4x{0%{transform:rotate(0deg);}100%{transform:rotate(360deg);}} @keyframes r-imtty0{0%{opacity:0;}100%{opacity:1;}} .r-8iu2i{position:absolute;visibility:hidden;top:0;width:50px;pointer-events:none} .r-8iu2i.loaded{visibility:visible;top:50vh;width:50px} “I am Atum in the primeval darkness, dwelling in the Great Mansion.I am the one who existed at the beginning of the gods.I am Shu at the beginning of gods and men.I am Re when he rises in the horizon.I am the one who is in the Duat in the primeval darkness.How beautiful is your rising in the sky! He who came forth as Re, who came into being as Atum.Re came forth from Atum,Atum came forth from Re.There is no god who came into being before him."

It's completely irrelevant to the topic but relocation of defeated enemies to remote parts of one's empire is not without precedent. The Persians did it. So there may have been some ancient 'race' mixing I suppose. But the I Ching is essentially Chinese whether or not some peoples moved from A to B in 1000BC or whatever. After all the King James Bible is at the core of the English canon - but of course the Bible comes from the Middle East ... so ... what?

I and other know .... but apparently you dont ? He cited a date of 53 bc , which is why he was originally asked how that had to do with 9th C BC ? And if you are postulating that a few small settlements relating to Rome's origins ( that is not Rome itself :The first 'Roman Kingdom ' started 753 -509 bc ) got a legion together to do a military campaign into China ...... well ..... all I can say is enjoy your burger

This reminds of the "two truths" model of looking at the world. Ultimately, there is no enlightenment/nothing to do. And yet, from a mundane viewpoint, practice is necessary. A shift away from self - reference (kensho) is necessary. Digesting the experience is necessary. In other words, stages. But to think of it terms of stages reifies the self view. So, we just practice and see what happens! The best words I have ever read on the subject can be found here: Bassui's Talk on One Mind. _/|\_ Keith

Informally, this is also a technique in Soto Zen (all Zen?). The student is instructed to just sit, with no technique or instruction. What naturally happens (of course!) is that the mind runs riot making the sitter feel crazy. With practice the student eventually finds that the mind runs out of material and becomes still for brief periods of time. I have never recommended this practice, or met a student I thought would benefit from it, though I have met other teachers who have. I prefer the Bönpo version.

When you first arrived here on TDB, you caught my attention with your commentary about ATP. I've always appreciated your perspective and candor.

Longevity thread seems like a reasonable place to mention tortoise/turtle Qigong

It's just a random word i made when i was creating google account, word is easy to remember for me.

Hi, welcome, what does your username mean?

Hello and welcome.

The skidding motorcycle gets to the heart of things: motorcyclists with good control live longer. But one does not learn such control by being controlling -- at least not in the oppress-a-child I´m-the-master-of-the-universe sense of the word. Vehicular control is a matter of responding precisely to external conditions. We can´t necessarigly change conditions as they arise, but we can dance with them skillfully. There´s a lot of humility and surrender in the dance; it´s in allowing things to be as they are -- and then acting appropriately -- that control is achieved.

On the other hand Christianity is introducing the concept of being a co-creator with God. Hopefully co-creators are not random in their actions The Hindu concept of Atma is interesting. In the human context that operates as spiritual intent - setting a direction. In most humans spiritual intent rests upon outcomes without specifying process. Process is delegated to other intelligences.

Since my inhibitory impulses are out of control, I´ll take the Devil´s Advocate position and say that control is usually illusory, overrated, often desired and seldom achieved. The whole idea of control is perhaps misconception Numero Uno. Seems to me that the more we try to be in control and less we are. If control is possible at all, I think it requires humility and surrender, requires us, in short, to be less and less controlling.

@Tommy I think you might be as enlightened or even more enlightened than most of us. Don't you though feel or sense something mysterious about our existence. When you feel or think these things don't you think it's kind of extraordinary that it's happening at all? In my moments of clarity I feel like this ... a kind of wonder about it all. Maybe you don't - not that it matters.

Then I guess that I will never find enlightenment in this lifetime. I have no control over my physical desires. When I am hungry, I eat. When I am tired, I sleep. No control there. I have no control over emotions. When I see my wife, I feel love there and a gentle peace. When I see something outrageous like a person being hurt. My empathy or compassion goes out. I feel emotions. No control Then my thoughts comes without my intentions or control over them. Where it is cold, I seek the warmth. Yeah, enlightenment is not for me then. When I was younger, I had always wanted to experience the awakened mind. Find liberation. As I am much older now, I have seen my friends and my relatives pass away. A few years ago, my mother died. Then a couple of years after, my father died. I use to think enlightenment would give me emotional distance from situations. Sort of to be in the world but not a part of it. Now it doesn't make sense not to feel emotions. I don't seek enlightenment. It doesn't hold a value for me. It isn't something I can share. It isn't something that can be traded. It is what it is. To me, just a word written in some books. I do like to be on forums where I can meet some very interesting people. And I am grateful for the lessons I have learned here. Yeah, sorry for my misconceptions.

Sorry, but no thanks. If I wanted to get a list of random qigong sets to test out through trial and error, I'd have just asked Chat GPT instead of posting on this forum. The entire point of my thread is to choose an optimal path with an estimated timeline. If you are unable (or unwilling) to answer the questions in my topic post, then there is nothing you can help me with.

Did ya'l) bring up the thousand year number? I think there may be only one of those Daoists out there now. More about that guy later in this thread. I posted a thread about this video in Healthy Bums. I want it posted here as well

It is sometimes called Chapter 16 of the Book of the Dead but is actually the illustration to Chapter 17 - which is the chapter where the 'Osiris N' goes to see the sunrise and recognises himself in the the divine creator power. the illustration shows the horizon (akhet) which is formed by two hills between which the sun rises. On one side seated on the symbol of gold is Isis and on the other Nepthys (the light and dark/up and down cycling energy) and between them is the djed pillar which has four cross pieces which resemble the glyphs for vertebrae ... this si the four body energies of the Sons of Horus related to the four organs we discussed earlier. Above this is the ankh (breath of life) which holds up the sun disk. Above the sun is the sky and on either side the apes (sacred to Thoth) which worship the sun.

@PestiferMundi "-!Answer!-" 1.1. Name of the qigong training method that allowed you to feel qi energy for the first time (really important that it's the first time, as doing something comes a lot easier once you've experienced it once, and practicing other things after that first time may have only been effective because of that first time)? Flying Phoenix 1.2. If it wasn't exactly qigong (Chinese origin) but of some other origin (e.g. Korean "Sundo" or Japanese "Kiko"), what is it and where does it originate (answer all of the following questions as you would if it was a qigong method)? N/A 1.3. State the source of the qigong training method (book, course, etc. - include the author/creator name) - Not quite sure about the forum rules, but if you aren't allowed to directly link to it because it's seen as "advertising" or something else unacceptable, I'm sure you can at least just state the name of it and the name of the author/creator. DVDs and zoom lessons with Sifu Terry 2. What was the qi energy experience and what made it "undeniable" to you that it was qi energy (what distinguishes it from all the other body sensations or energetic experiences you've already had, that made you believe it was qi)? Felt like a cool menthol heat moving around my body. Not a feeling that occurs naturally. 3. What should one avoid doing during practice that may unintentionally get in the way of generating that energetic experience (if the source you stated already goes into detail about this then you can just say to refer to the source material)? Don’t overthink or be too tense, just relax 4. Were you using any herbs, drugs, or hallucinogenic substances within a week of that experience, or on the very day of that experience? No 5. How long did you practice before you first had that experience? (e.g. around 1 month)? About a week 6. How often did you practice (e.g. every day or only on weekends), how long was the practice session (e.g. 20 minutes), and how many sessions (e.g. two 20 minute sessions per day or one session)? Every day for 2 hours 7.1. Did you practice any martial arts prior to that qigong training method or did you practice it along-side the method, if yes then name it/them (if there is a book/course/etc. source, please state it too)? No 7.2. If yes to Question 7.1, is the martial art you practiced directly related to the qigong method (e.g. The Yiquan martial art from my observation basically has a hardwired qigong training method - Zhan Zhuang)? N/A 8. Did you practice any kind of occult/meditative exercises prior to that qigong training method or did you practice it along-side the method, if yes then name it/them (if there is a book/course/etc. source, please state it too)? No 9. If you are willing, include any other details you think would be relevant to the training and the goal of experiencing qi energy for the first time? Practice every day 10. What are the possible risks of the method if overdone, if not done properly, or even if done properly as the method is "extreme" (assuming the practice bears such risks)? Zero 11. Does the method have advanced levels/goals after the first bare minimum goal of experiencing qi energy for the first time and what are they? (e.g. Flying Phoenix Qigong has multiple volume dvds, never tried it but if the volume 1 standing exercises allowed me to feel qi energy, the next obvious step would be to continue training it and then move onto the volume 2 seated meditations, but not all qigong methods have such a clear and outlined path so that's why I'm asking this question)? Yes, progress to the next dvds and then have lessons with Sifu Terry for the advanced practices ——————————————————— If you want to try what Flying Phoenix feels like before getting the DVDs or starting lessons with Sifu Terry, check out this video of GM Doo Wai doing the “Monk Holds Pearl” exercise: You can do it standing, seated or lying down. You can ignore the part about the ginger. Try it out and let me know how it feels!

Ah, I see. My understanding of xuanxue is that it's a style of elite metaphysical reading and debate anchored in commentary work. A textual, scholarly movement and approach to pre-existing texts.

Who knows. Most of the I Ching is from the Warring States period. It’s origins are mythical (taken as fact by traditional texts). Modern scholarship dates the oldest bits to late 9th century BC (using bronze inscriptions). Rome's origins trace to around the 9th or 10th century BC as small settlements.

you have dyslexia?

? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zirconium