A short essay on the subtle architecture of our inner life

[old3bob]

 

So we could follow up with why isn't pure shakti/bliss enough since it is a long, long ways advanced down the path and way ahead of the game for many of us yet is also something to be very thankful for if felt!  Btw.  it's also more or less problematic to keep speaking and conceptualizing endlessly in trying to map out the transcendent since doing that is also "not enough".   Alas, the best possible map is still only a map.  I'd say as human beings we can have and know certain levels of satisfaction in doing small or simple things well (which is enough in that moment) for then the big things (or transcendent) will fall into place  where it already is and has always has been, so to speak. 

 

That saying about chopping wood and carrying water before and after enlightenment (in a manner of speaking) is a fine one.

 

 

 

[Sahaja]

Feeling good is a natural part of the spiritual process. Qi definitely has a biochemical, feel good component to it and its experience can be very pleasant (so neidan has the same risk as other paths). The default states of calm abiding and sympathetic joy and love all naturally put a small smile on your face. I think the natural  “bliss” is likely found on any true spiritual path so one has to face it whatever path they choose. It’s yet another thing to accept as it is. Not a goal or particularly relevant, it just is. However  I think it’s quite a different thing to do when you are in it  (have gone beyond identity with the individuated mind into awareness) than when it is in you (you still identify with the individuated acquired mind). These default states are not emotions. Emotions are sensations in the body tied to specific discursive thoughts associated with and reinforcing to  the identity with the individuated acquired mind.  These natural default states are not tied to discursive thoughts. In fact their arising indicate you are moving away from discursive thoughts and toward awareness and ultimately awakening however that is defined on your path. 

Edited August 17 by Sahaja

[Nintendao]

On 8/12/2025 at 7:36 AM, Cobie said:

Yes curious.  I had wondered before about the character 萬 (wan4) the myriad [as in ‘the 1, 2, 3, the myriad’ DDJ 42].

The glyph origin is ‘scorpion’ and it also had the meaning of “religious dance; sorcery”.

 

萬 Oracle bone script:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%90%AC 

 

I saw somewhere that the scorpion represents myriad and recursion by the way its body shape resembles a fractal tree.

 

[Bindi]

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

So we could follow up with why isn't pure shakti/bliss enough since it is a long, long ways advanced down the path and way ahead of the game for many of us yet is also something to be very thankful for if felt! 
 

I would suggest that Shakti isn’t about bliss, but burning karma at the heart level. This is required as a step towards going beyond conditioning. But it’s not her job to do the next step, which is to burn karma and destroy conditioning at the head level. That’s Shiva’s job. He’s the one that goes beyond identification with the “individual acquired mind.” Shakti doesn’t. 

 

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

Btw.  it's also more or less problematic to keep speaking and conceptualizing endlessly in trying to map out the transcendent since doing that is also "not enough".  
 

 

A rough sketch that embraces the need for duality in spirituality is long overdue though. If the conscious mind doesn’t understand the importance of duality, it’s never going to lead you down the path towards Shakti and Shiva. 
 

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

Alas, the best possible map is still only a map.  I'd say as human beings we can have and know certain levels of satisfaction in doing small or simple things well (which is enough in that moment) for then the big things (or transcendent) will fall into place  where it already is and has always has been, so to speak. 

 

 

I don’t think the transcendent just falls into place, I think it’s a hard slog up a very tall mountain, and then some. Dismantling conditioning on both conscious and unconscious levels is hard work.

 

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

That saying about chopping wood and carrying water before and after enlightenment (in a manner of speaking) is a fine one.

 

 

[old3bob]

 

"I would suggest that Shakti isn’t about bliss, but burning karma at the heart level. This is required as a step towards going beyond conditioning. But it’s not her job to do the next step, which is to burn karma and destroy conditioning at the head level. That’s Shiva’s job. He’s the one that goes beyond identification with the “individual acquired mind.” Shakti doesn't"  Bindi

 

Satchitananda  is said to be It by some or many schools and is described further in the following Ai excerpt : "In Sanskrit, "Sat Chit Ananda" is written as सच्चिदानन्द. It is a compound word made up of three Sanskrit terms: sat (सत्), chit (चित्), and ananda (आनन्द). These translate to "existence," "consciousness," and "bliss," respectively. Therefore, Sat Chit Ananda is often translated as "existence-consciousness-bliss" or "truth-consciousness-bliss".   

 

This is the context I relate to when it comes to term the Shakti at its purest and deepest level.  Some schools say that is It, although other schools say Satchitananda is "Samadhi with seed" whereas  in some schools Shiva/Self is transcendent beyond all categories thus Samadhi without seed.  And yes, unless karmic "seeds" are burnt as you say, and which I'd say is done through yoga's and a teachers help, otherwise  identification in whatever category one was about will at some point come back. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"A rough sketch that embraces the need for duality in spirituality is long overdue though. If the conscious mind doesn’t understand the importance of duality, it’s never going to lead you down the path towards Shakti and Shiva."  Bindi

 

Sure, getting a handle on dealing with duality is needed and can not be by-passed but that is during transition is it not?  In other words to me Non-duality is big enough for duality, although some or many wouldn't agree with that.   As for the conscious mind I'd say it has its place along with its limits, meaning it can not deliver on the full freedom of Shakti/Shiva unity where it does not have the power or Beingness to reach.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

"I don’t think the transcendent just falls into place, I think it’s a hard slog up a very tall mountain, and then some. Dismantling conditioning on both conscious and unconscious levels is hard work."  Bindi

 

What I meant might be better said with Its already and forever in place but our attempts to nail it down with our minds is not going to reveal It, although all the hard work you speak of is our part in important preparation, while revealing Grace (an aspect of Shiva) is beyond any work or preparation that we can do of ourselves.   

-------------------------------------------

 

Another great teaching to me from Hinduism is given about Rama and Sita which has some parallels with Shiva and Parvati.

Edited August 18 by old3bob

[Bindi]

11 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

"I would suggest that Shakti isn’t about bliss, but burning karma at the heart level. This is required as a step towards going beyond conditioning. But it’s not her job to do the next step, which is to burn karma and destroy conditioning at the head level. That’s Shiva’s job. He’s the one that goes beyond identification with the “individual acquired mind.” Shakti doesn't"  Bindi

 

Satchitananda  is said to be It by some or many schools and is described further in the following Ai excerpt : "In Sanskrit, "Sat Chit Ananda" is written as सच्चिदानन्द. It is a compound word made up of three Sanskrit terms: sat (सत्), chit (चित्), and ananda (आनन्द). These translate to "existence," "consciousness," and "bliss," respectively. Therefore, Sat Chit Ananda is often translated as "existence-consciousness-bliss" or "truth-consciousness-bliss".   

 

This is the context I relate to when it comes to term Shakti at its purest and deepest level.  Some schools say that is It, although other schools say Satchitanada is "Samadhi with seed" whereas  in other schools Shiva/Self is transcendent beyond all categories thus Samadhi without seed.  And yes, unless karmic "seeds" are burnt as you say, and which I'd say is done through yoga's and a teachers help then identification in whatever category one was about will at some point de-bliss. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"A rough sketch that embraces the need for duality in spirituality is long overdue though. If the conscious mind doesn’t understand the importance of duality, it’s never going to lead you down the path towards Shakti and Shiva."  Bindi

 

Sure, getting a handle on dealing with duality is needed and can not be by-passed but that is during transition is it not?  In other words to me Non-duality is big enough for duality, although some or many wouldn't agree with that.   As for the conscious mind I'd say it has its place along with its limits, meaning it can not deliver on the full freedom of Shakti/Shiva unity where it does not have the power or Beingness to reach.

 

 

The conscious mind has to strive towards, and submit, to shiva especially. It may pale in comparison to shiva, but the conscious mind is the one that has to allow shiva to take his rightful place, and the mind has to be in a state where shiva isn’t going to ‘fry’ it. 

 

11 minutes ago, old3bob said:

"I don’t think the transcendent just falls into place, I think it’s a hard slog up a very tall mountain, and then some. Dismantling conditioning on both conscious and unconscious levels is hard work."  Bindi

 

What I meant might be better said with Its already and forever in place but our attempts to nail it down with our minds is not going to reveal It, although all the hard work you speak of is our part in important preparation, while revealing Grace (an aspect of Shiva) is beyond any work or preparation that we can do of ourselves.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

8 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

The conscious mind has to strive towards, and submit, to shiva especially. It may pale in comparison to shiva, but the conscious mind is the one that has to allow shiva to take his rightful place, and the mind has to be in a state where shiva isn’t going to ‘fry’ it. 

 

 

 

Is the throat centre involved in this process in some way?  The reason I ask is because some of what has been said reminded me of the Egyptian 'hypocephalus' disk which placed behind the head in certain burials.  The text of Spell 162 of the Book of the Dead was recited over it when a charm in the form of the divine cow (= Hathor (and possibly Shakti related)) was placed at the throat of the mummy.  She is referred to as 'the ihet cow' ...

 

" ... A great quantity of flames will envelop him completely like one who is on earth.  A very great protection which is made for the ihet cow for her son Ra when he set.  His place will be enclosed by a blaze and he will be a god in the realm of the dead and will not be repulsed from any portal of the Netherworld in very truth ..."

 

It's about asking the eye of Ra (female = Hathor) to protect using flames to burn out impurities and so on ....

 

https://egypt-museum.com/amuletic-disk-hypocephalus/

[old3bob]

14 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

The conscious mind has to strive towards, and submit, to shiva especially. It may pale in comparison to shiva, but the conscious mind is the one that has to allow shiva to take his rightful place, and the mind has to be in a state where shiva isn’t going to ‘fry’ it. 

 

 

well to me there is conscious mind that works like a computer with hardware and software,  which Spirit can see through.

 

there is also conscious mind identity as human ego which sounds more like what you mean, (?) along with it surrendering to higher Self thus knowing its place as servant and not as master as it would like to be.

 

[Cobie]

 

On 15-7-2025 at 4:12 AM, Bindi said:

... two complementary unconscious currents that I’ve come to think of as the Shiva aspects and the Shakti aspects. ...

 

imo: 

although integration is the goal, people and whole cultures tend to shift from one pole to another over time. Chinese characters sometimes show this movement. E. g. 意 (yi4) meaning

oldest glyph (Bronze inscription):    later (Han period) it became: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%84%8F 

 

 

Edited August 18 by Cobie

[BigSkyDiamond]

the only "importance" of duality for me is in recognizing all the ways it is a barrier and obstacle to wholeness.  I experience it as fragmenting, fractured, and divisve.   An analogy might be in medicine, healing.  Treating the "whole person" (far more effective) instead of parsing them into bits and pieces (far less effective).

 

One of the most powerful things i ever heard from a pracitioner was saying the treatment they provide is the same, regardless of whatever the  "pain" or "problem" is that the person presents with:  emotional pain, financial pain, physical pain, mental pain, relationship pain, career pain.  Same treatment for any of them.

 

treating the cause, not the symptoms. for that practitioner it all stems from the same cause so it all has the same treatment, the same remedy:  restoring wholeness.  This includes recognizing we are whole and not seeing ourselves as broken, that includes not being broken into a bunch of different parts.

 

Edited August 18 by BigSkyDiamond

[Bindi]

12 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Is the throat centre involved in this process in some way?  The reason I ask is because some of what has been said reminded me of the Egyptian 'hypocephalus' disk which placed behind the head in certain burials.  The text of Spell 162 of the Book of the Dead was recited over it when a charm in the form of the divine cow (= Hathor (and possibly Shakti related)) was placed at the throat of the mummy.  She is referred to as 'the ihet cow' ...

 

" ... A great quantity of flames will envelop him completely like one who is on earth.  A very great protection which is made for the ihet cow for her son Ra when he set.  His place will be enclosed by a blaze and he will be a god in the realm of the dead and will not be repulsed from any portal of the Netherworld in very truth ..."

 

It's about asking the eye of Ra (female = Hathor) to protect using flames to burn out impurities and so on ....

 

https://egypt-museum.com/amuletic-disk-hypocephalus/

i can relate to your imagery - flames enveloping completely, it’s a wonderful image for burning away impurities, but for me that really only matches with what happens in the heart. i do think there are throat ‘issues’, definitely blocks there, but in my own trajectory they were resolved in other ways. Still with Shakti, but not with fire. 

[Bindi]

13 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

well to me there is conscious mind that works like a computer with hardware and software,  which Spirit can see through.

 

there is also conscious mind identity as human ego which sounds more like what you mean, (?) along with it surrendering to higher Self thus knowing its place as servant and not as master as it would like to be.

 

Yes, I think ‘Spirit’ can see through both. The mundane or ego mind, as you put it, feels it’s in charge, I think from necessity, since without Shiva present it has no container and so has to run its own defense. Yielding consciously to Shiva can feel like annihilation, because, as you say, the ego-mind doesn’t recognise its proper place as servant and not master.

 

For reasons I don’t fully understand, it seems to me that Shiva is cast out, and when this energy tries to re-enter we resist. I had a dream at twelve of a man sitting in a chair, staring out the window, stroking a cat on his lap. He seemed both frighteningly mad and catatonic. Then I heard the words: “He is me.” That dream pulled the rug from under me, it literally broke my view of myself as a twelve year old girl, but it also set me on the path of learning to understand dreams, because I figured by understanding dreams in general I would be able to understand this dream. Now, forty years later, I believe what I had seen was ‘Shiva’, ‘Shiva-mind’, flagged as me, which I was unable to remotely comprehend then.

 

I’ve come to think we have to walk in Shiva’s shoes eventually. Now my dreams show ‘Shiva’ circling closer: a bull circling the house, a car crashing through the walls, someone breaking in through a window and trying to roll up the blinds. Allowing Shiva to re-enter is unnerving. His energy is powerful and alien, and he is no less frightening now than when I was twelve. But the difference is that today, with more cleared ground and greater understanding, I can at least try to let the process happen, even if it is not easy.

Edited August 19 by Bindi

[Lairg]

My observation is that:

 

The human, embedded in a persona, mostly has a bottom-up view of its process and future.

 

A top-down view is quite different - a profound over-lighting entity that propagates its missions through vast numbers of incarnations in galaxies, species and timelines

 

 A top-down view provides many alternative actions for the human that approaches first stage enlightenment/transparency 

 

 

[old3bob]

20 hours ago, Bindi said:

Yes, I think ‘Spirit’ can see through both. The mundane or ego mind, as you put it, feels it’s in charge, I think from necessity, since without Shiva present it has no container and so has to run its own defense. Yielding consciously to Shiva can feel like annihilation, because, as you say, the ego-mind doesn’t recognise its proper place as servant and not master.

 

For reasons I don’t fully understand, it seems to me that Shiva is cast out, and when this energy tries to re-enter we resist. I had a dream at twelve of a man sitting in a chair, staring out the window, stroking a cat on his lap. He seemed both frighteningly mad and catatonic. Then I heard the words: “He is me.” That dream pulled the rug from under me, it literally broke my view of myself as a twelve year old girl, but it also set me on the path of learning to understand dreams, because I figured by understanding dreams in general I would be able to understand this dream. Now, forty years later, I believe what I had seen was ‘Shiva’, ‘Shiva-mind’, flagged as me, which I was unable to remotely comprehend then.

 

I’ve come to think we have to walk in Shiva’s shoes eventually. Now my dreams show ‘Shiva’ circling closer: a bull circling the house, a car crashing through the walls, someone breaking in through a window and trying to roll up the blinds. Allowing Shiva to re-enter is unnerving. His energy is powerful and alien, and he is no less frightening now than when I was twelve. But the difference is that today, with more cleared ground and greater understanding, I can at least try to let the process happen, even if it is not easy.

 

Best wishes Bindi on what you are dealing with and going through...I'm not a qualified member of a Saivite school but have studied some of their teachings and have been fortunate (guest) to have met qualified members/teachers.  Considering your interest and studies of Shiva/Shakti have you met members or teachers of any of the 6 main Saivite schools for further information, help or involvement therein?  I'd say these powerful forces you are experiencing can come across in multiple ways for instance in a fierce Rudra aspect (like you describe) or in a benevolent and revealing grace aspect depending on where a person is at.  "Fear not" is a  key and bottom line saying of the higher force but that is easier heard than done for many of us struggling as human beings to take in.   Something or ego has to give - so to speak,  since it won't be Supreme Being or whatever term one relates to... I'd also say that for me the Lord Nataraja (cosmic dancer) related Saivite teachings cover the bases very well !

 

Om Shanti  Om Peace

Edited August 19 by old3bob

[Nungali]

On 8/12/2025 at 6:16 PM, Nungali said:

 

 

Its very pronounced in the  magical systems here ..... Men's  'business' and 'women's business '  and never the two should meet .... no spying on ceremony !  Mind your own business !  

 

We have a few traditional stories like that .... one girl spied ... what a story .... and that's how we got the  stars up there  ( points at what we call Scorpio  ) ... there is the girl and the boy out the front ( head of scorpion ) , those two, they are bundi , boomerang  thrown at them , the next two, over threr , they are the circle guardians chasing the law breakers ..." 

 

of course they don't see or relate the asterism to a scorpion , but their story is FULL of 'scorpionic'  themes  , just like we attribute to Scorpio .... curious that . 

 

But anyway , that big dipping head in the sky is a reminder  .... don't break law! Don't spy on ceremony ! 

 

 

I would like to put more of this here  .  ( This above post was a response to Bindi's  ;  '' I bring it up here because this thread is fundamentally about head/male/shiva and heart/female/shakti energies. ''

 

So, more on how Australian Aboriginals see this  'male / female '   system working , of course they dont see it as male and female , as such , that is a manifestation of it .... in a way .  ( Nothing is always  simple in their systems ) Also each group has a different name for this energy  and variations in applying it . However it is underlying system of a lot of what they do . 

 

SO lets refer to the two types as 1 or 2 . Everything is either a 1 or a 2 ;  places , animals , plants rocks, star groups  and of course people , only here , a man or a woman can be a 1 or a 2 . All 1's are part of a big family and 2's another family , so a 1 cannot marry a 2 ( that would be like incest . The rigid enforcement of this , in its further development   ( in some groups they have included further divisions of 1 into  2  , and 2 into 2 making 4 sub-sections  ,  and further making 16 and extended to a base 64 pattern ) have enabled small interconnected groups  to propagate and thrive without inbreeding for over 60,000 years . (I have a post elsewhere describing how this system came about ) . 

 

It extends through family in an interesting way . The following is a generalization as there are a few variations and adaptions in some places   ( eg. some still follow a  2  part subsection, some a 4 or 16 part ).  

 

Star with yourself might be the easiest way to get it .

 

You have a biological mother and  father . But all of your mothers sisters are your mothers too , with the same responsibilities  ( so no one young mum , or any mum has to look after all her children all the time  and children get a variety of experience ). The same with your father , all his brothers  are your fathers .   And all of their other children are your brothers and sisters .

 

You could have a 'Mum' younger than yourself , but you would still have to treat her like she is your mother . 

 

Your mother's  brothers and husbands are 'uncle's ' , your father's wives and sisters   are 'auntie's '  .  

 

You end up with a huge number of 'cousins ' 

 

Your nation (  see map - there were over 250  of then )  would consist of groups  (  sort of like tribes ) , they could intermarry but the same rules apply , some you could marry some you could not , as each tribe had a 'higher level' totem , and they are  compatible or not .  Totems are of two classes , another set of 1s and 2s .

 

Within the tribe are clans or family groups , again with a 'lower' level totem .   And each individual has a totem ; animal plant , part of or force in nature , all with  'moiety'  .

 

(  

each of two parts into which a thing is or can be divided.

"the tax was to be delivered in two moieties"

• Anthropology

  each of two social or ritual groups into which a people is divided, especially among Australian Aboriginal people and some North American Indians.
• a part or portion, especially a lesser share. )

   

   

  Its tempting to see it as some form of Daoism or dualistic expression , but it born from observing nature  and it was implemented by a very wise  'Lao'   - who was described as a 'visionary artist ' .  He made a model to explain it everyone  and representatives of the nations met to hear his idea / revelation   of this 'new age ' ( then the end of the ice age / great drought  a 're-greening' of Australia  and the arriving of prosperous times and 'sharing' ) .  

   

  He didnt draw trigrams or even a flow chart .... the story would have survived then, that this 'visionary-artist' did a  'painting ', it doesnt say that , it says he made an 'art-object' that he made and used to explain his idea  .... a model .  An object isnt a painting , its something like a sculpture . 

   

  Nowadays we use diagrams like these to explain some of these systems ; 

   

    

   

  I am wondering if the original model was anything like this , but in '3-D'  ?  

   

  It could be made from sticks .... different colors , bits of  fibers and skin or hair tied to bits as 'code ' ..... and if an 'object' it can be rotated   so  other relationships are revealed .  

   

  

   

   

  [ The last part is pure conjecture on my part ... but these guys were / are smart !   I remember once at a meeting a  passer-byer in a group laughed  with his mates at the 'old Aboriginal man with the paint on his face and in 'underpants'  ' ( a type of 'lap-lap' ) , an attendee at the meeting on the outskirts was offended  and approached him ; '' I will have you know that is Professor Mulwindie Gulammaray , he holds several honorary doctorates , from more than one university , is an expert and consultant in six languages and is right now giving a talk to researchers from the Australian National University , so, be on your way , or shut up and sit down and listen - you might learn something !  ]

   

  .

Edited August 20 by Nungali

[心神 ~]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

(I have a post elsewhere describing how this system came about )

 

Will you share a link to the post? I'd love to read more about this.

[Nungali]

15 hours ago, 心神 ~ said:

 

Will you share a link to the post? I'd love to read more about this.

 

I doubt I could find it  , The search engine here has never worked for me .   

 

Sorry, there is a problem

Please wait 9 seconds before attempting another search

Error code: 1C205/3

 

 

But I can link you to some source material  ' 

 

GWION ARTISTS AND WUNAN LAW: THE ORIGIN OF SOCIETY IN AUSTRALIA

 

https://www.ifrao.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/31-1-Doring.pdf

[Mark Foote]

On 8/20/2025 at 4:25 PM, Nungali said:

 

I doubt I could find it  , The search engine here has never worked for me .   

 

Sorry, there is a problem

Please wait 9 seconds before attempting another search

Error code: 1C205/3

 

 

But I can link you to some source material  ' 

 

GWION ARTISTS AND WUNAN LAW: THE ORIGIN OF SOCIETY IN AUSTRALIA

 

https://www.ifrao.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/31-1-Doring.pdf|
 

Fascinating, Captain.

Knowledge of the Wunan only becomes properly explained in intense discussion among munnumburra after days of conversational build-up, focusing with more clarity each day into a subject while intellectually participating in what is called worri unbin (‘flowing words’). The resolution and destination of these Wunan conversations are crucial to understanding something of the content and context of Gwion paintings

(p 5)

 

 

A lot of worri unbin on Dao Bums, alright...

 

Family ties to specific flora and fauna of the neighborhood, staking a claim in art on the wall. Wow.

 

 

 

 

[Bindi]

I’ve been thinking today that the subtle architecture of the human body exists on a quantum level. In most people, it is unaligned and incoherent, but the underlying driver of the system itself is intelligent, aiming for coherence. Subtle channels, chakras, qi, kundalini etc are real quantum structures and energies, and we navigate and shape them directly through consciousness, sometimes with precision, sometimes blindly.

 

Though invisible to our physical senses, these quantum structures and energies are tangible to our consciousness. Practices described in Neidan, Waidan, Kundalini Yoga, and Tibetan Buddhism such as circulating energy, purifying channels, awakening kundalini, or combining two substances, can be understood as attempts at direct manipulation of this quantum system.

 

IMO Spiritual practice, at its best, would be precise quantum engineering of consciousness: using the mind to allow the quantum subtle body system to become clear enough to unearth and evolve the indestructible core of the subtle body, the immortal pill, golden elixir, or diamond body described across traditions, which is an actual quantum energy/particle that exists within. 

By navigating, shaping, and awakening this underlying quantum system, we can cultivate the subtle forces that can ultimately transform (upgrade) consciousness itself. 
 

 

 

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Bindi said:

the underlying driver of the system itself is intelligent, aiming for coherence. Subtle channels, chakras, qi, kundalini etc are real quantum structures and energies, and we navigate and shape them directly through consciousness, sometimes with precision, sometimes blindly.

 

It seems to me that the consciousness of the human is only one of the intelligences driving the unfolding of human potential.

 

It may be that the human format has been designed to fulfil some cosmic functions.  If so, humans may be driven towards their intended purposes.  Do cosmic rivers carry humans to the cosmic ocean - regardless?

 

Those intended purposes require the structured cooperation of various intelligences that are not always within the human awareness - for example: involutionary intelligences that form chakra structures provide the means for evolutionary intelligences to achieve cosmic functionality 

 

 

Edited Thursday at 08:07 AM by Lairg

[old3bob]

14 hours ago, Bindi said:

I’ve been thinking today that the subtle architecture of the human body exists on a quantum level. In most people, it is unaligned and incoherent, but the underlying driver of the system itself is intelligent, aiming for coherence. Subtle channels, chakras, qi, kundalini etc are real quantum structures and energies, and we navigate and shape them directly through consciousness, sometimes with precision, sometimes blindly.

 

Though invisible to our physical senses, these quantum structures and energies are tangible to our consciousness. Practices described in Neidan, Waidan, Kundalini Yoga, and Tibetan Buddhism such as circulating energy, purifying channels, awakening kundalini, or combining two substances, can be understood as attempts at direct manipulation of this quantum system.

 

IMO Spiritual practice, at its best, would be precise quantum engineering of consciousness: using the mind to allow the quantum subtle body system to become clear enough to unearth and evolve the indestructible core of the subtle body, the immortal pill, golden elixir, or diamond body described across traditions, which is an actual quantum energy/particle that exists within. 

By navigating, shaping, and awakening this underlying quantum system, we can cultivate the subtle forces that can ultimately transform (upgrade) consciousness itself. 
 

 

I'd say that the "indestructible core" does not evolve, has no need to evolve, and if it did then it could also devolve;

what does is evolve is our souls (light bodies) which to me would equate to bettering and ultimately fully synchronizing to said core without anything in the way or separation.    (including even our particular minds which are apparent or aspects of the total mind which is beyond such particulars)  Also the idea of upgrading human consciousness/mind if that is what you mean is right on whereas pure consciousness or pure Shakti needs no upgrade and already is one with the indestructible core.  We could say that the motive or spiritual emotion and need to return to unbreakable Truth/Sat and Shakti are built into the billions/trillions/zillions of us forms  that are searching in every which way possible to do find that which is right under our noses...  The Hindu Sages came to a realization of that return and proclaimed,  "Om Tat Sat,  Om Tat Sat...Om Tat Sat Om.........." 

Good day

Edited Thursday at 09:34 PM by old3bob

[Bindi]

13 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

I'd say that the "indestructible core" does not evolve, has no need to evolve, and if it did then it could also devolve;

 

How do you know this? If there is an already perfect, indestructible core, then why does division arise when that perfection manifests into matter? If perfection is truly perfection, wouldn’t it remain perfect under any condition, including embodiment? Why shouldn’t evolution and devolution both be possible? Why would either be ruled out a priori? To me, it seems just as logical to consider that even the “core” is enriched through manifestation, that perfection isn’t static, but dynamic, and includes the cycles of division and return.

 

13 hours ago, old3bob said:

what does is evolve is our souls (light bodies) which to me would equate to bettering and ultimately fully synchronizing to said core without anything in the way or separation. 
 

 

I agree that our ‘subtle body/light body’ would ultimately be fully synchronised with the core, but in this process of the core being embodied and ultimately synchronised it’s possible that we actually add something, new “facets,” so to speak, to the core, like adding new facets to a diamond, improving something already perfectly adequate. 
 

13 hours ago, old3bob said:

  (including even our particular minds which are apparent or aspects of the total mind which is beyond such particulars)  Also the idea of upgrading human consciousness/mind if that is what you mean is right on whereas pure consciousness or pure Shakti needs no upgrade and already is one with the indestructible core. 
 

 

13 hours ago, old3bob said:

We could say that the motive or spiritual emotion and need to return to unbreakable Truth/Sat and Shakti are built into the billions/trillions/zillions of us forms  that are searching in every which way possible to do find that which is right under our noses...  The Hindu Sages came to a realization of that return and proclaimed,  "Om Tat Sat,  Om Tat Sat...Om Tat Sat Om.........." 

Good day

This core may be deficient or lacking the absolute perfection ascribed to it. What if this core has been perceived as a frozen endpoint, but in error, as in reality it is something that might continually unfold. After all, human claims of ultimate truth have often been revised when a clearer lens emerged. Why should this field be immune to that same principle? Why should we treat one claim as final when every other area of knowledge has evolved with clearer scrutiny?

 

 

What if the whole picture of “no evolution, no devolution” rests less on necessity and more on inherited axioms? If we never questioned axioms we could still believe that the sun revolves around the earth and that we’d drop off the edge of the ocean a few miles out from shore. I’m inclined to throw out all axioms and explore afresh. 

[old3bob]

 

I don't know much but I like the saying it "goes far and returns" (as in manifestation) to paraphrase a line from the T.T.C.;  but the secret so to speak to me is that it also or at the same time never left as transcendent Being...(as in going through evolution or devolution)  which granted sounds illogical....but I'd say perspective is one of the keys to the meaning of that little excerpt. 

 

Intellect may go a very long ways, and splitting hairs can also go a very long ways but what about when such processes end?  What then shall a soul/mind do?  Well it can only find the answer to that for itself.  (although with some help from one that has attained the synchronization mentioned which is beyond ego)  For then and adding Hari to Om Tat Sat is realized...

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

I don't know much but I like the saying it "goes far and returns" (as in manifestation) to paraphrase a line from the T.T.C.;  but the secret so to speak to me is that it also or at the same time never left as transcendent Being...(as in going through evolution or devolution)  which granted sounds illogical....but I'd say perspective is one of the keys to the meaning of that little excerpt. 

What if the ‘perfect substrates’ of Daoism, Vedanta, and similar systems were simply attempts to explain what was not understandable at the time? Today, other perspectives might offer better explanations, like an evolutionary approach. What if the subtle body is an emergent property of complex systems, arising from the interaction of energy, information, and consciousness? Over time, it naturally self-organises toward coherence, integration, and functional refinement, producing the effects traditions describe as alignment. I agree that the subtle energy body exists, but I prefer to explore how it emerges naturally, rather than relying solely on traditional frameworks to tell me where it comes from or where it’s going.

 

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

Intellect may go a very long ways, and splitting hairs can also go a very long ways but what about when such processes end?  What then shall a soul/mind do?  Well it can only find the answer to that for itself.  (although with some help from one that has attained the synchronization mentioned which is beyond ego)  For then and adding Hari to Om Tat Sat is realized...

 

[Lairg]

14 minutes ago, Bindi said:

What if the subtle body is an emergent property of complex systems

 

Occasionally I add/accept new capacities/intelligences to my light body.  Mostly they are offered but sometimes I have to go in search