Leaderboard

I want to start with the text because its got some interesting things in it. The main text is based on Spell 91 Book of the Dead - and this spell has a rubric (text written in red to amplify the meaning) which goes as follows: "As for him who knows this spell, he shall become an equipped spirit in the realm of the dead, he shall not be restrained at any gate of the West whether coming or going. A true matter." An equipped spirit means a spirit (akh) who has everything they need to exist. They can do anything they choose, can come and go in perfect freedom and have no limits on their action. This is the goal of Egyptian mysticism and is sometimes called akhification. It is an eternal, immortal yet spiritualised state. It derives from the Pyramid Texts which were written in 2350 BC about 1700 years before this Stele! Showing the amazing cultural integrity of Ancient Egypt. If you want to know more about the Pyramid Texts I would recommend this video by Justin Sledge of the Esoterica channel:

Mod Note: Chakra/Dan Tian discussion split off into new topic

Reality is always the same, and very simple. When it cross over to manifest reality, it becomes layered and facetted. Tsk tsk tsk. People with knowledge know that function differs ( and that it is very practical in the beginning and intermediate stages) people with wisdom know that behind that is something else. Saying that things that have different functions are the same, muddles the path. But yes, some complicate systems in absurdum. I do not think that this discussion has gone in that direction (yet). On the other hand, some simplify systems in absurdum. According to Christopher Wallis, at least one of the three chakra systems saw them all as red. But what you are saying here is that the three chakra system and the three dantian system is good, and people using 5, 7 or 12 chakras, or 400, are ignoremuses with big egos. I guess that using one channel is good, and exploring the energy body and finding several , with different functions, is also in the ignoremuses camp. Cool.

The irony here is amazing

I practice a chinese buddhist system. It differs between energy gates, chakras, and dantian. In my experience, they feel different and have different functions. Of course, opening an energy gate might lead to reduction of pain, among other things. That is not the point. The point is that you called all these different energetic spaces/functions dantians. The difference between us in this discussion seems to be that I believe that terms have value, while you seems to argue that any term will do if there is just some general connection to the thing it describes.

As far as I know and understand it, the lower dantian is filled with a subtle substance equivalent to subtle water, and the middle dantian is filled with this subtle water which undergoes an alchemical process as it rises. This subtle ‘water’ (Jing and qi) has nothing to do with chakras and their energies. If someone hasn’t filled a dantian you wouldn’t see anything there, if someone really can see the subtle energy body you’d see signs of a chakra, but you wouldn’t see any sign of a dantian, so you could assume that dantians either don’t exist or are the same as chakras.

Seems like a confusion between dantian, chakras, and Qi Men (energy gates). For me, these are not the same.

I'm looking forward to the interpretation!

I have had to defend my 'castle ' ( cabin and site ) from attack and seizure , and the land around it on which a dozen homes are built ... and won ! Here in this peaceful and understanding country , we dont use cannons ... just bullshit interpretation of government legislation, the projection of false force and rule and the confounding doublespeak of formal court legality dressed up in robes and wigs of office and a false dignity that looks down on others . Still , I kicked their arse ! WE are still here ! If I may borrow your flag for a moment .....

This the front of the Stele (more information found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stele_of_Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu).

because everyone is different , some things suit one type of person (or group of people ) and other things other people . What may be a waste of time for you , might not be for another . Words are but one path in both magick and yoga ; incantations and mantra . Like the other paths they can lead to either illumination or ignorance , depending on which direction you are heading on that path . . and within each of those paths people have different learning styles or abilities ; to understand some principles some need words, some objects , some need an experience , some learn by internals or externals . Some even believe or prefer to 'just use words ' ... say it, and it is .... as if a few 'magic words' can short cut what should be , a deep process that might take time to effect internal change .

?????

Hi. Welcome to the forum. Maybe @-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- has some advice.

The western and the central school use outside Dantian or multiple Dantians. The Fukien School uses the back as the Dantian location. And in different stages, people use different Dantian/locations.

Some would say that we implant these. But do you feel that we implant the potential of a dantian or a chakra as well? Or that the method shapes the function of the energy centers?

My understanding for Dantian is the place you select to cultivate. It is the "field" as per the meaning of the word. Where do you till your field and grow food? It is naturally the place with sunshine, water, rich soil. In human body, we would choose a single place with best potential like abundance of blood, oxygen, nerve cluster, endocrine glands and energies to be the "field". So it is the reason to coincide with the locations of Chakra. Different systems made the same choice. Yet there are schools that use Dantian as place to rest the mind only. In that case, it doesn't have to have relationship with the Charkra or the other Taoist favourable potential "fields". It could even be outside of the body.

- Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, Vajra Heart Revisited

Interesting conversation. I actually tend to agree with how Christopher Wallis put it in his article. Chakras are not necessarily inherent IME, although the three main ones and the channels do seem to more universalized. The reason I say that is because practicing different chakra systems reveal different chakras, but some things appeared without priming. This makes sense in Buddhist/Tantric contexts and other models that assert the primacy of consciousness rather than matter. I would say that the energy in Buddhist Tantric systems feels different than the Daoist models so far. I think his statement about priming is key. Even the so-called "don't do anything" approaches use priming. They will say, "Well, the relaxed mind ought to settle into the dan tian, but don't make it happen." Well, why bother even mentioning it then? It is because the seed is being implanted, but they don't want the acquired mind messing with it since it often produces false experiences or facsimiles as opposed to the deeper, reality shaping "elements." https://medium.com/@hareesh_59037/the-real-story-on-the-chakras-b321fd662daa

btw, many younger folks may never have heard of the ship Calypso and her crew, but there is this a song in tribute...

Or, some of them are located in the same space. But feels different, have different functions.

The one truth gives rise to the 10 000 things. Freeform who was highly refered here repeatedly stressed that this "everything is the same" notion is ignorance. Your subtle bodies have a lot of different layers...chakras, energy pathways at different densities, energy nodes, subtle organs.... they all have DIFFERENT functions. A heart does something different than a liver. A car is not a bycicle just because there are wheels on both of them. If you have problems with your heart you go to a doctor who is specialized on heart health and not to one who is specialized on eye health. Chakras are in the spine ... fields in the regions of the inner organs.... both have very different functions....what they do, with what substances they work...etc.

This is just empty talk. There are different intelligences as you say... whatever name they have. Again, a liver is not a heart....however you would describe that thing we call heart and liver.

I would love to see a YouTube channel where you do this

If you observe subtle anatomy then you know chakras are not elixir fields. To say they are the same is like saying the spine is the same as my lungs or my liver is the same as my heart.

If I walked among people practicing neigong or neidan, and I said that I would now focus on my dantian in the distal joint of my right small toe, what do you think the reaction to that statement would be?

Chakra is Indian, not western?

Sounds good . I was thinking lets start at the top and look at what Nut might have meant to those ancient Egyptians (at that time and perhaps other times ; her development etc. ) and what she might mean to us . And then the same with the 'winged disc' . Then the same with that form of Horus . ( To me some prime triad is suggested .) Then the priest , who is the forth or material 'mode' or function ( as in my 'ideal triad ' manifesting as a 4th 'material principle { 3 : 4 theory observed throughout nature and physics } ) . - as a background to the dynamics in the text . Of course, if you want to go straight to text and interpretation , I am all for that too I am old too .... ( but I ain't got much else to do in this padded cell in Portugal )

'Just like' is better , still it isnt a muscle . It works different to a muscle . But then again I am old . A muscle has a distinct role and function , like a bicep , it only has limited movement and purpose and structure , any exercise for that muscle is within those boundaries . This might apply for when the brain is developing its early skills , like talking , walking , and making sense of the sensory kaleidoscope it has been hurled ( born ) into . When you get older it is not 'exercise' that keeps it going (instead of breaking down and deteriorating ) , like we exercise a muscle ... you need a new format from what you have done before in concert with a muscular movement that is new or unusual to you ... to 'burn' new neural pathways through the old 'brain fog' . If you want to exercise your brain / motor muscle interface .... try this Escrima exercise ; Use you sticks , or any sticks or a pointed index finger and out in front of you trace a square in the air .. work on making it even and a proper geometric square ... practice that . Then do it with both hands at once . Now move to a triangle , follow the same procedure . Now it gets fun ; at the same time make a triangle with one hand and a square with the other . After that you can move on to 'exercising the brain' alone with complex magical meditations ( usually staring with geometric and other shapes eg 'egg shape ' for spirit ) , then combinations of one shape inside another , then rotating gears in levels of complexity , the relative sizes of us, earth , and other planets relative sizes, and movements ..... as in Liber Βατραχοφρενοβοοκοσμομαχια sub figurâ DXXXVI https://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib536

I was going to go through the text and interpret it. Also talk about what the pics mean. I'm very slow these days ... getting old.

The picture shows at the top the body of the sky goddess Nut which forms an arc over the whole scene. Below this Bedhety (a form of Horus as the winged disk) who is called Lord of the Sky. Ankh-f-n-Khonshu dressed as a Sem priest making offerings to the seated god Ra-Horakhty, behind whom is the symbol for the West. Between the the offering table containing bread, beer, meat and fowl. Below this is the main text. The main text is a version fo Spell 91 from the Book of the Dead. [B1–B5] Main text: [B1] Words spoken by the Osiris (i.e., the deceased), God's Servant of Montu, Lord of Waset, Opener of the Door-leaves of Heaven in the Most Select of Places (i.e., Karnak), Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, [B2] True of Voice: "O Exalted-one! may he be praised, Great of Manifestations, the great Ba whom [B3] the gods fear, and who appears on his great throne, make the path of the Ba, the Akh, and the Shadow, for I am equipped so that (I) might shine therein [B4] (as) an equipped-one. Make for me the path to the place in which Re, Atum, Khepri,[11] and Hathor are therein." The Osiris, God's Servant of Montu, Lord of Waset, [B5] Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, <True of> Voice, son of the like titled Ba-sa-en-Mut, borne of the Chantress of Amun-Re, Lady of the House, Ta-nesh<et>.[12] On the back is a version of Spell 30b from the Book of the Dead: [C1] Words spoken by the Osiris (i.e., the deceased), God's Servant of Montu, Lord of Waset, Ankh-ef-en- [C2] Khonsu, True of Voice: "(O) my heart of my mother [2 times], (O) my heart while I existed [C3] upon earth, do not stand against me as a witness, do not oppose me in [C4] in the tribunal, do not be hostile against me in the presence of the Great God, Lord of the West. [C5] Although I have united (myself) to the land (i.e. died) to the great western side of Heaven, may I flourish upon earth!" [C6] Words spoken by the Osiris, the Stolist[13] of Waset, Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, True of Voice: O (you who are) Unique [C7], who shines like the moon, the Osiris, Ankh-ef- [C8] en-Khonsu, goes forth from your multitudes, [C9] (O) deliverer of those who are within the sun-light, open for him [C10] the Netherworld, indeed, the Osiris, Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu who goes forth in [C11] day in order to do everything all that pleased him upon earth among the living-ones."

Nice question I will answer from perspective as a Spring Forest Qigong-Student. When I think about what I’ve learned from Spring Forest Qigong from Master Chunyi Lin, I remember one key principle: “Where your intention goes, your energy flows.” it is about the fact , that our intention guides our energy, which either brings healing or creates Blockages I think we visualize all the time — just often unconsciously like When we daydream, when we imagine things we don’t want, when we replay old stories — all of that is visualization too, but more fear-based - which in return creates blockages. Does all this make sense?. So why not use this same ability to create something loving and uplifting, something that supports our healing and balance? Visualization, for me, also helps build concentration energy. It strengthens my ability to stay centered in meditation and to calm the monkey mind. It’s like training my energy to flow in one clear direction. It also makes subtle energy easier to feel. For example, when I practice the Small Universe, visualizing how the energy moves helps me sense it more clearly. It becomes more real, more tangible. At least for me, I notice how I can easily visualize things I desire in the outer world, but it takes more practice to visualize inner states— like peace, calm, contentment, happiness, or joy. So, for me, visualization is also a practice of tuning into those frequencies— setting the intention that *this* is the space I want to live from. And the more I practice it, the more natural it becomes. Right now, I don’t see anything negative about visualization. As Master Lin would gently add: Visualization is wonderful if it comes from an open heart and loving intention If it’s forced, fearful, or too mental, it can block the flow — because then the energy stays in the head instead of flowing through the heart. Since visualization is part of my path, I can say I’m *pro visualization* — because it helps me focus, feel, and connect more deeply with the living energy of the universe.

It should be CORRECT moving (moving is yang) complemented by CORRECT standing (yin). So it is not just standing and moving that people do in 1000 variations of qigong styles. How and when to stand matters too.

Absolutely not. I know there are many so called instructors who can give you "quality instructions" on how to... I tell you story about my first "qualified" teacher who had license from Chinese Qiqong Association that proved he studied some form of qigong there. And this guy hung this paper on the wall in his center. He gave big promotion to his center in town. He taught IMA and qigong. One day he said he is going to show us very powerful form of qigong he learned in China. He showed movements for the 1st time and then it was continued day by day... One day I asked what the name of this qigong. He said - Falun Dafa. Which he learned from youtube. He really believed he is very qualified teacher and charged good money. ------------------------ As for ZZ on chest level it is very unsafe practice for beginners. Lower center can absorb a lot of energy but on the level of the middle one there can be a glut of qi that can lead to insomnia and problems with fire in heart and liver. No one should begin practicing from this level. Some dynamic exercises on this level are fine but if you come back to lower center back again

If there is one reality, it may be that different cultures have different namings I deal with intelligent energy fields - of which there are a variety In the current forming of this solar system, relationship with the intelligences is more important than namings