Is the MCO Real? (Split from Benebell Wen on the Microcosmic Orbit)

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 minutes ago, Neirong said:

The problem with these threads is usually that people want something, but they are unwilling actually to work or make a commitment to their wish. What they have left is to devalue and undermine certain skills or qualities, telling everyone how meaningless it is to have a siddhi, how irrelevant it is, and that it actually does nothing at all, being just a form of metaphysical belief or delusion.

Truth is, there is an absolutely immense difference in life experience/quality/existential status between a regular untrained human and an average cultivator. It is more than a difference in society between a homeless beggar, starving for any food scraps, and a billionaire who has life's opportunities on a silver platter. 

Simply indescribable. 

An ant telling a bird that flying is overrated 

[Forestgreen]

2 hours ago, zerostao said:

 

Once again, the "scientific" view is exposed by its limitations by disregarding the subjective and only relying on the objective.

Medical science and psychological science use both qualitative and quantitative methods. Just like the two truths in Buddhism, both are useful as long as they are not conflated with each other. 

 

Some tend to value one over the other, which technically is an "unscientific" view.

[Cobie]

 

4 hours ago, zerostao said:

 

It doesn't matter if someone believes or not; if there is functionality.

No autopsy will find a mco in a cadaver.

The cadaver is dead and no longer an active energy vessel.

There are results from running mco.

That, idk how many practitioners over the years, spanning generations, generally agree upon.

Mco is not a physical structure it is a dynamic energy pathway. 

Once again, the "scientific" view is exposed by its limitations by disregarding the subjective and only relying on the objective.

 

Edit/ I said it before and it remains true that science itself, is a belief systen

 

I feel motivated to react as (from what I read on TDB) I respect you. Problem is, sincerely, all my understanding is already expressed in my previous post (quoted below). I don’t know what more to say, so I’m going to leave this discussion now. Thank you for replying. 

 

On 20/10/2025 at 12:38 AM, Cobie said:

I experience the metaphysical, have done for 35 years now. I also have had ‘experiences’ that turned out to be hallucinations brought forth by my own mind.  I prefer to say I believe in the metaphysical. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:48 PM by Cobie

[zerostao]

50 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

 

I feel motivated to react as (from what I read on TDB) I respect you. Problem is, sincerely, all my understanding is already expressed in my previous post (quoted below). I don’t know what more to say, so I’m going to leave this discussion now. Thank you for replying. 

 

 

 

Likewise, I hold respect for you.

And find value in your post 

 

If my posture, breathing, circulation, immune system, nervous system, and calmness, have benefitted from hallucinations, that is still winning.

 

 

[Trunk]

I think that the there are levels of working with the MCO, and the extraordinary vessels as an integral dynamic.  My impression is that we have a surface understanding of “dan tian” and “extraordinary vessels”, that there are layers and we should continue to excavate.

 

[Trunk]

Some resources re: extraordinary vessels

 

https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/renintro.pdf

 

https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/duintro.pdf

 

https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/8-extraordinary-vessels-maciocia-online.pdf

 

https://johndaoproductions.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/the_8-extra_vessels-yuen.pdf

 

 

Resources to plumb, above.

My 'current view' is that I've had a very surface popularized dysfunctional view of du & ren for a very long time.  My current view is that the extraordinary vessels flow together, are integral in their dynamic.  That there are energetic and consciousness change in dynamics (as energetics shift to the extraordinary vessels) that have very much to do with pre-heaven / post-heaven (prenatal, postnatal).

[forestofclarity]

Mod note: ants vs birds moved here: 

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, forestofclarity said:

Mod note: ants vs birds moved here: 

 

Migration?

[Master Logray]

36 minutes ago, Apech said:

Migration?

 

Flying termites, also known as swarmers, are the reproductive members of a termite colony. They swarm to establish new colonies, ....

[Trunk]

My current view is that the primal motif for core nourishment is the umbilicus, in the prenatal ('pre-heaven') phase when the extraordinary vessels were more predominant. 

There are remnants of that dynamic currently:

 

1. a resonant + - polarity can be felt between the front point and corresponding back point ... if done *gently*.  You can look at this in terms of ch. medicine, & re: the nerve plexuses that go all the way through front ~ back.

 

2. this engaged resonance effortlessly causes a pulsing front ~ back which:

- nourishes core

- engages du, ren, dai, chong etc all in one swoop

 

3. This is a motif that is repeated, not only at the belly button, but at major acupoints (nerve plexuses) all up & down the center-line.  This more n' more efficiently and integrally drives the whole extraordinary vessel foundational nourishment layer.

 

      

I talk about this line of exploration (last yr 1/2 +) in this public thread and this in my PPD.

 

cheers,

Keith

 

[ChiDragon]

On 10/21/2025 at 11:24 AM, Neirong said:

It does not really matter. When someone lacks skill or experience, they only have the option to believe or not. 
 

Which is absolutely irrelevant. 

 

When you actually have the skill/quality itself, when you can see energies with an activated third eye, or have a functional working MCO, or one of hundreds other abilities, belief and faith no longer matter. 

Yes, that is a good thought. As long the practice was done correctly reached to the realm, who cares how it works. Only I do! I like to investigated and told what I think and speak out. However, some people don't know and have no idea what I know with denial. That is okay, it is because we are at a different comprehensive level.  

Edited 2 hours ago by ChiDragon

[forestofclarity]

Mod Note: Science/Scientist/Scientism discussion here: