request to pardon Daniel

[Cobie]

Dear admods. Yes I agree, he was banned for very good reasons. But could there maybe be special dispensation please?  I did enjoy some of his posts and miss his input. 
 

 

@liminal_luke  misses him too  

 

17 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Where´s Daniel when we need him?

 

 

Edited Friday at 11:19 PM by Cobie

[Taomeow]

3 hours ago, Cobie said:

Dear admods. Yes I agree, he was banned for very good reasons. But could there maybe be special dispensation please?  I did enjoy some of his posts and miss his input. 
 

 

@liminal_luke  misses him too  

 

 

 

 

I don't know what his transgressions were as I didn't much follow his posts, but I remember he was being goaded...  maybe it's an extenuating factor?  (Maybe not -- like I said, I haven't seen the bulk of the interactions, but that was my impression from what little I've seen.)      

[Nungali]

Well ... if a bunch of people can be pardoned for trying to overthrow US democracy from within   ....... why not ? 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

Some people run hot.  Let´s say there´s a debate that runs on for more than ten pages.  Frustrations start to flare a bit, things get a tad antagonistic, somebody alerts the mods.  A cool down warning is issued.  Spectators in the know gather their popcorn because things have reached a critical state and what happens next will determine everything.  Daniel is obviously a very intelligent guy, amazingly knowledgable about a few subjects, but cooling down is not in his repetoire -- and so he got the boot.  This is my take on what happened.

 

Do I miss him?  I do.  Ditto for Shadow_Self, another wonderful Bum prone to overheating.  I can´t say -- won´t say --- that the mods made the wrong decision in either of these cases; I think they debated in good faith, followed their guidelines, took the actions they felt best served the board.  But I had good relationships with both of these Bums and know that they´re good-hearted people who had something to contribute to conversation here.  Alas, when the moment came to let go they couldn´t do it.  

Edited Saturday at 10:41 AM by liminal_luke

[zerostao]

A link to this thread has been posted in the Steward's Lounge for review.

[Giles]

Good. 👍🏻 😊

 

Edited Saturday at 06:41 PM by Giles
Full stop/Period 😂

[Giles]

🤣

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Some people run hot.  Let´s say there´s a debate that runs on for more than ten pages.  Frustrations start to flare a bit, things get a tad antagonistic, somebody alerts the mods.  A cool down warning is issued.  Spectators in the know gather their popcorn because things have reached a critical state and what happens next will determine everything.  Daniel is obviously a very intelligent guy, amazingly knowledgable about a few subjects, but cooling down is not in his repetoire -- and so he got the boot.  This is my take on what happened.

 

Do I miss him?  I do.  Ditto for Shadow_Self, another wonderful Bum prone to overheating.  I can´t say -- won´t say --- that the mods made the wrong decision in either of these cases; I think they debated in good faith, followed their guidelines, took the actions they felt best served the board.  But I had good relationships with both of these Bums and know that they´re good-hearted people who had something to contribute to conversation here.  Alas, when the moment came to let go they couldn´t do it.  

 

 

[liminal_luke]

39 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

So you don´t think Shadow_Self is a wonderful Bum?

 

 

[Nungali]

It may be 'wonderful' .... I was just surprised you knew about the  'overheated'  bit .  

 

 

I suppose if the problem persists , his tail could be removed   ?   

 

 

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

It may be 'wonderful' .... I was just surprised you knew about the  'overheated'  bit .  

 

 

You´re surprised I know that Shadow_Self can overheat?  I have many faults and deficiencies.  I eat too many donuts and have never been able to do a pullup,; I won´t be any help if our car breaks down on the highway.  But one thing I can do is read. 

[Gerard]

No. A wolf will always remain a wolf. 

 

For instance, in Buddhism:

 

Then the Venerable Mahamoggallana thought: "Concerning which person has the Lord said, 'The gathering is not pure, Ananda'?" And the Venerable Mahamoggallana, comprehending the minds of the whole Order of bhikkhus with his own mind, saw that person sitting in the midst of the Order of bhikkhus — immoral, wicked, of impure and suspect behavior, secretive in his acts, no recluse though pretending to be one, not practicing the holy life though pretending to do so, rotten within, lustful and corrupt. On seeing him he arose from his seat, approached that person, and said: "Get up, friend. You are seen by the Lord. You cannot live in communion with the bhikkhus." But that person remained silent.

 

Source:

 

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.5.05.irel.html

 

 

Edited Monday at 10:10 AM by Gerard

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

No. A wolf will always remain a wolf. ...

 

A very nasty ad hominum indeed; Daniel never was and never will be a "wolf". 

 

 

[Nungali]

Geeze  !   

 

I had many an 'ad hominem' from him and gave them back with toasted cheese on ...... but I don't recall us ever going as far as 

 

"   immoral, wicked, of impure and suspect behavior, secretive in his acts, no recluse though pretending to be one, not practicing the holy life though pretending to do so, rotten within, lustful and corrupt ... "  * 

 

 

!  You could post a Poll about it Coby    

 

 

*  

Edit ;  well , not all in one sentence together .  I certainly received the first three from him .  and other stuff ... and    Ummmm ....   maybe not 'ad hominem' , as it was not directly aimed at me but ....   something  something , about my Mother   ?  

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Nungali

[old3bob]

 

inductive reactance not recognized kicks butt..

 

 

[Mark Foote]

Reading more of the passage that Gerard posted (same source):

A second time and a third time the Venerable Mahamoggallana told that person to get up, and a second time and a third time that person remained silent. Then the Venerable Mahamoggllana took that person by the arm, pulled him outside the gate, and bolted it. Then he approached the Lord and said: "Revered sir, I have ejected that person. The assembly is quite pure. Revered sir, let the Lord recite the Patimokkha to the bhikkhus."

 

"It is strange, Moggallana, it is remarkable, Moggallana, how that stupid person should have waited until he was taken by the arm."

 

Then the Lord addressed the bhikkhus: "From now on, bhikkhus, I shall not participate in the Uposatha observance or recite the Patimokkha. From now on you yourselves should participate in the Uposatha observance and recite the Patimokkha. It is impossible, bhikkhus, it cannot happen, that the Tathagata should participate in the Uposatha observance and recite the Patimokkha with a gathering that is not pure.

 

 

So the right thing to do was probably for the moderators to realize the situation could be repeated in the future, and after Daniel's ejection, withdraw from the recitations of transgressions that is Dao Bums altogether.

Just kidding!  What a strange world.

I was ok with Daniel, but just before he got ejected, I had the impression that he was stringing people along to spring a secret agenda. Sort of like:
 

 

[Jenn]

I think the permanent, throw the keys away and never reconsider bans should be reserved for safety issues: threats, stalking, hate-speech, trolling, spamming, doxing, character assassinations, etc. For other issues, I would support to a cool down period and a second chance if the person is interested in returning and agrees not to repeat whatever caused the ban.

 

I didn't interact with him much, but there was a significant change in his posting prior to the ban - I don't know what prompted it, but there are some possible causes that should be considered for reinstatement, for instance, he may have been going through something behind the scenes.

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

Reading more of the passage that Gerard posted (same source):

A second time and a third time the Venerable Mahamoggallana told that person to get up, and a second time and a third time that person remained silent. Then the Venerable Mahamoggllana took that person by the arm, pulled him outside the gate, and bolted it. Then he approached the Lord and said: "Revered sir, I have ejected that person. The assembly is quite pure. Revered sir, let the Lord recite the Patimokkha to the bhikkhus."

 

"It is strange, Moggallana, it is remarkable, Moggallana, how that stupid person should have waited until he was taken by the arm."

 

Then the Lord addressed the bhikkhus: "From now on, bhikkhus, I shall not participate in the Uposatha observance or recite the Patimokkha. From now on you yourselves should participate in the Uposatha observance and recite the Patimokkha. It is impossible, bhikkhus, it cannot happen, that the Tathagata should participate in the Uposatha observance and recite the Patimokkha with a gathering that is not pure.

 

 

So the right thing to do was probably for the moderators to realize the situation could be repeated in the future, and after Daniel's ejection, withdraw from the recitations of transgressions that is Dao Bums altogether.

Just kidding!  What a strange world.

I was ok with Daniel, but just before he got ejected, I had the impression that he was stringing people along to spring a secret agenda. Sort of like:
 

 

 

 

That was part of his 'tactical BS' ;  continually about to reveal the undeniable evidence of what he was claiming and what a few disputes were about ... then, as these types do, try to muddy those waters and do it elsewhere .  Never delivering the promised goods . 

 

Like a drone ... with no delivery cargo . 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Jenn said:

I think the permanent, throw the keys away and never reconsider bans should be reserved for safety issues: threats, stalking, hate-speech, trolling, spamming, doxing, character assassinations, etc.

 

Well, he scored 5 of those  out of your list ! 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jenn said:

 

For other issues, I would support to a cool down period and a second chance if the person is interested in returning and agrees not to repeat whatever caused the ban.

 

Sounds fair enough. 

 

1 hour ago, Jenn said:

 

I didn't interact with him much, but there was a significant change in his posting prior to the ban - I don't know what prompted it, but there are some possible causes that should be considered for reinstatement, for instance, he may have been going through something behind the scenes.

 

And going through something here as well ....  a deconstructing of his religious programming  - that will  cause either of two reactions or one response  ;    to get angry and try to defend  and attack using every trick in the book , or feel confused and lost , the response is to reassess and re-navigate to a new  understanding ... once truth has been revealed to you .   Of course, its common practice to shoot the messenger . 

 

I also find not many people pay attention or remember .   I don't know how many times over the years here I have laughed in the face of people being able to 'do things' over the internet .. like healing, or 'chi transference ' or tarot readings .    I mentioned that several times to Daniel, yet when I offered to 'exorcise ' someone  via DBs forum  (  )   he , and some others took umbrage  and reacted as if I was serious . 

 

But that wasn't the root of his problems and him deciding to go on the attack ... I know exactly how that happened .  Because I DO pay attention and  remember .  I pointed that out several times . He of course tried to switch it back, muddy the water, use ad hominem , and every  'dialogue trick' in the book .   Now most of that will work with the general ignorant population  ( which is probably how people like that develop these 'averse skills'  ). 

 

But not all Daobums  be that generally ignorant   

 

 

 

I detected  it earlier  as an undercurrent  and then later it was more of the same  surfacing and  being aired , it wasn't a new thing that developed . He had an ingrained and programmed problem .  Also he often b boasted how well things were going elsewhere ... but that probably BS too . 

 

The fact of the matter is ; he was being an arse and getting away with it  ..... until he tried it on the mods ... THEN  it was decided he had an issue .