Trunk

Accessable Self-Acupressure

26 posts in this topic

The below was pasted from my journal. JadeLily prompted me to start a public thread, I agree. Have at it.

 

NOTE: This is not intended to address an illness situation: if you're sick, see a doctor. This is intended for generally healthy people who want to gradually open all the channels as part of cultivation. And, it's not thoroughly tested. Experimental guinea-pig stage. :D

 

~~~

 

Ok, so I was just mulling my frustration over how f'in' long it's taking to learn the frickin' channels and I'm going to be an old man before I learn all this sh*t and there has to be a faster way (than reading through Deadman's manual pt by pt which will take yrs & yrs to pull it together at this rate).

 

I have this rubber acupuncture doll that a friend gave me yrs ago.

(edit: link is broken. Search amazon for "acupuncture model". These are rubber models on a stand, about 20 inches high, with channels and pts molded into the rubber, labels for pt names, for around US$40.)

41v7ve8XvWL._SS500_.jpg

Took it off it's stand and sat down with it and... strategy:

- just look where the channel goes on the doll and massage that channel on myself (especially the pts, obviously)

- use Todd's suggestion (and here) of pairing channel massage vis-a-vis "6 channel theory"

 

Bingo! That gives me a practical tool that I can use right away, without knowing (hardly) anything. Gives me a treatment + hands-on repetition of learning the channel trajectories.

 

Of course, I can still toil through Deadman's manual all I want - but at least I don't have to wait another minute to get started on a practical use-it basis. Sh*t-howdy! :D

 

6 channel pairings, noted nicely by vortex:

Taiyin (greater yin) = Lung (arms) + Spleen (legs)

Shaoyin (lesser yin) = Heart (arms) + Kidney (legs)

Jueyin (absolute yin) = Pericardium (arms) + Liver (legs)

Taiyang (greater yang) = Small Intestine (arms) + Bladder (legs)

Shaoyang (lesser yang) = Triple Warmer (arms) + Gallbladder (legs)

Yangming (yang brightness) = Large Intestine (arms) + Stomach (legs)

... also talked about on pg 15 of Deadman's Manual of Acupuncture.

 

~ and from a later journal post ~

Well, I felt like I wanted a change of pace from massaging the 6 channels. Not a stop, but just a little break for evening-out and I wanted to continue acupressure. What to do? Decided to take up the listing of pts in Essential Shiatsu of the confluent pts of each of the 8 extra channels.

 

SmI-3: governing vessel

L-7: conception vessel

BL-62: yang motility vessel

K-6: yin motility vessel

Sp-4: penetrating vessel

GB-41: girdling vessel

P-6: yin linking vessel

SJ-5: yang linking vessel

 

p.s.

If someone feels inclined to quote & link those pts to yinyanghouse.com or acuxo.com or where-ever, please have at it. :) Yet another plug: If you're able to get Deadman's Manual, the pt location graphics there are quite stellar, and every page of the text "crackles with brilliance".

Edited by Trunk
2 people thank this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Important topic trunk.

One of my teachers, in his first stage lessons emphasises daoyin and accupoint massage on the meeting points.

This is to be learned before any type of qi gathering forms. The reason is simple. Open channels and improved posture allow qi to flow smoothly and be stored safely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(Reposted here from Trunk's journal)

QUOTE(idquest @ Mar 13 2009, 11:15 PM)
"I have been massaging these 8 points for a while....I have a feeling that some energy is being redistributed inside the body. That is there is no new infow of energy just redistribution of the energy that I had had. The consequence of that is that the parts of the body that used to have more energy feel a lack of it....Anybody has had such a feeling?"


Hi idquest,
About ten days after I started working with the 8 points, my lower tantien practice sort of deflated. I stopped the 8 points for awhile, and then came back to it. Now both practices are steaming along together quite nicely. I'm not sure the tantien deflation was related to the 8 points, but I think it was. It did occur to me that the 8 point practice might not stand so well alone, and that intentional chi gathering would help, especially at stressful times when chi gets drained more.

Heading off in another direction... Each Confluent point (aka Master point) has another associated point called its Coupled point, which is the Confluent point of another Extraordinary vessel. These points (Master and Coupled points) are often used together. Often the Master point on one side, and its Coupled point on the other side. In Jerry Alan Johnson's tome (Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy, p 211), he says to contact the Master point first, and then the Coupled point. To end, release the Coupled point first. Johnson says doing that opens the vessel of the Master point. For example, contact SI3 (Gov vessel Master point), and then BL62 (Yang heel/motility Confluent point, which is the Coupled point for the Gov vessel), hold them for awhile, and then release BL 62 before releasing SI3. Johnson says this opens the Governor vessel. (Johnson does not specify using opposite sides.)

Jin Shin Do and Jin Shin Jytsu (extraordinary or strange flow practices) both use two points or contacts at a time. A friend just did an e-stim course, and they were using two point contacts on the body at the same time too. The idea is a circuit. You're running energy or at least connecting an energetic circuit between the two points. I've often noticed a faster chi response when my non-working hand happened to be resting somewhere on my body.

Another thing to try. One of my acupressure-for-pain books said to press each point 20-30 times. Back then it just seemed that would take forever, and I put that book away. Now that I'm more sensitive to the actual chi flow, I notice that most points need that much stimulation to fire up. (I got the book out again.) So how about pressing the Master and Coupled points 20-30 times each separately, and then connecting the circuit described above?

I'd love to hear feedback if anybody plays with the circuits...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We do a self-acupressure closing at the end of our qigong.

But here is the thing, self acupressure will never be as powerful as that done by an informed/cultivated practitioner. The two main reasons are that we are at the same energy potential as ourselves and we are subjective instead of objective in what we are doing. The main reason is there is no energy potential delta.

Edited by Ya Mu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The main reason is there is no energy potential delta.

 

What does this mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What does this mean?

 

Don't know why I added that. Delta is the potential difference.

Since true acupressure is an energy system a person holding a point on themselves has no energy difference to do the work. The amount of energy input by simply holding a point is minimal compared to when someone else who has cultivated qi and understands the energy flows holds that same point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

QUOTE(idquest ... consequence of that is that the parts of the body that used to have more energy feel a lack of it....Anybody has had such a feeling?"

 

Hi idquest,

About ten days after I started working with the 8 points, my lower tantien practice sort of deflated. .. related to the 8 points, but I think it was. It did occur to me that the 8 point practice might not stand so well alone, and that intentional chi gathering would help, especially at stressful times when chi gets drained more. ...

Idquest, Adeha,

 

The 8 extras are "deeper" than five element energy, such that they aren't 'felt' as much. The energy is drawn deep to replenish deep store-house, and so you don't feel it out and around in use.

 

Chia's basic intent with fusion was right, I think:

1) Fill & harmonize the five element energies, and

2) then go deep with it into the 8 extras.

~ Repeat. :D(Pace yourself, take time off, as you feel is appropriate.)

 

I've only started doing this 6 channel & 8 extra confluent pts very recently, but it strikes me (by results so far) that it's a much more real approach to addressing the organ energies as described by Chinese medicine (and Taoism). Not that people don't get benefit from meditating on their organs, becoming aware of them in a loving way - really important. But 5L meditation alone, imho, is far from fully addressing the task. Like I said, I've only been doing the full meridian massages for a little while, so I'm kind of being a big-mouth here, but the detoxing, the body-openings and harmonizing have all been way way more serious than any 5L meditation that I've done. (And, yeah, I know, everyone is different. It's all good.)

 

cheers,

Trunk

 

p.s. Adeha, I gotta re-read and read up on your info. Thanks!

Edited by Trunk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It did occur to me that the 8 point practice might not stand so well alone, and that intentional chi gathering would help, especially at stressful times when chi gets drained more.

How would you gather more chi intentially, holding the tree? LTT breathing?

 

Jin Shin Do and Jin Shin Jytsu (extraordinary or strange flow practices) both use two points or contacts at a time.

Totally agree. The problem for me is that I do it myself, so it is hardly possible to stimulate two points at the time. How do you manage to do that?

 

pressing the Master and Coupled points 20-30 times each separately, and then connecting the circuit described above?

Will try that.

 

The 8 extras are "deeper" than five element energy, such that they aren't 'felt' as much. The energy is drawn deep to replenish deep store-house, and so you don't feel it out and around in use.

 

Chia's basic intent with fusion was right, I think:

1) Fill & harmonize the five element energies, and

2) then go deep with it into the 8 extras.

~ Repeat. :D(Pace yourself, take time off, as you feel is appropriate.)

I would just add that in his Lesser Kan\Li practice, M. CHia adds steaming of 14 meridians thus bringing the fusion to its logical conclusion. I understand his take is that 14 meridians can be addressed effectively with high quality energy - steam.

I remember Dao Zhen saying that in his system they open 14 meridians during the first couple of weeks. Hard to reconcile but who knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would you gather more chi intentially, holding the tree? LTT breathing?

... The problem for me is that I do it myself, so it is hardly possible to stimulate two points at the time. How do you manage to do that?

 

Hi idquest,

Best way for me to gather chi is what I call chi walking, drawing earth/sky energy in as I walk and circulating it. I remember holding the tree was pretty good too, but I often felt tired after doing it. I also do LTT breathing in bed in the morning to charge up for the day. Probably everybody is different.

 

Stimulating two paired confluent points at the same time by yourself is definitely a challenge! Some of the pairs are doable if you use the stimulated hand to do stimulating(depending of course on how flexible you are!). I really haven't done this much myself, been working with the points one by one, or doing pairs with a friend. I'll experiment and let you know. One possibility is a placeholder, something you tape to the point to hold the energetic charge while you stimulate the other point. Or some energetic tool that looks like a back scratcher! Or ion pumping cords... Anybody else got any ideas on this?

 

In the meantime, here's another article I found that speaks obliquely to your concern, and also deepened my understanding of the vessels. (This doesn't help with how to hold two points by yourself, but the author does talk about possible depletion in the article itself. The quote below is a protocol she developed to avoid depletion while you treat the vessel.)

 

Road Maps of Our Lives: Navigating the Eight Extraordinary Vessels

 

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=10276

 

 

"Since you can't hold all four points bilaterally (unless you are Shiva) I recommend holding the master point of the meridian you would like to affect (beginning on the right for women and on the left for men) with the master point of the couple vessel on the opposite side. Then hold the two coupled points, then the opposite master/ couple, then the two masters, ending with the original pair, each time holding for about a minute until you feel a pulse. So for the Ren Mai, use this sequence on a woman:

1. right Lu 7/ left Ki 6 (master for Ren Mai/Yin Ciao Mai)

2. both Ki 6's (left and right master Ren Mai points)

3. left Lu 7/ right Ki 6

4. both Lu 7's (left and right master Yin Ciao Mai points)

5. right Lu 7/ left Ki 6

Using this pattern of an infinity sign has a profoundly balancing affect on the meridian without depleting it. This is something you have to be particularly sensitive to with the EEVs because of the difficulty in replenishing our core essence."

1 person thanks this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the meantime, here's another article I found that speaks obliquely to your concern, and also deepened my understanding of the vessels. (This doesn't help with how to hold two points by yourself, but the author does talk about possible depletion in the article itself. The quote below is a protocol she developed to avoid depletion while you treat the vessel.)

Road Maps of Our Lives: Navigating the Eight Extraordinary Vessels

http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=10276

 

Great article, thanks a lot. So they think that the extra channels could be depleted as well. Perhaps I should stop stimulating the channels haphazardly and adopt a more systematic approach.

 

What I can't understand is what is the primary wharehouse for chi: ordinary 14 meridians or 8 extra. If 14 meridians are the primary resource of energy, then by thrying to stimulate extra meridians we can do more harm than good. If for a normal activity we need some level of chi in the 14 meridians, would it be a good idea to divert some portion of it to 8 extra channels? One is for certain: one should build up more chi before stimulating the channels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"Since you can't hold all four points bilaterally (unless you are Shiva)

OM NAMAH SHIVAYA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What I can't understand is what is the primary wharehouse for chi: ordinary 14 meridians or 8 extra.

The ordinary 12 meridians are energy-in-use, like money in your pocket.

The 8 extraordinaries are deeper back-up energy, like money in the bank (that you've inherited and that you've saved).

 

If you're able to take care of all your needs and produce some more, then you can take some $ from your pocket and put it in the bank. Do that well, often, and your fortune will grow.

 

If you burn through the $ in your pocket and are constantly dipping into your bank account, you're going to gradually thin your reserves.

 

That help?

 

Trunk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 tennis balls in a sock and place under GB 20's on both side as you lay down is VERY GOOD!

 

Santi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The ordinary 12 meridians are energy-in-use, The 8 extraordinaries are deeper back-up energy,

This is exactly my point. To function normally, our body needs some level of energy in 12 ordinary meridians. When we try to stimulate 8 extra meridians, some portion of energy is reallocated from ordinary to extraordinary channels. That might bring the level of energy in ordinary meridians to a point where it is lower than that required for a normal activity. One can feel depletion/exhaustion.

 

Now, we can stimulate extraordinary meridians both physically (acupressure/acupuncture) and mentally (meditation). So is there a chance that by meditating we can eventually run low on energy level because of that redistribution of energy?

 

I could be totally wrong though. My only confirmation for this is that I sometimes feel my energy running lower after meditation / stimulation of extra channels.

 

It looks like Trunk has been doing a better thing stimulating the ordinary meridians for starters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For all those interested in learning point location:

 

http://www.silencespeaks.co.uk/index.php?m...;products_id=17

 

as well as the latest Deadman Manual on DVD... it has video clips showing location and way one would needle the points...

 

both highly recommended

 

keep in mind though that some acupuncture schools just consider these locations anatomical locations

but say that those would be like on an healthy body... with illness the meridians might change their pathway...

 

still. With acupressure one should always get the area

 

with smiles

 

Harry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


This is exactly my point. To function normally, our body needs some level of energy in 12 ordinary meridians. When we try to stimulate 8 extra meridians, some portion of energy is reallocated from ordinary to extraordinary channels. That might bring the level of energy in ordinary meridians to a point where it is lower than that required for a normal activity. One can feel depletion/exhaustion.
....So is there a chance that by meditating we can eventually run low on energy level because of that redistribution of energy?... My only confirmation for this is that I sometimes feel my energy running lower after meditation / stimulation of extra channels.


Hi idquest,
I'm new at all this extraordinary vessel stuff, so keep that in mind, but I have been reading a lot, and this is what I understand right now. Anybody who understands differently, please jump in!

I haven't read that the extraordinary channels would be induced to give up their energy into the regular meridians unless it was an emergency. I don't think just pressing the points would qualify. But by stimulating the points, we may redistribute the energy amongst the vessels. You may be especially sensitive to the redistribution. (Could your tiredness be telling you that youa ctually need some rest and recuperation?)

One article I read (pm me if you want me to drag it out) indicated that using the master-coupled protocol, the master point vessel would gain energy and the coupled point could be sedated. That means we may need to know more about which vessels need stimulation before we start doing master-coupled points. (Especially if we are successful!) However, the protocol from Essential Shiatsu is stimulating all the points, but not in the master/coupled protocol. I have a DVD in which master acupuncturist Miki Shima said he would only do one master-coupled pair in a session, especially with people who are run down. He might do two sets in high energy people, and would only do more than that in athletes. Now, remember, he's not talking about the Essential Shiatsu protocol, which I understand as just facilitating flow within the extravessel system, allowing it to respond however needed to the 12 regular meridians. Shima also talked about tonifying kidney energy before working the master coupled points, since the main extraordinary vessels are based in kidney energy.

Re using both hands to stimulate circuits� if you're not a contortionist, just try resting your non-working hand anywhere downstream stream on the meridian or vessel of the point you're working with, not necessarily on the coupled point.

Interesting acupoint. A friend just did an energy psychology seminar in which they made a big deal over the lymph point located 3 inches out from the center of the sternum and three inches down from the collar bone. They said to work around the general area and use the sorest point. Deadman reads like lymphatic effect would be more on the kidney channel, a little closer to the sternum (3 fingers out, not 3 inches). I've been using K 25, 26 and 27 preparatory to acupressure sessions and am very impressed. These points seem to activate the lymphatic system and open the emotions.

Any other acupressers have favorite/useful points?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think after some experimentation, a few months, a year.. I'm curious as to how some of this has worked out for us then. Anyone who wants to bookmark this thread and contribute later, that'd be cool to have an occasional update/s here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interesting acupoint. A friend just did an energy psychology seminar in which they made a big deal over the lymph point located 3 inches out from the center of the sternum and three inches down from the collar bone. They said to work around the general area and use the sorest point. Deadman reads like lymphatic effect would be more on the kidney channel, a little closer to the sternum (3 fingers out, not 3 inches). I've been using K 25, 26 and 27 preparatory to acupressure sessions and am very impressed. These points seem to activate the lymphatic system and open the emotions.

 

Any other acupressers have favorite/useful points?

 

Adeha

Donna Eden gives a great routine for hitting some key acupoints in her videos.

45tLuqMrup0

In fact, 2 of her main ones are the "heart points" under the clavicles just outside of K27 (5:20).

 

I like to hit both K26s or K25s with my middle finger and thumb at the same time using a "crab pincer" hand.

Edited by vortex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Decided to take up the listing of pts in Essential Shiatsu of the confluent pts of each of the 8 extra channels.

SmI-3: governing vessel
L-7: conception vessel
BL-62: yang motility vessel
K-6: yin motility vessel
Sp-4: penetrating vessel
GB-41: girdling vessel
P-6: yin linking vessel
SJ-5: yang linking vessel


James MacRitchie's version of working the Eight Extraordinary Vessel Master-Coupled Points

Found this by following Jesse's link to Extraordinary Vessel Qigong by James MacRitchie.
It includes a short discussion of the points, how they are integrated with the rest of his
Qigong system, which finger to use to stimulate the points (the middle), doing the points
with your mind only, and some different point sequences from the single one given
in "Essential Shiatsu."

http://globalqiproject.com/media/8ExMs/10....upledPoints.pdf

  Edited by cheya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anybody been using piezo stimulation on acupressure points? Piezo stims are little pen-size stimulators that get their charge from a quartz crystal, without using a battery. You press the little plunger on one end, and the other end delivers a small charge. Inside, I guess there's a striker like what's used for lighting a gas stove, but you apply this spark to the acupoint. Sometimes you can't feel the spark at all, sometimes you feel it a lot.

Interesting, if you apply it to someone else, you don't feel it unless some part of your body touches their body, in which case, you get shocked at the second point of contact! So if you apply the piezo to someone else at LI4 while you're touching their LI 10, your finger feels the shock at LI 10! So the charge is running up the arm to deliver the shock to your finger, possibly clearing that channel. This still really surprises me. I think some acupuncturists use the piezo to "wake up" points before needling. Anybody know more about this?

I'm interested because often I can feel a building charge. Instructions say click the piezo 20-30 times over one point, timed at least one second apart. When I do that, often I can feel a... gathering... of energy there that seems to accumulate and then move along the meridian, or at least along the limb or body section. It's very gentle and pleasant. (It is not gentle or pleasant on the palm of the hand or on the face.)

Any other TBs playing with this?
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My current idea on how to work through the six channels, grouped in three sets of two. Taking as much time as you like to get through any acupoint, channel, set of channels. As much time away from acupressure as is harmonious. Not expecting complete results on any one pass.

 

1.

GB + SJ = Shao Yang

Liv + P = Jue Yin

 

2.

St + LI = Yang Ming

Sp + L = Tai Yin

 

3.

SI + BL = Tai Yang

H + K = Shao Yin

 

I know that it's really impossible to have any one sequence that would suit every person. Could be that I'm way off base with the above, undoubtedly am for some people. Am definately still in R&D experimental phase on this whole project.

 

The basic ideas are:

- each of the six channels themselves include arm + leg, so up ~ down is covered in a balanced way.

- pair channels that are on the inside + outside of the body, so there is lateral ~ medial balance.

- clear stagnation before going into the really deeper layers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Miriam Lee is an acupuncturist who found herself so overwhelmed with patients that she determined to devise a simple combination of points that would be effective on most common maladies. That way she did not need to devote much time to diagnosis on the "simple" problems presented, allowing her more time to deal with complex cases. She came up with a 5-point combination, and presented them in her book, Insights of a Senior Acupuncturist.

The 5 bilateral points are Large Intestine 4 and 11, Lung 7 (master point for the conception vessel), Stomach 36, and Spleen 6. These are all well known points, and I'm pleased with their balancing effect on my system. Lee says this set of points improves the circulation of qi, thereby eliminating pain and also improving both local conditions (near the points) and systemic imbalances.

I've been using both finger acupressure and weighted 128 hz tuning fork on the points. John Beaulieu (Human Tuning: Sound Healing with Tuning Forks) says research shows the 128 hz fork spikes nitric oxide production ("puffing") at the point of application, which leads to vasodilation, nervous system balance, and an increase in opitate molecules. The result is enhanced circulation and less pain. Beaulieu does caution to use the fork on a given point no more than twice per session, as further applications actually reduce the NO spiking. Using tuning forks may improve your results with self-acupressure, and are good to use anywhere on the body, especially joints, and using them for self-acupuncture makes sense to me, both on the EEV points, and now on Miriam Lee's point combination.


 

Edited by cheya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
She came up with a 5-point combination, and presented them in her book, Insights of a Senior Acupuncturist.

 

The 5 bilateral points are Large Intestine 4 and 11, Lung 7 (master point for the conception vessel), Stomach 36, and Spleen 6. These are all well known points, and I'm pleased with their balancing effect on my system. Lee says this set of points improves the circulation of qi, thereby eliminating pain and also improving both local conditions (near the points) and systemic imbalances.

Thanks for the tips!

limeridian.jpg

asthma1.jpg

st_meridian_2.gif

spleen_index.jpg

Edited by vortex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im looking for something close to what this thread is showing:

 

A Routine to use intent or visualization to make energy circulate on some major points of my energy body.

 

Any help would be great!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites