Nei Gong systems

[Cobie]

 

On 19/10/2025 at 9:00 AM, ChiDragon said:

道可道，非恆道

Tao can be tao'ed is not the eternal Tao.

 

道可道，非恆道

People may talk about the Dao, but it’s not the Dao that they usually practice. 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:44 PM by Cobie

[TomBrad]

On 15/10/2025 at 8:02 PM, Forestgreen said:

I'm curious, who has the time to delve deeply into two systems? 

 

On 15/10/2025 at 9:57 PM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

 

Check out this video he does three systems! I haven’t watched yet but I do one of the same neigong systems that he does.

 

 

Yes, I've done Stillness Movement.  Reading works by Nathan Brine, Damo Mitchell, hearing about Rudi's system - they all sound good.

Edited Monday at 05:44 PM by TomBrad
Providing more detailed answer.

[Sahaja]

Interesting that he says there is a  the large degree of overlaps/commonalities  of the three systems. I think that is a good thing and not really surprising to me.  I also agree with him that fa qi is a natural outcome of the process - though I’m not sure I view it as being as important as he does. However,  i think the science community may not recognize  his outcome as the experiment design of one person doing all three simultaneously is problematic. . I also think the siddhis  he emotionally refers to including are a bit more advanced than just doing fa qi. Not many people I’ve heard of doing anima (Become smaller than atom) , mahima (become as large as the universe) garima (becoming infinitely heavy) etc. Might  be a big ask for a neigong program to produce these in the timeframe provided. . Not sure I’d want them if they could! Though the siddhi prapti does sound tempting. 

[Sahaja]

Upon reflection I find this whole focus on giving someone an electric shock as the ultimate criterion for measuring the value of a system as problematic.  I do think there is a point where it’s useful for the practitioner to learn to emit qi so they can see its physical effects on something outside of their body but I see this as more of a private affair for them to understand the  process and see a physical external manifestation of what they are experiencing internally. Something to make it more real to the practitioner if they so choose. . Not as something to show the world how smart and talented they are or how wonderful their system is.  Also, for teachers, learning to share their qi with a student to help them develop is also important but again this is better done in a low key fashion so as not to create unnecessary karma.   There are some medical applications as well though there are health risks that accompany them  that shouldn’t be ignored. 
 

When I see all the mania generated by the mo pai madness (or by related things like use of empty force) it doesn’t seem mentally healthy to me. Feels more like an adolescent response to feelings of uncertainty and doubt in themselves than in self cultivation.  I think practices that generate a Mona Lisa smile and a calm abiding are more useful in life and don't carry as much ego baggage .  Traditionally powers were expected to arise more as a test of one’s character and to challenge their focus on their sadhana rather than something that was the primary goal.  I think if we ignore this traditional view there can be unnecessary unhelpful consequences that result in our having to learn this lesson again. 
 

sorry - I guess this makes me sound like someone quite archaic  in their views but just wanted to give another view to this. Thanks for listening to my rant.  

[forestofclarity]

2 hours ago, Sahaja said:

Upon reflection I find this whole focus on giving someone an electric shock as the ultimate criterion for measuring the value of a system as problematic.

 

This is what has never been explained to me. It is an unusual skill, but one that, as far as I know, requires no wisdom or compassion to develop. In fact, every tradition I'm familiar with has warned about getting lost in power-based side paths. Many spiritual seekers have a story about confounding power and wisdom. 

 

But as branding, it is brilliant. Who doesn't want unusual abilities without having to overcome the ego habits of mind? 

[Cobie]

@ChiDragon re my post:

 

On 19/10/2025 at 2:23 PM, Cobie said:

道可道，非恆道 People may talk about the Dao, but it’s not the Dao that they usually practice.

 

Are you sad about the people not following the Dao, or about my translation? 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:43 PM by Cobie

[forestofclarity]

A few takeaways from a partial listen of the video:

 

- 2 hours a day is enough for three systems? I think 2 hours was bare minimum just for Damo, and not even doing all the stuff

 

- no mention of developing morality, compassion, wisdom, spiritual qualities, etc. It's all about cool powers

 

- no ethics required, like running 

 

- masters won't let him test them with proper equipment

 

- "extraordinarily clear" evidence for extraterrestrials visiting us

 

[Master Logray]

15 hours ago, Sahaja said:

Upon reflection I find this whole focus on giving someone an electric shock as the ultimate criterion for measuring the value of a system as problematic

 

 

It is not uncommon to exhibit some "special abilities" to attract students, even though they are not really useful.   If you are going to teach, are you going to tell your prospective students that they would be imprisoned in a dark cell 12 hours a day, eating tasteless little bit of food, being pulled, twisted, bent;  sitting on invisible chair, discomfort and pain magnified; prostrate to higher authority, chanting submission during the remainder of the waking time.   There are many prisons in different countries offer these for free.  There have to be some "incentives".

[Forestgreen]

13 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

 

- 2 hours a day is enough for three systems? I think 2 hours was bare minimum just for Damo, and not even doing all the stuff

This is my experience when training a system. Around two hours a day, not doing all the stuff. That is why the idea of going into several systems parallel seens so far fetched. 

 

So either are people training multiple systems either not actually practicing the system as it is supposed to be practiced ( enoughtime, every day), or they have found very small systems. 

[Antares]

8 hours ago, Master Logray said:

It is not uncommon to exhibit some "special abilities" to attract students,

Then it is all about $$$. But wasting his yuan jing. It is like you have been collecting jing for one year and then you decided to show up with your incredible skills wasting half of what you gained during last year

[Master Logray]

42 minutes ago, Antares said:

Then it is all about $$$. But wasting his yuan jing. It is like you have been collecting jing for one year and then you decided to show up with your incredible skills wasting half of what you gained during last year

 

It may be worthwhile if doing once.   You can compare with what the healers do.   They spent a lot of Chi in healing.  Then they take quite some time to recover.   Even magicians have the same problem.   Without the limitation, we could have seen hundreds of healers working side by side, 9 to 9 like factory workers.

[ChiDragon]

22 hours ago, Cobie said:

@ChiDragon re my post:

 

 

Are you sad about the people not following the Dao, or about my translation? 

 

 

It was your personal opinionated translation.

[Cobie]

@ChiDragon It does conform with the Kroll dictionary meanings of the characters.  
 

 

Edited Wednesday at 08:01 PM by Cobie

[Antares]

19 hours ago, Master Logray said:

It may be worthwhile if doing once.   You can compare with what the healers do.   They spent a lot of Chi in healing.  Then they take quite some time to recover. 

Yes, but there are healers systems in which one can become immortal. At least I know one of them. And at the initial stage they dont do healing - they do it after some level has been achieved and their spending do not harm much. In case of Rudi's system I don't know how far one can go with it. 

[Master Logray]

41 minutes ago, Antares said:

Yes, but there are healers systems in which one can become immortal. At least I know one of them. And at the initial stage they dont do healing - they do it after some level has been achieved and their spending do not harm much. In case of Rudi's system I don't know how far one can go with it. 

 

I think it is not so ethical to ask newbie to donate their energy or whatever, until they have lots of them.

[jgd]

6 hours ago, Antares said:

Yes, but there are healers systems in which one can become immortal. At least I know one of them. And at the initial stage they dont do healing - they do it after some level has been achieved and their spending do not harm much. In case of Rudi's system I don't know how far one can go with it. 

could you tell a bit about that system?

[ChiDragon]

5 hours ago, jgd said:

there are healers systems in which one can become immortal. At least I know one of them. And at the initial stage they dont do healing -

If it doesn't do healing, then, how does it keep the body in good health to become an immortal.

[Antares]

8 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

If it doesn't do healing, then, how does it keep the body in good health to become an immortal.

They do not heal other people until they have abundance of pre heaven qi.  Also it is not only about their own qi, there is smth else that is used to heal people. I would say they are mediums. But if one is trying to heal others having their own jing leaking there will be waste of yuan jing. So persons own leakage must be stopped prior to healing of other people. And healing is just additional skill, main goal is immortality and even work on more higher levels. I think development never stops. Now compare this approach with another one mentioned above. 

14 hours ago, jgd said:

could you tell a bit about that system?

PM me 

 

 

[forestofclarity]

On 10/22/2025 at 7:51 AM, Forestgreen said:

This is my experience when training a system. Around two hours a day, not doing all the stuff. That is why the idea of going into several systems parallel seens so far fetched. 

 

I would add that I am not clear on how efficient a system can be. Damo has a lot of stuff in his system, probably in part so that it can have broad appeal since differing people start with differing capacities. 

 

I've been thinking about the Secret of the Golden Flower again lately, and it is essentially once practice with multiple steps that seems to capture the key points of neidan and Chan as reflected in classical teachings. Now people will say, yes, but you need the lineage keys to unlock the secret. Now I've seen some examples of people explaining the secret, and they essentially flip what appears to be the literal meaning on its head so it means something else entirely. So sometimes, lineage may mean "complexify," which is exactly in accordance with moving away from the Dao and deeper into creation.  And when things are systematized, the more that is lost (DDJ 38).