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Master Kwan Sai-Hung

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Hello

 

Do any one have meet or still train whit Master Kwan Sai Hung?

 

I had just found this info:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwan_Sai_Hung

 

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59217

 

kwansaihung.jpg

 

Bye

 

 

He just did a seminar in Manhattan, New York, about 3 weeks ago. I was invited, but couldn't make it.

 

There are a few seminars he does a year...but only about 5 hours each.

 

Peace,

Lin

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He just did a seminar in Manhattan, New York, about 3 weeks ago. I was invited, but couldn't make it.

 

There are a few seminars he does a year...but only about 5 hours each.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

good to know Lin i hope i can be someday in one of these seminars

 

How is to be learning Qi gong whit Master Kwan Sai-Hung?

 

Also if interested to read: http://www.emptyflower.net/forums/index.ph...amp;#entry98218

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He just did a seminar in Manhattan, New York, about 3 weeks ago. I was invited, but couldn't make it.

 

There are a few seminars he does a year...but only about 5 hours each.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

I'm curious to know how do you know Master Kwan Sai-Hung?

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I'm curious to know how do you know Master Kwan Sai-Hung?

 

 

I have friends who know him. I never met him.

 

Peace,

Lin

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This surely can't be the same Kwan Sai Hung as in Chronicles of Dao.

He would be like 100 years old by now.

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Yep same one

 

Yeah he is getting up there.

 

I love to learn from older people, they are very experienced and if considered masters they must have lots of wisdom.

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Do any one have meet or still train whit Master Kwan Sai Hung?

 

Kwan Sai Hung does not exist, it is only a fictional character from a novel written by Deng Mingdao, a book which has close to nothing of actual historical value. The person who goes by that name is an american of (mixed) chinese descent named Frank Kai, born and raised in the US.

 

"It may be added in this connection that the book [Hedda Morrison's Hua Shan: The Taoist Sacred Mountain in West China], with its fascinating pictures of monks and landscapes, has evidently served as one of the sources for an interesting forgery concerning Huashan, namely Deng Ming-Dao's The Wandering Taoist (San Francisco, 1983). The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself. Thus on p. 59 we read, as part of the hero's account of his experiences during his first ascent of Huashan: "The East Peak Monastery was plain stucco and tile and was composed of groups of four-square buildings set in quadrangles. There were also smaller huts of wood and clay. As they passed a hut set behind an iron bell topped with a stone cup that collected dew, Saihung saw a willow-thin man sunning himself on the terrace. He wore grey robes and a black hat with a jade rectangle sewn to its front. The accolytes told Saihung that he was a sorcerer." But comparison with Plate 38 in Morrison's book makes it clear beyond peradventure that the description is based upon this photograph, and not possibly on independent observation at Huashan. No doubt the picture shows the dew-collecting stone cup above the iron bell, but closer scrutiny reveals that in fact the cup is standing at some distance behind the bell. It is thus only the photographic angle that makes it possible to see "an iron bell topped with a stone cup" (in itself, of course, a rather unlikely concept). "

 

Poul Andersen, A Visit to Huashan in Cahiers d'Extreme Asie 5 (1989-90)

 

Needless to say, Frank Kai was NOT born in china in 1920 ... unless you expect this guy to be 90 years old :)

 

ksh.jpg

 

YM

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I'm a little perplexed. although I don't actually believe the story.

That doesn't mean what the story has in it doesn't describe many things to think about many different stages of practices.

 

Anyway, despite how relevant it is to history or not its clearly stated in the book its a fictional book.

 

Although I checked and read page 59... in fact I practically reread the whole chapter, I didn't read anything of the above quote.

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Kwan Sai Hung does not exist, it is only a fictional character from a novel written by Deng Mingdao, a book which has close to nothing of actual historical value. The person who goes by that name is an american of (mixed) chinese descent named Frank Kai, born and raised in the US.

 

"It may be added in this connection that the book [Hedda Morrison's Hua Shan: The Taoist Sacred Mountain in West China], with its fascinating pictures of monks and landscapes, has evidently served as one of the sources for an interesting forgery concerning Huashan, namely Deng Ming-Dao's The Wandering Taoist (San Francisco, 1983). The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself. Thus on p. 59 we read, as part of the hero's account of his experiences during his first ascent of Huashan: "The East Peak Monastery was plain stucco and tile and was composed of groups of four-square buildings set in quadrangles. There were also smaller huts of wood and clay. As they passed a hut set behind an iron bell topped with a stone cup that collected dew, Saihung saw a willow-thin man sunning himself on the terrace. He wore grey robes and a black hat with a jade rectangle sewn to its front. The accolytes told Saihung that he was a sorcerer." But comparison with Plate 38 in Morrison's book makes it clear beyond peradventure that the description is based upon this photograph, and not possibly on independent observation at Huashan. No doubt the picture shows the dew-collecting stone cup above the iron bell, but closer scrutiny reveals that in fact the cup is standing at some distance behind the bell. It is thus only the photographic angle that makes it possible to see "an iron bell topped with a stone cup" (in itself, of course, a rather unlikely concept). "

 

Poul Andersen, A Visit to Huashan in Cahiers d'Extreme Asie 5 (1989-90)

 

Needless to say, Frank Kai was NOT born in china in 1920 ... unless you expect this guy to be 90 years old :)

 

ksh.jpg

 

YM

 

I had a feeling that the story was just a work of fiction.

Glad to see that has been cleared up. The world is full of these conmen.

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Although I checked and read page 59... in fact I practically reread the whole chapter, I didn't read anything of the above quote.

 

WT,

 

Deng mingdao's books has been published and republished, so I guess you are reading a different edition to the one criticized by Anderson (possibly a later edition ?).

 

YM

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I had a feeling that the story was just a work of fiction.

Glad to see that has been cleared up. The world is full of these conmen.

Yes, me too. I did not quite trust this book and I never understood why it gets such a good reputation.

 

Which books can we trust when it comes to facinating stories about taoist masters(that are still alive today)? ...other than Opening the Dragons Gate.

YMWong, do you know of any?

Edited by sheng zhen

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WT,

 

Deng mingdao's books has been published and republished, so I guess you are reading a different edition to the one criticized by Anderson (possibly a later edition ?).

 

YM

 

Most likely a latter edition... Although You gunna practically get me to read 3 or 4 chapters of it again to find out where it says that.

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Which books can we trust when it comes to facinating stories about taoist masters(that are still alive today)? ...other than Opening the Dragons Gate.

YMWong, do you know of any?

 

None, in my opinion

 

For those inclined in this genre I'd suggest an old 'classic' instead:

 

1590301765.jpg

 

Seven Taoist Masters

A Folk Novel of China

Translated by Eva Wong

Paperback / Shambhala Classics / 208 pages / 6 x 9

ISBN 978-1-59030-176-0 / October 2004

 

http://www.shambhala.com/html/catalog/item...9030-176-5.cfm/

 

that depics the story of the early Quanzhen group, including of course the Longmen (to be) founder Master Qiu.

 

These books, however, should be taken as 'inspirational' and not as (strictly) historical works

 

YM

 

Most likely a latter edition... Although You gunna practically get me to read 3 or 4 chapters of it again to find out where it says that.

 

Well, simply check and let us know the date of publication of your copy to see wether it is later than 1989-90 (date of publication of Anderson's review) and considering that the original version is dated 1983 if the quoted part is not there anymore we can all make up our mind as to why :)

 

YM

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If an explanation is good or not, depends if it is timely or not.

Saihung's book has been a great inspiration for many.

Not in as much as searching for the Real Dao, yet many practicioners that have now real results with practice have started with the poorest resources in terms of information, just like this book we're talking about now.

 

A timely revelation of the nature of that book would be when the practicioner is mature enough to take things to a next level. An untimely revelation would only for an unprepared practicioner would mean building high doubts about anyone and anything regarding practice. Especially if he liked Saihung's tale.

 

Cultivation is firstly a matter of the soul to me. You don't run with your boots on into somebody else's soul... unless they invite you to.

No matter how much light you want to make on the subject, people will continue to believe what they believe.

And the ones that don't know left from right are going to be hurt.

It's a big responsability, to start debunking this author or that.

 

L1

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Of course you don't tell a kid that Santa Claus doesn't exist but you expect a grown up to give ol' Santa the right value in the scale of things, no ?

So unless some of the posters here are below the age of 10 I think that giving correct information is useful. What people does with that info then, eventually confirms whether they are above 10 or not :)

 

YM

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I did not quite trust this book and I never understood why it gets such a good reputation.

 

It is a good set of stories but that is all they are...stories.

 

I was told that when a student of T.T. Liang, who was also learning chi kung from Kwan Sai-Hung, brought KSH to meet that Liang instantly knew he was a fake because of his dialect.

 

But I have also been told that Kwan Sai-Hung's chi kung is top notch so maybe don't focus on the stories or the man but just the methods. The few sets that I have learned that were to have passed from KSH I find to be quite powerful. Paul Gallagher in Asheville, NC used to teach some of KSH's stuff and have some videos. Paul Gallagher is steeped in the Taoist arts if someone is looking for a good teacher in that part of the country.

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So unless some of the posters here are below the age of 10 I think that giving correct information is useful. What people does with that info then, eventually confirms whether they are above 10 or not :)

haha, yes ;) Its not easy to see in ourselves where we still act like 10-year olds... Its much easier to project our reaction and blame others for making us react like that.

 

Do we dare to ask you what you know about Opening the Dragons Gate? I dont think this book has been debunked yet...

Edited by sheng zhen

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Kwan Sai Hung does not exist, it is only a fictional character from a novel written by Deng Mingdao, a book which has close to nothing of actual historical value. The person who goes by that name is an american of (mixed) chinese descent named Frank Kai, born and raised in the US.

 

"It may be added in this connection that the book [Hedda Morrison's Hua Shan: The Taoist Sacred Mountain in West China], with its fascinating pictures of monks and landscapes, has evidently served as one of the sources for an interesting forgery concerning Huashan, namely Deng Ming-Dao's The Wandering Taoist (San Francisco, 1983). The latter publication contains the biography of one Kwan Saihung, a teacher of martial arts somewhere in the United States, who was ostensibly brought up on Huashan and there initiated into the Zhengyi Huashan sect (sic). The biography is presented as based on stories allegedly told by the master himself. Thus on p. 59 we read, as part of the hero's account of his experiences during his first ascent of Huashan: "The East Peak Monastery was plain stucco and tile and was composed of groups of four-square buildings set in quadrangles. There were also smaller huts of wood and clay. As they passed a hut set behind an iron bell topped with a stone cup that collected dew, Saihung saw a willow-thin man sunning himself on the terrace. He wore grey robes and a black hat with a jade rectangle sewn to its front. The accolytes told Saihung that he was a sorcerer." But comparison with Plate 38 in Morrison's book makes it clear beyond peradventure that the description is based upon this photograph, and not possibly on independent observation at Huashan. No doubt the picture shows the dew-collecting stone cup above the iron bell, but closer scrutiny reveals that in fact the cup is standing at some distance behind the bell. It is thus only the photographic angle that makes it possible to see "an iron bell topped with a stone cup" (in itself, of course, a rather unlikely concept). "

 

Poul Andersen, A Visit to Huashan in Cahiers d'Extreme Asie 5 (1989-90)

 

Needless to say, Frank Kai was NOT born in china in 1920 ... unless you expect this guy to be 90 years old :)

 

ksh.jpg

 

YM

 

I've read somewhere that he himself was saying that he was half german....

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None, in my opinion

 

For those inclined in this genre I'd suggest an old 'classic' instead:

 

Seven Taoist Masters

A Folk Novel of China

Translated by Eva Wong

I love that book. Anyone who has read the stories of modern Taoists but not the the older ones is missing out, IMHO.
These books, however, should be taken as 'inspirational' and not as (strictly) historical works

I have a pretty open mind about what may have actually happened, but when I read the part where Bodhidharma comes in to the brothel when the the prostitutes are dressing Liu up like a woman I though, "No friggin' way. They had to have made this part up for interfaith purposes." :lol:

 

I liked Wong's Tales of the Taoist Immortals and Tales of the Dancing Dragon too, though they are of a slightly different genre and even more fantastical. I'm a bit of a sucker for good stories.

 

Do we dare to ask you what you know about Opening the Dragons Gate? I dont think this book has been debunked yet...

I second this. I have heard rumors of embellishment and poor translation, but they might have come from Sean Denty :P (I can't recall...).

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I second this. I have heard rumors of embellishment and poor translation, but they might have come from Sean Denty :P (I can't recall...).

 

I have never compared the original edition with Cleary's translation side-by-side but in terms of content they are basically the same, for as much as I can recall. We read the original edition a few years before the english version, which I bought but never really find the time to read in depth.

The original was not a hit on the local market, at all, a book printed in many copies but seldom seen on any bookshelf around. Probably for this reason there was never much 'reviewing' as it was never a best-seller like Deng Ming Dao in the west.

I don't particolarly like it either but, as always, it is more a matter of personal tastes I guess

 

YM

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None, in my opinion

 

For those inclined in this genre I'd suggest an old 'classic' instead:

 

1590301765.jpg

 

Seven Taoist Masters

A Folk Novel of China

Translated by Eva Wong

Paperback / Shambhala Classics / 208 pages / 6 x 9

ISBN 978-1-59030-176-0 / October 2004

 

http://www.shambhala.com/html/catalog/item...9030-176-5.cfm/

 

that depics the story of the early Quanzhen group, including of course the Longmen (to be) founder Master Qiu.

 

These books, however, should be taken as 'inspirational' and not as (strictly) historical works

 

Thanks for the reference. I look forward to reading it.

 

About inspirational tales, I always took reading the stories of Kwan Sai-Hung's fictional tales strictly inspirational. Although throughout the book they do a good job at hinting and/or making references at different parts of actual practices.

 

I've read somewhere that he himself was saying that he was half german....

 

I have also read on a website that he is half German decent.

Here is the referance...

Link to Referance about Kwan being half German

However I want to be extremely clear on this I'm not claiming its false or true!

 

Peace,

WTiger

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