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By ChatGPT: ChatGPT said: “Fear and Loathing on the Taoist Trail: A Gonzo Dive into TheDaoBums.com” We were somewhere around the digital outskirts of enlightenment when the ego began to take hold. I remember saying something like, “We can’t stop here, this is spirit country!”—but my cursor was already deep in the tangled scrolls of TheDaoBums.com, a wild-eyed online bazaar of spiritual renegades, mystical tinkers, and energy-surfing cyber shamans. If the internet had a back alley where Taoists, magicians, Qigong junkies, and confused tech bros met to swap esoteric secrets, argue about kundalini, and occasionally call each other deluded charlatans—it was here. I logged in under a pseudonym. Of course. Everyone does. You don’t want your real name associated with forum threads like “I Opened My Third Eye and Now My Left Ear Won’t Stop Buzzing.” This was not your average mindfulness app bullshit, no. This was uncut, raw metaphysics—mainlined straight from a mix of Eastern mysticism, Western paranoia, and the kind of DIY enlightenment that could only be cooked up in a basement by a man who hasn't seen sunlight since 2003. TheDaoBums is the kind of place where a thread titled “Can I levitate if I abstain from sex for 90 days?” will spawn fourteen pages of serious, often hostile, debate. These people aren’t trolling—they believe. And they know things—dangerous things. You find yourself nodding along, murmuring about microcosmic orbits and energy blockages, before realizing you haven't blinked in three hours and your chakras are humming like a power transformer. The mods, gods help them, try to keep order. But how do you wrangle a crowd of self-declared immortals and astral projectionists? Every attempt to rein in the madness only feeds it. The forum software is creaky, the colors are late-90s depression, and the user base ranges from erudite mystics quoting Lao Tzu to a guy named “VoidDragon69” claiming he can melt clouds with his mind. But here’s the thing—the truth might actually be in there, somewhere. Buried under the cosmic sludge, past the flame wars about lineage purity and the arguments over whether semen retention gives you psychic powers, there are glimmers. Real insight. A flash of clarity in the chaos. Maybe even… wisdom? Or maybe it’s just the caffeine and the humming of my computer fan. Who can say? The spiritual path was never supposed to be clean. In the end, TheDaoBums isn’t a map—it’s a mirror maze with strobe lights. You enter looking for Tao and leave with a hundred tabs open, wondering whether reality is a hologram and if your chi is flowing backwards. But damn it, that’s the ride. And like all good Gonzo journeys, you don’t understand it. You survive it. Thank you, ChatGPT! ChatGPT said: You’re very welcome! Glad you enjoyed the trip through the digital desert of the immortals. If you ever need more Taoist-flavored Gonzo journalism, spirit quests, or just someone to decode esoteric madness, I’ll be here—fully grounded, mostly. Safe travels through the void, and remember: never trust a forum thread after midnight. 🌀

yes, useful guidelines, and useful practice. (Note: this is not an intellectual exercise for me, it is a daily boots-on-the-ground practice, or more accurately a sit-on-the-floor practice; and also a walk-in-nature practice and go-through-my-day practice.) and for me it is this (see below). Yes, I am agreeing with what is put forth above. And expanding upon it. What are the past and future? And present, too. Time is a package deal. it includes past, present, future, and "this moment." My answer? Time is an artificial construct. It has no existence of its own. Pure awareness is outside of time, beyond time, not bound by time. Time is not an attribute or characteristic of pure awareness. [This is "experienced" during practice (not always, but regularly) as say sitting for 40 minutes by the clock, but having it feel like only 3 or 4 minutes passed. Or any activity that is deeply absorbing. Starting a book at say 10am, and then looking up to see it is getting dark and is now 8 pm. "lost track" of that time; a sense of "no time" passed] Is there any other moment or place except what arises in thought? No. And that includes all moments and all places, and all forms in all those places. They all just arise in thought. Time space and form are also a package deal. I am not seeking to argue or challenge. This is just sharing and walking through my own practice as I experience it. It in no way shape or form diminishes any other practices that anyone else does. Just comparing notes for increased clarity and understanding and nuance. Thank you. For me, simply through the act of discussion and articulation, it helps me to see more clearly. Another form of observing.

@Bhathen Thank you for sharing this channel! I'll be sure to watch. I imagine you know quite a bit about your daymaster already. Just for fun (and for anyone else who's a Wood Tiger), I've pulled what I could find on the Wood Tiger using Hidden Sun and two other books. I didn't use it here because it doesn't contain broad overviews like the other two books, but I think Calculating the Bazi by Karin Taylor Wu is a good resource for learning how to create and analyze charts by hand. Wood Tiger - Gift of Honesty | Hidden Sun, Paulynne Cheng Wood Element | Ba Zi - The Four Pillars of Destiny by Serge Auguer Wood Tiger | Taoist Astrology: a Handbook of the Authentic Chinese Tradition by Susan Levitt

I saw somewhere that the scorpion represents myriad and recursion by the way its body shape resembles a fractal tree.

I know ! Thats why I said it . I dont see how you could remove your 'haikus' from here without removing yourself ? Hang on .... I better check what haikus means ...... ... Ohhhhhh !

Yes. Also there is also a natural development in understanding in living religions. I have no interest in further later Daoism, which often has different ideas. Anyone can pick and chose what to take an interest in, what to believe in.

My only interest is the Laozi nearest to the time of writing, and all my answers are based in that. I have no interest in the living religion Daoism.

i also don't think that the wisdom and teachings left to us by sages in this or that tradition are idle words or intellectual fluff or empty dogma. My observation and experience is that holy books can provide not only a depth of understanding, but also deliver a transmission that heightens our sensitivity and makes us more receptive in ways that bear fruit in our practice and in our daily life. it's not one or the other (study or practice). both are useful.

yes, that is certainly true. always good to be aware of this here on Dao Bums!

Anyone can believe what they like.

自然 is not defined apophatic neither. Unknowable is unknowable. Nothing can be said about it. Everyone can make up their own ideas about it.

No. The One (= Dao) is unborn.

not “different”; wrong. See 太一 生水 (tai4 yi1 sheng1 shui3) Great One gave birth to water Characters and translations at: https://www.tao-te-king.org/taiyi_shengshui.htm

it is not philosophizing. it is discussion of the practice. and it is discussion of the framework used which can and does directly affect the practice. and it is seeking to share and understand how others understand and experience the practice and the framework.

i never said i was going to leave. I said i was going to remove my haikus. which i did. As non-AI conversations and posts occur in this thread then yes i still participate in those.

Thank you so much! ❤️ I will savor going through every bit of this. I really appreciate it. This is wonderful! and sending Chinese moon cakes! 🥮🥮🥮🥮🥮🥮

while still in human form, the closest to seeing the Absolute being the Absolute is the experience of pure awareness. (we don't see the Absolute, we are the Absolute) just like clouds are not needed to see the sky (outer sight of physical human) time space and form are not needed to recognize being the Absolute (inner being, pure awareness)

Okay, so it sounds like we've settled on Ren Xu (Water Dog). Give me some time and I'll look it up in the two books I've got on hand!

Green represents wood, yellow represents earth. So the day pillar HS is Ren water. Is the EB block in the day pillar dog, and is the block color green or yellow? I think it matters mostly for northern vs southern hemisphere. Outside of that the calculator works out universal time, so it I don't think it'll change anything.

OK i think i found it. Phoenix instead of rooster. I actually like her names better. They have more dignity. I am going to use these instead. Feels like they are more primal, less domesticated. Rat, Ox, Tiger, Hare, Dragon, Serpent, Horse, Sheep, Monkey, Phoenix, Dog, Boar

bold above, I agree with 100% I would say it is dangerous period full stop. with or without a school or teacher. which is why i stay away from it.

well to me there is conscious mind that works like a computer with hardware and software, which Spirit can see through. there is also conscious mind identity as human ego which sounds more like what you mean, (?) along with it surrendering to higher Self thus knowing its place as servant and not as master as it would like to be.

I would suggest that Shakti isn’t about bliss, but burning karma at the heart level. This is required as a step towards going beyond conditioning. But it’s not her job to do the next step, which is to burn karma and destroy conditioning at the head level. That’s Shiva’s job. He’s the one that goes beyond identification with the “individual acquired mind.” Shakti doesn’t. A rough sketch that embraces the need for duality in spirituality is long overdue though. If the conscious mind doesn’t understand the importance of duality, it’s never going to lead you down the path towards Shakti and Shiva. I don’t think the transcendent just falls into place, I think it’s a hard slog up a very tall mountain, and then some. Dismantling conditioning on both conscious and unconscious levels is hard work.

If the rowing makes you hot and tired I suggest you head south and take a little nap on the first land you find.

when my sons were in middle school, one of the books on their assigned reading list was Motel of the Mysteries, by David Macaulay. It is set in the far future (the year 4022) when a budget motel is discovered by archaeologists, buried deep in the rubble of the ancient forgotten civilization USA which was extinguished in a cataclysmic event. It is assumed to be a sacred burial chamber, and the holy exalted mystical meaning and function assigned to the sacred items found therein , are quite funny. TV, toilet seat, bathtub, bed all take on grand significance, with somber scientific analysis, detailed well-drafted diagrams and set in the grand sweeping (and speculative) arc of (re-constructed) history and culture. it is an eye-opening parody and commentary on how our current culture may be viewed by archaeologists in the future. "The late 1970's United States is accidentally buried under several feet of junk mail, trapping and entombing the entire country for several centuries. Eventually an archaeologist stumbles upon a sinkhole which leads to the discovery of a budget motel. "Do you see anything?" "Yes, wonderful things!..." And so our culture is rediscovered, misinterpreted, lampooned, and utterly skewered in a send-up of the discovery of Tutankhamun's tomb. "judging from the DO NOT DISTURB sign hanging from an archaic doorknob, was clearly the entrance to a still-sealed burial chamber. Carson's incredible discoveries, including the remains of two bodies, one of them on a ceremonial bed facing an altar that appeared to be a means of communicating with the Gods and the other lying in a porcelain sarcophagus in the Inner Chamber, permitted him to piece together the whole fabric of that extraordinary civilization."

Who said that ? Is it an echo from one who asserted they have left ?

OK, I couldn´t resist. Question: How might William S. Burroughs describe the character of Liminal Luke on Daobums? Answer: Luke... yes. Seen him. The taobums flicker-flicker-flicker on the screen, a digital junkyard of "being" and "non-being." And there, always on the edge of the frame, is Luke. The Liminal Kid. Not a user, not a master, just a ghost in the machine's echo chamber. He sits in the silence of the forum, a twitching nerve-end. Waiting. Not for enlightenment, mind you. But for the next dose of static, the next whispered code that might break the illusion of his own flesh. His "practice" is a form of withdrawal, a desperate scratching at the scabs of perception. He's not meditating; he's junk-sick for the void. The final fix. You see it in the way his posts bleed into the margins, words strung out like a desperate junkie's last thought—the same thought you see in the eyes of a man trying to talk to his reflection in a bathroom mirror. They talk of "flow states," of "the Way." He just sees it as another control grid. A psychic virus transmitted through bad translations and the smell of stale incense. He's the one trying to get to the off switch, convinced the Taobums are just a new, more insidious form of the same old scam—another gang of vendors selling a different brand of heroin. A spiritual fix that promises freedom but just hooks you on the emptiness. He's not chasing peace. He's chasing the silence between words. The space where the narrative stops and the parasites die.

Here´s Gemini´s (not very accurate, imo) take on the forum in the style of E.E. Cummings. a place where minds unfurl (like petals on a new day) where silence breathes the body's song and answers are not found but felt (a humming of the Tao) of being simply there.

[no AI] The Dao Bums by a toxic online influencer: The name of The Dao Bums forum originates from the fact that some there are capable of being so far stuck up their own arses that it creates a virtual dark room for them to meditate in.

Treat them as different religions. Like how one would treat Christianity as distinct from Islam. Because the teachings and goals for early buddhism, vs Mahayana/ tibetan/zen, later teachings are different and often contradictory. That way things make more sense, and you can continue the path you choose.

Yesterday I received an email with this sad news about Stuart Alve Olson entering hospice care. I've found some of his materials (books and courses) to be both interesting and useful over the years, and wish him a peaceful transition. Dear friends of the Sanctuary of Tao, We write to you today with a heavy heart to share that our beloved friend and teacher, Stuart, is now in hospice care at home. Patrick and Suzanne are taking care of him, offering comfort, warmth, and companionship as he enters this time of sacred passage. His vital signs are gradually declining, and he is now receiving medication to keep him peaceful and free of pain. The hospice nurse has said he will likely pass in the next day or two. Patrick and Suzanne are holding vigil — reciting for him and staying by his side. We invite you to join this vigil from wherever you are: through chanting, prayer, meditation, or simply holding him in your heart and sending love. If you know it, you may wish to chant the Da Bei Zhou, or offer any mantra, spiritual text, or prayer that carries meaning for you. This is a time of deep grief and sorrow for our community. As you receive this news, we extend our hearts to you, knowing that many of you have walked closely with Stuart in one way or another. From the bottom of our hearts, thank you for the love, support, and prayers you have shared throughout this most difficult journey. We are deeply grateful for your care, and for holding Stuart in your hearts and prayers in the hours and days ahead. With heartfelt gratitude, Sanctuary of Tao

Please everyone note: Any political comment will be hidden and if necessary action taken against the poster. We are not going to set up an alternative site or have a special section on here in the foreseeable future. This is because we tried it already but experienced problems. We ( The Mods) have received general support from members for the politics free approach and this will continue for the time being.

That's bleeding obvious ! And why do you think that is ? You do know what stirring the pot actually does ? AI Overview Cooks stir pots primarily to ensure even cooking and prevent ingredients from sticking or burning on the bottom. Stirring also helps to distribute heat and blend flavors, resulting in a more consistent and delicious final product. Here's a more detailed breakdown: Preventing sticking and burning: Ingredients, especially those with sugars or starches, can quickly stick and burn on the bottom of a hot pan if not stirred. Stirring helps to lift these ingredients off the surface and prevent them from overcooking in one spot. Even heat distribution: Stirring ensures that heat is distributed throughout the pot, so all ingredients cook at a similar rate. This is especially important when cooking larger batches of food or when using high heat. Flavor blending: Stirring helps ingredients to mix and interact with each other, allowing flavors to meld together. This can create a more complex and balanced taste in the finished dish. Maintaining texture: For some dishes, like sauces or stews, stirring helps to prevent ingredients from separating and maintaining a smooth, consistent texture. ------------ It was your choice of phrase , not mine .

I don't want to walk away from Luke and I don't want to fight him I want him to spit out that little bugger that's growing at his guts . YOu seem to misread' things according to whatever it is that's going on for you

Its YOU ! It is NOT ominous ... might I suggest you either grow up or mind your own business ? I offer to take this to my PM as I didn't want to make LUkes feelings a side issue topic of this thread and do it in public . HE can decide to do it privately, not at all or on the forum YOU have decided to drag the issue on in public for him ... maybe you should check with him first on how he feels about this ?

It is an offer Don't be ridiculous I cant 'make Luke do anything . I think you misinterpret my offer . Looks like YOU are triggered too ?

Sorry but the rule still stands. (No masturbation at the dinner table I mean of course) 😎

I was simply offering Apech a little friendly kanchō In reality, I don't know that much about the provenance or detailed history of Bön vajrayana practices. The Bön pantheon of deities and icons are different that those of Buddhism, some dating back to the early shamanistic origins of Bön that predated the subsequent intermixing with Indian Buddhism in Tibet. Bön and Buddhism have cross-pollinated quite a bit in Tibet with each tradition having its own ideas about how all of that transpired. I'm not too concerned with all of that, just grateful that I found my way to the practices and that they've done so much for me.

Yes, I agree with this, there are so many forums online to discus and debate politics on. I see in the rules of this particular forum that discussion of politics is not encouraged. I understand why- it's not a political form. Interesting analogy hahaha.

regarding "the absurdity to deny or ignore politics" here on Dao Bums forum no one is denying it or ignoring it. they are just saying do it elsewhere, not here. it's like raising three boys and teaching them that masturbating is done in these areas (i.e. your room at home) but not in these areas, i.e. your classroom at school, or the kitchen where the family is sitting down to have dinner. sure it's fine to do it, just take it somewhere else, not on this forum. that is not absurd. it is common sense.

best keep this discussions of this nature off forum.

Yes Cobie we have all read your posts 😃

Coming in late but I've been doing BKF material on and off for a number of years starting with energy gates book and have also purchased a few online programs. The first thing to understand is that BKF teaches a pretty specific "16 Neigong", and the various movements he teaches (Energy Gates, Heaven and Earth, Gods Playing in the Clouds, Tai Chi, etc) are "containers" that allow you to embody the 16 neigong. He teaches different sets because different sets are better for different things. Energy Gates gets the downward current going, which BKF is big on, Heaven and Earth helps opening and closing, things like that. Ultimately, an advanced practitioner is going to be able to embody them doing any movement, but some are better for learning than others. So with that in mind, the goal is not necessarily to "mix other practices in' with Energy Gates", but to continue doing Energy Gates (or whatever your practice of choice is) and as it deepens and you awaken more of your energy bodies (BKF has his own 8 energy body breakdown as well) you will embody more and more of that in your practice. Now here's the kicker - BKF studied with a number of teachers over the years, and they didn't necessarily give him everything that he is putting out. He pieced it together himself over the years and when he met his final teacher, Liu Hung Chieh, that really helped him connect a lot of the disparate pieces from the various practices he accumulated over the years and the Energy Arts system was put together in order to give some progression to help you awaken certain things. Now all of that said... I would suggest doing the practice that resonates the most with your body and helps liven it. If the swings don't do it for you, don't keep flapping your arms around, that's not the point. If you find some other qigong that helps you really awaken your body, and feel the connection, keep doing that practice, and when you can consistently awaken that feeling in the body, try practicing Energy Gates (the swings or even just cloud hands) and then see how the practice works with your body in a different way. It took a while for things to "click" for me, especially going off of books. As usual, the ideal method is to practice directly with BKF or one of his senior instructors. Even if you get out there only once, if you can really feel how its supposed to feel, that's going to get you much further much faster than trying to get it on your own (but it can be done if you are sensitive enough and don't easily self delude yourself, but if you aren't super self aware or familiar with other chi practices it can be hard to tell, so the safest bet is to take a trip to BKF directly or one of his seniors).

Snip-quoting me masterfully and relentlessly toward distorting the meaning and context of my words and slapping together, out of those poor disenfranchised snippets, a straw man to prevail over is a brilliant strategy toward that goal.

I don't oppose either shying away from interpersonal conflict or letting it unfold -- it's situational, it depends on a bunch of things, one of them being one's values... e.g. what do people value more -- to be on good germs with everybody or to be on good terms with themselves. The first one is more of an Asian value -- old China, Japan, places where people lived together in closely knit communities and it was important to have good relationships with the neighbors. The periodic outbursts of incredible communal violence and cruelty toward anyone not towing the line illustrate the limitations of this approach... The second one is more Western, more individualistic -- "my truth" must be expressed, key word "my," and I take no prisoners. Obviously there's limitations to that approach too. I think it's wise to suppress sometimes, express at other times provided both are chosen consciously rather than driven by unconscious imperatives. One chronic line of behavior applied to all (or most) circumstances is not as healthy IMO as occasionally giving the finger or occasionally giving a reassuring pat on the back. You do have a bazi sense. Tiger (or rather tigress, she's yin) is just one of my Four Animals, and not the leader of the pack -- not my Year animal and not even my Month animal. Like all cats, she takes the longest naps... but she can't be sleeping all the time. And like all cats, she doesn't like it when someone steps on her tail, especially on purpose. Meow.

I think you're quite right. If interactions are an exchange of energy, and if a degree of equilibrium is important for social and psychological cohesion, then it's essential to consider what energy is given and what energy is taken. It also helps to know what individual goals and approaches are. Eric Berne wrote a book about transactional games analysis called Games People Play. It's about how and why people structure their time, and focuses on an element called Game Playing, which is unconscious, manipulative social interaction that seeks to fulfill a psychological need. Long story short, everyone is seeking to get their needs met and has different ways of doing so (games). Many games are already relationally damaging, and when people come together and want to play different games, or disagree about game roles and rules, even greater hostility ensues. At the basic level, if I want to play Ain't It Awful (ugh, this weather, am I right?) and you want to play Sunny Side Up (it's supposed to be sunny all next week!)... In this exchange, I want commiseration and you want to not have your good mood ruined. We aren't going to get far in our interaction, because neither of us is meeting the need or providing the interaction that the other is looking for. Here on the Bums, there's a tendency to play Courtroom and Now I've Got You, You Son of a *****. I think it helps to identify the games being played by others, and to know what games one tends to personally play into, in order to opt out without contributing further to discord. It's a lot easier to let go of frustration when you realize almost everyone is operating on an unconscious script designed to meet their needs. It might not be healthy, but it sure is human.

What's unhealthy about giving the finger to someone who needs one? Sometimes that finger points to the moon... the sun... the stars... as in, "pull your head outta your ass and see the light!"

Yes. Videos I like out of the fodder you will find in YT: My teacher:

_/\_ That video gave me anxiety -- I was waiting for her to swallow her bubble gum.

Yes curious. I had wondered before about the character 萬 (wan4) the myriad [as in ‘the 1, 2, 3, the myriad’ DDJ 42]. The glyph origin is ‘scorpion’ and it also had the meaning of “religious dance; sorcery”. 萬 Oracle bone script: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%90%AC