A short essay on the subtle architecture of our inner life

[old3bob]

 

So we could follow up with why isn't pure shakti/bliss enough since it is a long, long ways advanced down the path and way ahead of the game for many of us yet is also something to be very thankful for if felt!  Btw.  it's also more or less problematic to keep speaking and conceptualizing endlessly in trying to map out the transcendent since doing that is also "not enough".   Alas, the best possible map is still only a map.  I'd say as human beings we can have and know certain levels of satisfaction in doing small or simple things well (which is enough in that moment) for then the big things (or transcendent) will fall into place  where it already is and has always has been, so to speak. 

 

That saying about chopping wood and carrying water before and after enlightenment (in a manner of speaking) is a fine one.

 

 

 

[Sahaja]

Feeling good is a natural part of the spiritual process. Qi definitely has a biochemical, feel good component to it and its experience can be very pleasant (so neidan has the same risk as other paths). The default states of calm abiding and sympathetic joy and love all naturally put a small smile on your face. I think the natural  “bliss” is likely found on any true spiritual path so one has to face it whatever path they choose. It’s yet another thing to accept as it is. Not a goal or particularly relevant, it just is. However  I think it’s quite a different thing to do when you are in it  (have gone beyond identity with the individuated mind into awareness) than when it is in you (you still identify with the individuated acquired mind). These default states are not emotions. Emotions are sensations in the body tied to specific discursive thoughts associated with and reinforcing to  the identity with the individuated acquired mind.  These natural default states are not tied to discursive thoughts. In fact their arising indicate you are moving away from discursive thoughts and toward awareness and ultimately awakening however that is defined on your path. 

Edited Sunday at 03:22 PM by Sahaja

[Nintendao]

On 8/12/2025 at 7:36 AM, Cobie said:

Yes curious.  I had wondered before about the character 萬 (wan4) the myriad [as in ‘the 1, 2, 3, the myriad’ DDJ 42].

The glyph origin is ‘scorpion’ and it also had the meaning of “religious dance; sorcery”.

 

萬 Oracle bone script:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%90%AC 

 

I saw somewhere that the scorpion represents myriad and recursion by the way its body shape resembles a fractal tree.

 

[Bindi]

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

So we could follow up with why isn't pure shakti/bliss enough since it is a long, long ways advanced down the path and way ahead of the game for many of us yet is also something to be very thankful for if felt! 
 

I would suggest that Shakti isn’t about bliss, but burning karma at the heart level. This is required as a step towards going beyond conditioning. But it’s not her job to do the next step, which is to burn karma and destroy conditioning at the head level. That’s Shiva’s job. He’s the one that goes beyond identification with the “individual acquired mind.” Shakti doesn’t. 

 

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

Btw.  it's also more or less problematic to keep speaking and conceptualizing endlessly in trying to map out the transcendent since doing that is also "not enough".  
 

 

A rough sketch that embraces the need for duality in spirituality is long overdue though. If the conscious mind doesn’t understand the importance of duality, it’s never going to lead you down the path towards Shakti and Shiva. 
 

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

Alas, the best possible map is still only a map.  I'd say as human beings we can have and know certain levels of satisfaction in doing small or simple things well (which is enough in that moment) for then the big things (or transcendent) will fall into place  where it already is and has always has been, so to speak. 

 

 

I don’t think the transcendent just falls into place, I think it’s a hard slog up a very tall mountain, and then some. Dismantling conditioning on both conscious and unconscious levels is hard work.

 

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

That saying about chopping wood and carrying water before and after enlightenment (in a manner of speaking) is a fine one.

 

 

[old3bob]

 

"I would suggest that Shakti isn’t about bliss, but burning karma at the heart level. This is required as a step towards going beyond conditioning. But it’s not her job to do the next step, which is to burn karma and destroy conditioning at the head level. That’s Shiva’s job. He’s the one that goes beyond identification with the “individual acquired mind.” Shakti doesn't"  Bindi

 

Satchitananda  is said to be It by some or many schools and is described further in the following Ai excerpt : "In Sanskrit, "Sat Chit Ananda" is written as सच्चिदानन्द. It is a compound word made up of three Sanskrit terms: sat (सत्), chit (चित्), and ananda (आनन्द). These translate to "existence," "consciousness," and "bliss," respectively. Therefore, Sat Chit Ananda is often translated as "existence-consciousness-bliss" or "truth-consciousness-bliss".   

 

This is the context I relate to when it comes to term the Shakti at its purest and deepest level.  Some schools say that is It, although other schools say Satchitananda is "Samadhi with seed" whereas  in some schools Shiva/Self is transcendent beyond all categories thus Samadhi without seed.  And yes, unless karmic "seeds" are burnt as you say, and which I'd say is done through yoga's and a teachers help, otherwise  identification in whatever category one was about will at some point come back. 

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"A rough sketch that embraces the need for duality in spirituality is long overdue though. If the conscious mind doesn’t understand the importance of duality, it’s never going to lead you down the path towards Shakti and Shiva."  Bindi

 

Sure, getting a handle on dealing with duality is needed and can not be by-passed but that is during transition is it not?  In other words to me Non-duality is big enough for duality, although some or many wouldn't agree with that.   As for the conscious mind I'd say it has its place along with its limits, meaning it can not deliver on the full freedom of Shakti/Shiva unity where it does not have the power or Beingness to reach.

 

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"I don’t think the transcendent just falls into place, I think it’s a hard slog up a very tall mountain, and then some. Dismantling conditioning on both conscious and unconscious levels is hard work."  Bindi

 

What I meant might be better said with Its already and forever in place but our attempts to nail it down with our minds is not going to reveal It, although all the hard work you speak of is our part in important preparation, while revealing Grace (an aspect of Shiva) is beyond any work or preparation that we can do of ourselves.   

-------------------------------------------

 

Another great teaching to me from Hinduism is given about Rama and Sita which has some parallels with Shiva and Parvati.

Edited Monday at 04:40 PM by old3bob

[Bindi]

11 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

"I would suggest that Shakti isn’t about bliss, but burning karma at the heart level. This is required as a step towards going beyond conditioning. But it’s not her job to do the next step, which is to burn karma and destroy conditioning at the head level. That’s Shiva’s job. He’s the one that goes beyond identification with the “individual acquired mind.” Shakti doesn't"  Bindi

 

Satchitananda  is said to be It by some or many schools and is described further in the following Ai excerpt : "In Sanskrit, "Sat Chit Ananda" is written as सच्चिदानन्द. It is a compound word made up of three Sanskrit terms: sat (सत्), chit (चित्), and ananda (आनन्द). These translate to "existence," "consciousness," and "bliss," respectively. Therefore, Sat Chit Ananda is often translated as "existence-consciousness-bliss" or "truth-consciousness-bliss".   

 

This is the context I relate to when it comes to term Shakti at its purest and deepest level.  Some schools say that is It, although other schools say Satchitanada is "Samadhi with seed" whereas  in other schools Shiva/Self is transcendent beyond all categories thus Samadhi without seed.  And yes, unless karmic "seeds" are burnt as you say, and which I'd say is done through yoga's and a teachers help then identification in whatever category one was about will at some point de-bliss. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

"A rough sketch that embraces the need for duality in spirituality is long overdue though. If the conscious mind doesn’t understand the importance of duality, it’s never going to lead you down the path towards Shakti and Shiva."  Bindi

 

Sure, getting a handle on dealing with duality is needed and can not be by-passed but that is during transition is it not?  In other words to me Non-duality is big enough for duality, although some or many wouldn't agree with that.   As for the conscious mind I'd say it has its place along with its limits, meaning it can not deliver on the full freedom of Shakti/Shiva unity where it does not have the power or Beingness to reach.

 

 

The conscious mind has to strive towards, and submit, to shiva especially. It may pale in comparison to shiva, but the conscious mind is the one that has to allow shiva to take his rightful place, and the mind has to be in a state where shiva isn’t going to ‘fry’ it. 

 

11 minutes ago, old3bob said:

"I don’t think the transcendent just falls into place, I think it’s a hard slog up a very tall mountain, and then some. Dismantling conditioning on both conscious and unconscious levels is hard work."  Bindi

 

What I meant might be better said with Its already and forever in place but our attempts to nail it down with our minds is not going to reveal It, although all the hard work you speak of is our part in important preparation, while revealing Grace (an aspect of Shiva) is beyond any work or preparation that we can do of ourselves.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

8 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

The conscious mind has to strive towards, and submit, to shiva especially. It may pale in comparison to shiva, but the conscious mind is the one that has to allow shiva to take his rightful place, and the mind has to be in a state where shiva isn’t going to ‘fry’ it. 

 

 

 

Is the throat centre involved in this process in some way?  The reason I ask is because some of what has been said reminded me of the Egyptian 'hypocephalus' disk which placed behind the head in certain burials.  The text of Spell 162 of the Book of the Dead was recited over it when a charm in the form of the divine cow (= Hathor (and possibly Shakti related)) was placed at the throat of the mummy.  She is referred to as 'the ihet cow' ...

 

" ... A great quantity of flames will envelop him completely like one who is on earth.  A very great protection which is made for the ihet cow for her son Ra when he set.  His place will be enclosed by a blaze and he will be a god in the realm of the dead and will not be repulsed from any portal of the Netherworld in very truth ..."

 

It's about asking the eye of Ra (female = Hathor) to protect using flames to burn out impurities and so on ....

 

https://egypt-museum.com/amuletic-disk-hypocephalus/

[old3bob]

14 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

The conscious mind has to strive towards, and submit, to shiva especially. It may pale in comparison to shiva, but the conscious mind is the one that has to allow shiva to take his rightful place, and the mind has to be in a state where shiva isn’t going to ‘fry’ it. 

 

 

well to me there is conscious mind that works like a computer with hardware and software,  which Spirit can see through.

 

there is also conscious mind identity as human ego which sounds more like what you mean, (?) along with it surrendering to higher Self thus knowing its place as servant and not as master as it would like to be.

 

[Cobie]

 

On 15-7-2025 at 4:12 AM, Bindi said:

... two complementary unconscious currents that I’ve come to think of as the Shiva aspects and the Shakti aspects. ...

 

imo: 

although integration is the goal, people and whole cultures tend to shift from one pole to another over time. Chinese characters sometimes show this movement. E. g. 意 (yi4) meaning

oldest glyph (Bronze inscription):    later (Han period) it became: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%84%8F 

 

 

Edited Monday at 02:26 PM by Cobie

[BigSkyDiamond]

the only "importance" of duality for me is in recognizing all the ways it is a barrier and obstacle to wholeness.  I experience it as fragmenting, fractured, and divisve.   An analogy might be in medicine, healing.  Treating the "whole person" (far more effective) instead of parsing them into bits and pieces (far less effective).

 

One of the most powerful things i ever heard from a pracitioner was saying the treatment they provide is the same, regardless of whatever the  "pain" or "problem" is that the person presents with:  emotional pain, financial pain, physical pain, mental pain, relationship pain, career pain.  Same treatment for any of them.

 

treating the cause, not the symptoms. for that practitioner it all stems from the same cause so it all has the same treatment, the same remedy:  restoring wholeness.  This includes recognizing we are whole and not seeing ourselves as broken, that includes not being broken into a bunch of different parts.

 

Edited Monday at 02:34 PM by BigSkyDiamond

[Bindi]

12 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Is the throat centre involved in this process in some way?  The reason I ask is because some of what has been said reminded me of the Egyptian 'hypocephalus' disk which placed behind the head in certain burials.  The text of Spell 162 of the Book of the Dead was recited over it when a charm in the form of the divine cow (= Hathor (and possibly Shakti related)) was placed at the throat of the mummy.  She is referred to as 'the ihet cow' ...

 

" ... A great quantity of flames will envelop him completely like one who is on earth.  A very great protection which is made for the ihet cow for her son Ra when he set.  His place will be enclosed by a blaze and he will be a god in the realm of the dead and will not be repulsed from any portal of the Netherworld in very truth ..."

 

It's about asking the eye of Ra (female = Hathor) to protect using flames to burn out impurities and so on ....

 

https://egypt-museum.com/amuletic-disk-hypocephalus/

i can relate to your imagery - flames enveloping completely, it’s a wonderful image for burning away impurities, but for me that really only matches with what happens in the heart. i do think there are throat ‘issues’, definitely blocks there, but in my own trajectory they were resolved in other ways. Still with Shakti, but not with fire. 

[Bindi]

13 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

well to me there is conscious mind that works like a computer with hardware and software,  which Spirit can see through.

 

there is also conscious mind identity as human ego which sounds more like what you mean, (?) along with it surrendering to higher Self thus knowing its place as servant and not as master as it would like to be.

 

Yes, I think ‘Spirit’ can see through both. The mundane or ego mind, as you put it, feels it’s in charge, I think from necessity, since without Shiva present it has no container and so has to run its own defense. Yielding consciously to Shiva can feel like annihilation, because, as you say, the ego-mind doesn’t recognise its proper place as servant and not master.

 

For reasons I don’t fully understand, it seems to me that Shiva is cast out, and when this energy tries to re-enter we resist. I had a dream at twelve of a man sitting in a chair, staring out the window, stroking a cat on his lap. He seemed both frighteningly mad and catatonic. Then I heard the words: “He is me.” That dream pulled the rug from under me, it literally broke my view of myself as a twelve year old girl, but it also set me on the path of learning to understand dreams, because I figured by understanding dreams in general I would be able to understand this dream. Now, forty years later, I believe what I had seen was ‘Shiva’, ‘Shiva-mind’, flagged as me, which I was unable to remotely comprehend then.

 

I’ve come to think we have to walk in Shiva’s shoes eventually. Now my dreams show ‘Shiva’ circling closer: a bull circling the house, a car crashing through the walls, someone breaking in through a window and trying to roll up the blinds. Allowing Shiva to re-enter is unnerving. His energy is powerful and alien, and he is no less frightening now than when I was twelve. But the difference is that today, with more cleared ground and greater understanding, I can at least try to let the process happen, even if it is not easy.

Edited yesterday at 01:34 AM by Bindi

[Lairg]

My observation is that:

 

The human, embedded in a persona, mostly has a bottom-up view of its process and future.

 

A top-down view is quite different - a profound over-lighting entity that propagates its missions through vast numbers of incarnations in galaxies, species and timelines

 

 A top-down view provides many alternative actions for the human that approaches first stage enlightenment/transparency 

 

 

[old3bob]

20 hours ago, Bindi said:

Yes, I think ‘Spirit’ can see through both. The mundane or ego mind, as you put it, feels it’s in charge, I think from necessity, since without Shiva present it has no container and so has to run its own defense. Yielding consciously to Shiva can feel like annihilation, because, as you say, the ego-mind doesn’t recognise its proper place as servant and not master.

 

For reasons I don’t fully understand, it seems to me that Shiva is cast out, and when this energy tries to re-enter we resist. I had a dream at twelve of a man sitting in a chair, staring out the window, stroking a cat on his lap. He seemed both frighteningly mad and catatonic. Then I heard the words: “He is me.” That dream pulled the rug from under me, it literally broke my view of myself as a twelve year old girl, but it also set me on the path of learning to understand dreams, because I figured by understanding dreams in general I would be able to understand this dream. Now, forty years later, I believe what I had seen was ‘Shiva’, ‘Shiva-mind’, flagged as me, which I was unable to remotely comprehend then.

 

I’ve come to think we have to walk in Shiva’s shoes eventually. Now my dreams show ‘Shiva’ circling closer: a bull circling the house, a car crashing through the walls, someone breaking in through a window and trying to roll up the blinds. Allowing Shiva to re-enter is unnerving. His energy is powerful and alien, and he is no less frightening now than when I was twelve. But the difference is that today, with more cleared ground and greater understanding, I can at least try to let the process happen, even if it is not easy.

 

Best wishes Bindi on what you are dealing with and going through...I'm not a qualified member of a Saivite school but have studied some of their teachings and have been fortunate (guest) to have met qualified members/teachers.  Considering your interest and studies of Shiva/Shakti have you met members or teachers of any of the 6 main Saivite schools for further information, help or involvement therein?  I'd say these powerful forces you are experiencing can come across in multiple ways for instance in a fierce Rudra aspect (like you describe) or in a benevolent and revealing grace aspect depending on where a person is at.  "Fear not" is a  key and bottom line saying of the higher force but that is easier heard than done for many of us struggling as human beings to take in.   Something or ego has to give - so to speak,  since it won't be Supreme Being or whatever term one relates to... I'd also say that for me the Lord Nataraja (cosmic dancer) related Saivite teachings cover the bases very well !

 

Om Shanti  Om Peace

Edited 7 hours ago by old3bob