Christianity

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

Am I to be offended or flattered?  

That depends on whether he is  being Iranaeus or Northrop Frye.

[Nungali]

23 hours ago, Apech said:

Why is Christianity such a strange religion?  

 

I am surprised that since I was bought up and surrounded by that paradigm .... it still seems a wack-a-doodle crazy shit system . So that's saying something about it !

 

When you are confronted by it there are several things you are expected to accept:

 

- there is a supreme being who created the universe

 

That isnt unusual for religion.

 

- this being impregnated a virgin 

 

Ditto .  'God animals' ravishing  human women  (including virgins )  is common .  I think Zeus was the worst, he had several goes at it .

 

- the child grew up to perform miracles and so on .

 

Not that rare , but now it starts to get weird , in the later 'theology' about this  , which is basically ;  Magic done by God / profits is a 'miracle'   and can only be done by them .... well, stuff like that can be done by others but that isnt a miracle ... that is evil and the work of the devil .

 

- he was crucified, died and then rose from the dead

 

Two things here ;

1 .  Isnt that 'good news "  ? It would be great if it was true .... we would irrefutable proof that when we die ... we live again !   Wonderful !   That should be the message .  But what do we get instead ?   A death cult !   You go to church, you dont have a glorious resurrected man shining over the altar , no  golden spirit emerging from a tomb  ..... no 'roll away the stone' .

 

No, you get a tortured , dying, gasping,  bleeding crucified   image of cruelty and horror .   Its a death cult .... they all where back then (in the Age of Osiris  .... its ended , but , well, you know how attached to old forms we get ) .

 

But here is the good news  folks !  It doesnt matter if you get fucked over down here , you will get your just rewards after , in heaven . And people that fucked you over will burn in hell .... for ever  ( serves em right ! ) .  So ... buckle up[ and knuckle down and report for duty each day to the machine , obey the man and  and dont rock the boat  ... and it will all be good ...... after you die .

 

This may be one of the biggest scams in history !

 

2.  WTF did God think he was doing ?  ( The following ,  courtesy of Kurt Vonnegut's grandfather ) .  What God should have done was  open the heavens at the beginning of the crucifixion  and bellow " How dare you do that to my Son ! "  Take him down, heal him, and punish the wrong doers ... throw some lightening around and " All these people are my children ... from now on, any one that tries to harm or oppress them gets this ! "   and he scorches a few Roman arses and leaves everyone in terror of ever being an arsehole again . But no ... Jesus dies a horrible death , he calls out to God for help .... and is totally ignored ... and dies .

 

way to go God ... good lesson;  ....  dont rely on God , keep yer head down  and dont fight the power of the state !

 

Now, other religions have people who perform miracles (siddhis) and so on.  And some have creator Gods also.  But if you approach these religions and ask about siddhis and so on - the usual response will be 'forget about it, its not important'.

 

Except all the ones that did do that ... for 'religious purposes'  eg  Sai Baba .

 

But with Christianity it is central that not only these things happened but you believe that they did.  You have to accept.  

 

These factual assertions provoke questioning.  Because they are given as facts then they require proof.  Can a virgin get pregnant without having sex with a man?  Can a man perform miracles?  Can someone rise from the dead?  It flies in the face of our normal experience.  Hence the opposing position - atheism which refutes all these things, mostly on the basis that they are outside the experience of all of us.  We have never witnessed any of these things.  So why would we believe them?

 

Because belief need not be rational . The problem comes when believing and  knowing and thinking and assuming all get run together . 

 

You don't get anything called Abuddhism, or Adaoism ... why?  Because although there are many people who are not Buddhist or Daoist the upfront claims made by Buddhism and Daoism do not provoke refutation.  Whether or not there was a historical Buddha is actually unimportant to the dharma - as with Lao Tzu ... they do not hinge on stated historical facts in the way Christianity does.

 

At least Catholics have the Pope , who issues variations and modifications of 'belief systems'  ... they are lucky to have someone to tell them when God has changed his mind about something .

 

[Cobie]

 

15 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

… Humans connected to their souls are called "believers". Humans disconnected from their souls are called "atheists". Humans trying to reconnect to their souls are called 'thedaobums.com forumers".

“religio is derived from religare: re (again) + ligare (bind or connect)”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio#:~:text=Modern scholars such as Tom,Divinae institutiones%2C IV%2C 28. 

 

Edited May 17 by Cobie

[old3bob]

 

their is an escape velocity/formula for physical things on the earth to reach orbit,   there is also an "escape velocity", so to speak, for us earthbound souls to visit or reach higher realms;  I'd say for such to take place (in using the following analogy) one needs to reach out their hand to higher forces and for higher forces to reach in and take that hand for there to be enough energy for that to happen...for true sincerity (for one) can not be denied or ignored.  (as some may say or imply about higher forces)

 

Edited May 17 by old3bob

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, Cobie said:

“religio is derived from religare: re (again) + ligare (bind or connect)”

exactly. same as yoga

8 hours ago, Taomeow said:

Am I to be offended or flattered?  

totally flattered because gnosticism is the most elitist and the only feminist one of all the christianities out there

8 hours ago, silent thunder said:

impregnating of Mary ......Mary seemed to lack the ability to give consent to the process, due to the deliverance of the Angelic message that she had 'been chosen' by god.  Was Mary allowed to say no?

sorry to bear even more disturbing tidings. but... in that day and age all women were impregnated without their consent given that the marriage was decided by the parents 

[Apech]

7 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

exactly. same as yoga

totally flattered because gnosticism is the most elitist and the only feminist one of all the christianities out there

sorry to bear even more disturbing tidings. but... in that day and age all women were impregnated without their consent given that the marriage was decided by the parents 

Luke 1:38

 

And Mary said, “Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.” 
 

= consent

 

[Taoist Texts]

35 minutes ago, Apech said:

= consent

whew, finally some good news!

[Mark Foote]

On 5/16/2024 at 3:49 PM, Nungali said:

 

But no ... Jesus dies a horrible death , he calls out to God for help .... and is totally ignored ... and dies .

 

way to go God ... good lesson;  ....  dont rely on God , keep yer head down  and dont fight the power of the state !
 

"My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" is a phrase that appears both in the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible, in the Book of Psalms, as well as in the New Testament of the Christian Bible, as one of the sayings of Jesus on the cross, according to Matthew 27:46 and also Mark 15:34.

...In the New Testament, the phrase is the only of the seven Sayings of Jesus on the cross that appears in more than one Gospel.
 

... Matthew ESV 27:46:

Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
 

Mark ESV 15:34:

And at the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, for what have you forsaken me?"

 

(Wikipedia, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?")

 

I think Thomas got poor Jesus on a caravan going east.

I had a professor at UC Santa Cruz, who said that his home-town folk in the south of India believed Thomas came there, and was stoned to death there.  They were all Thomas Christians.  

Is there a tomb of Jesus, in Kashmir?  A tomb with a stone carved with footprints that show having been pierced as though by crucifixion?

The images of Jesus in the Christian churches, aren't they like a visual representation of the sacrifice necessary to take Jesus within and realize the will of God in action?  The step from the top of the hundred-foot pole...
 

Shishuang said, “How do you step from the top of the hundred-foot pole?”
 

Changsha said, “You who sit on the top of a hundred-foot pole,
although you have entered the Way, it is not yet genuine.
Take a step from the hundred-foot pole
and the worlds of the Ten Directions are your total body.
 

Excerpt from a Verse:
The peach trees, without words, make a path.
 

—Gateless Gate, Case 46 & Book of Serenity, Case 79

(https://www.pacificzen.org/library/koan/shishuangs-hundred-foot-pole-gg46-bs79/)

[old3bob]

 

more mind blowing info in contrast to orthodox Christianity can also be found in,  "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda.

 

[oak]

Isn't Buddhism a strange religion ?

"According to tradition, the historical Buddha lived from 563 to 483 B.C., although scholars postulate that he may have lived as much as a century later. He was born to the rulers of the Shakya clan, hence his appellation Shakyamuni, which means “sage of the Shakya clan.” The legends that grew up around him hold that both his conception and birth were miraculous. His mother, Maya, conceived him when she dreamed that a white elephant entered her right side (1976.402). She gave birth to him in a standing position while grasping a tree in a garden (1987.417.1). "

 

And this was just the beginning of things...

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, oak said:

Isn't Buddhism a strange religion ?

"According to tradition, the historical Buddha lived from 563 to 483 B.C., although scholars postulate that he may have lived as much as a century later. He was born to the rulers of the Shakya clan, hence his appellation Shakyamuni, which means “sage of the Shakya clan.” The legends that grew up around him hold that both his conception and birth were miraculous. His mother, Maya, conceived him when she dreamed that a white elephant entered her right side (1976.402). She gave birth to him in a standing position while grasping a tree in a garden (1987.417.1). "

 

And this was just the beginning of things...

Giving birth standing is not so unusual - the Egyptians did this also.

[oak]

4 minutes ago, Apech said:

Giving birth standing is not so unusual - the Egyptians did this also.

I would call that logical linear Egyptian thinking.

[oak]

On 16/05/2024 at 12:14 AM, Apech said:

 Can a virgin get pregnant without having sex with a man?  

 

Regarding the "imaculate conception" problem I think Meister Eckhart got it.

 

"We are all meant to be mothers of God...for God is always needing to be born."

 

I always wondered if in fact Mary wasn't the historical Jesus and the Catholic church new it all along.

Edited May 18 by oak

[steve]

On 5/15/2024 at 7:14 PM, Apech said:

Why is Christianity such a strange religion?  

 

Aren't they all?

 

Quote

 

When you are confronted by it there are several things you are expected to accept:

 

- there is a supreme being who created the universe

- this being impregnated a virgin 

- the child grew up to perform miracles and so on

- he was crucified, died and then rose from the dead

 

Now, other religions have people who perform miracles (siddhis) and so on.  And some have creator Gods also.  But if you approach these religions and ask about siddhis and so on - the usual response will be 'forget about it, its not important'.

 

But with Christianity it is central that not only these things happened but you believe that they did.  You have to accept.  

 

I find the mythology and assertions of other religions to be equally fantastical (born of a lotus? dissolving into rainbows? riding dragons in the sky?) but the emphasis on acceptance and belief in Christianity is remarkable. There was a time when religion provided reassuring answers to challenging questions (and they still do in some ways for some people) but that has largely been supplanted by a deepening and broadening of understanding through rational thought and experimentation. 

 

One thing that occurs to me is that requiring belief in far-fetched stories that are clearly without any demonstrable foundation (or even common sense) is the perfect method to control minds and actions. If you are successful with it in childhood, you can be assured of a high rate of long term compliance. I vividly recall the first time I was told the story of Abraham and Isaac as a child. I was expected to accept that the all-powerful, all-loving creator of me and the universe found it advisable to demand a human being murder their infant child with unconditional obedience (and to emulate that unconditional obedience?!). It was the beginning and end of my interest and trust in Judaism as an authority and resource for ethics and morality. Reading the Old Testament further reinforced the ludicrous idea that this document is a basis for universal morality. Christianity is a bit different for me in that it is not the silly beliefs I find problematic, or even the expectation of acceptance, but the complete lack of correlation between the current and historical behavior of Christians and the teachings of their savior.

 

Demanding belief would also be an effective and efficient tool for proselytization, the focus of Christianity and Islam over millennia. Judaism explicitly discourages it and it is rarely found among Daoists, Hindus, or (to a lesser extent) Buddhists. It would be tricky and time consuming to have people show you how well they have adopted rituals and lifestyle or perfected meditation practice and litanies. Far more efficient to require a profession of belief on pain of torture or slaughter. Judaism and Islam, IME, are not too far off from Christianity in terms of requiring belief and faith, particularly when you look at the more orthodox and observant populations. The curricula of religious Jewish and Islamic institutions are shockingly insular and defensive. I have a friend that tried to teach history in an orthodox Jewish school and was muzzled and threatened, quitting at the end of one semester.

 

When I consider the Old and New Testaments and the Quran I see little more than archaic and unsophisticated tales designed to control minds and manipulate populations. Certainly each of those Abrahamic religions has practices that have the potential to bring people to a deeper understanding of themselves and the cosmos (Jesuit spiritual exercises, Kabbalah, Sufi practices) but these esoteric practices have little to do with how the vast majority of people engage with their religions. The fact that practice based engagement with religion is more prevalent in Asian religions as compared to Abrahamic religions may be correlated with the (lack of) emphasis on belief.

 

Quote

 

These factual assertions provoke questioning.  Because they are given as facts then they require proof.  Can a virgin get pregnant without having sex with a man?  Can a man perform miracles?  Can someone rise from the dead?  It flies in the face of our normal experience.  Hence the opposing position - atheism which refutes all these things, mostly on the basis that they are outside the experience of all of us.  We have never witnessed any of these things.  So why would we believe them?

 

That is precisely the point. You believe them because you are told to, you are indoctrinated to be obedient or you are ostracized or worse. The actual story doesn't matter as long it is fantastic and without any demonstrable foundation, a test of obedience.

 

Quote

 

You don't get anything called Abuddhism, or Adaoism ... why?  Because although there are many people who are not Buddhist or Daoist the upfront claims made by Buddhism and Daoism do not provoke refutation.  Whether or not there was a historical Buddha is actually unimportant to the dharma - as with Lao Tzu ... they do not hinge on stated historical facts in the way Christianity does.

 

?

 

I've also not seen anything called Ajudaism, Achristianity, or Aislam. 无神论 means atheism in Mandarin and नास्तिकता in Hindi. Clearly these terms are pointing to disbelief in the religious tenets of Daoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism. The tradition of atheistic reasoning and debate in Hinduism and Vedic religions is well-established and ancient (https://blog.apaonline.org/2020/06/16/the-untold-history-of-indias-vital-atheist-philosophy/). I've seen estimates of 40% of the Chinese population being atheist or agnostic and about 15-20% in India. It is likely that these trends are related at least as much to political, social, and cultural factors as to the specific characteristics of different religions but your point is well taken that the expectation of unconditional belief and obedience is curious and, for me, disappointing. I suspect it is more a reflection of politics and social engineering than religion. 

 

[old3bob]

so what some don't get imo is that unconditionally throwing out all the babies with the bathwater is also a form of being or having a spiritually destructive and obedient (dis) belief.

 

btw Spirit will try and use any form as a vehicle to get through our thick skulls, 

evil will try to do the same with any form to corrupt and destroy...

 

btw I'd say that what is REAL in the vastness of all the upper, middle and lower astral realms or  dimension's and or "dream time" worlds does not lend itself well to what is only known and understandable per human intellectual reasoning...thus being able to step off a "hundred foot pole" would at least be problematic!

 

 

 

Edited May 18 by old3bob

[liminal_luke]

3 hours ago, steve said:

 

 The fact that practice based engagement with religion is more prevalent in Asian religions as compared to Abrahamic religions may be correlated with the (lack of) emphasis on belief.

 

 

I think of Jewish observance -- praying, studying Torah, keeping Shabbat, etc -- as practices meant to cultivate a person spiritually in a way that´s analogous to meditation in Buddhism.  Whether or not they actually work to that effect in the average case is an open question.  Certainly you are not the first Jewish person to find a spiritual home in an Asian tradition.  They don´t call us "wandering Jews" for nothin´.

[steve]

17 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I think of Jewish observance -- praying, studying Torah, keeping Shabbat, etc -- as practices meant to cultivate a person spiritually in a way that´s analogous to meditation in Buddhism.  Whether or not they actually work to that effect in the average case is an open question.  Certainly you are not the first Jewish person to find a spiritual home in an Asian tradition.  They don´t call us "wandering Jews" for nothin´.

 

I agree one can cultivate spirit through prayer, ritual, and study, whether in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Daoism, etc... That said, for me at least, the meditative practices I've learned in Bön and Daoism were far more direct and effective than ritual, prayer, or study. I think this is a very personal thing. I once read a wonderful book about the subject called The Jew in the Lotus by Rodger Kamenetz. It explored the phenomenon of Jewish predominance among Western practitioners of Eastern religion, Buddhism in particular. One of the points it made was that between the desire of Jews in diaspora to fit in and avoid drawing attention to themselves and the widespread slaughter of masters of esoteric practice in the Holocaust, relatively little of the mystical aspects of Judaism have survived intact and what has is difficult to access. This was suggested as one reason why so many Jews gravitate to Asian spiritual traditions. 

[Mark Foote]

8 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

more mind blowing info in contrast to orthodox Christianity can also be found in,  "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda.

 

I did a search on "Autobiography of a Yogi Jesus".

Among the search results:

 

What was yogi Bear's famous saying?
 

 

The quick summary window revealed:

Perhaps his most famous of all: "It ain't over 'til it's over." "Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical." On posterity: "I always thought that record would stand until it was broken."

 

 

Gee--I always thought it was "Smarter than the average bear!"

 

Give us a hint, old3bob!

[Mark Foote]

8 hours ago, oak said:

 

Isn't Buddhism a strange religion ?
 

"According to tradition, the historical Buddha lived from 563 to 483 B.C., although scholars postulate that he may have lived as much as a century later. He was born to the rulers of the Shakya clan, hence his appellation Shakyamuni, which means “sage of the Shakya clan.” The legends that grew up around him hold that both his conception and birth were miraculous. His mother, Maya, conceived him when she dreamed that a white elephant entered her right side (1976.402). She gave birth to him in a standing position while grasping a tree in a garden (1987.417.1). "

 

And this was just the beginning of things...
 

You didn't give a source, on your quote. 

 

As to "born to the rulers of the Sakyan clan":
 

I know that while my father, the Sakyan, was ploughing, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, aloof from pleasures of the senses, aloof from unskilled states of mind, I entered on the first meditation, which is accompanied by initial thought and discursive thought, is born of aloofness, and is rapturous and joyful, and while abiding therein, I thought: ‘Now could this be a way to awakening?’ Then, following on my mindfulness, Aggivissana, there was the consciousness: This is itself the Way to awakening. This occurred to me, Aggivissana: ‘Now, am I afraid of that happiness which is happiness apart from sense-pleasures, apart from unskilled states of mind?’ This occurred to me…: I am not afraid of that happiness which is happiness apart from sense-pleasures, apart from unskilled states of mind.’
 

(MN 1 246-247, Pali Text Society Vol I pg 301)

 

 

I'm thinking the rulers of the Sakyan clan didn't plow fields much, and Gautama was therefore probably not born to a ruler of the Sakyan clan.

 

His aunt raised him, as his mother died at childbirth.  Can't give a source on that, but I think it's commonly accepted.  It was his aunt who, many years later, appealed to Gautama to admit woman to the order--or rather, Gautama's attendant Ananda appealed to Gautama on her behalf.  Three times Ananda asked, and on the third Gautama relented and admitted them, warning that it would shorten the life of the Order from a thousand to five hundred years ("The Gotamid", Pali Text Society AN vol IV p181)

One of the most amazing events in the history of Buddhism was the first schism, when the order of monks couldn't agree on whether or not an arahant (an enlightened individual) could have a wet dream (could be seduced by a Succubus, in their sleep).  I believe that split was the beginning of the distinction between Theravadin and Mahayanin traditions (this from "Indian Buddhism", by A. K. Warder).  A strange religion getting stranger.

 

Gautama put forward a way of living that he said was:

 

… something peaceful and choice, something perfect in itself, and a pleasant way of living too.   

 

(SN V 320-322, Pali Text Society SN V p 285)

 

That way of living, Gautama said, was his way of living both before and after enlightenment.  The fact that he recommended a way of living that could be realized without enlightenment gets lost, in all the hullabaloo about enlightenment.  

A favorite passage from the Pali sermons:

 

But when walking along the highway, Nagita, I see nothing whatever in front nor behind, it suits me, even over the calls of nature. 

 

(AN VI, IV 42 Pali Text Society vol 3 p 243)

 

Buddhism is a strange religion!

 

 

Edited May 18 by Mark Foote

[oak]

28 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

You didn't give a source, on your quote. 

 

I didn't, found the text somewhere online and sorry if it is inaccurate. The point was to show that the Buddha's conception and birth isn't less strange than the one of Jesus.

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

I did a search on "Autobiography of a Yogi Jesus".

Among the search results:

 

What was yogi Bear's famous saying?
 

The quick summary window revealed:

Perhaps his most famous of all: "It ain't over 'til it's over." "Baseball is 90 percent mental. The other half is physical." On posterity: "I always thought that record would stand until it was broken."

 

Gee--I always thought it was "Smarter than the average bear!"

 

Give us a hint, old3bob!

 

you probably read that book by Paramahansa Yogananda, the well known Yogi/Swami around 45+ years ago like i did?   So how getting Fred Flintstone or Yogi Berra mixed in there is on you...LOL  

[Mark Foote]

9 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

you probably read that book by Paramahansa Yogananda, the well known Yogi/Swami around 45+ years ago like i did?   So how getting Fred Flintstone or Yogi Berra mixed in there is on you...LOL  
 

 

Saw it in the book store many times, but never bought or read it.

Just wondering what he said about Jesus--if he said anything about Yogi Bear, that would be a bonus! 

 

[old3bob]

9 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

Saw it in the book store many times, but never bought or read it.

Just wondering what he said about Jesus--if he said anything about Yogi Bear, that would be a bonus! 
 

 

well the house is on fire but you still have some time to read it...

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

"My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?" is a phrase that appears both in the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible, in the Book of Psalms, as well as in the New Testament of the Christian Bible, as one of the sayings of Jesus on the cross, according to Matthew 27:46 and also Mark 15:34.

...In the New Testament, the phrase is the only of the seven Sayings of Jesus on the cross that appears in more than one Gospel.
 

... Matthew ESV 27:46:

Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which is, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
 

Mark ESV 15:34:

And at the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, my God, for what have you forsaken me?"

 

(Wikipedia, "My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?")

 

I think Thomas got poor Jesus on a caravan going east.

I had a professor at UC Santa Cruz, who said that his home-town folk in the south of India believed Thomas came there, and was stoned to death there.  They were all Thomas Christians.  

Is there a tomb of Jesus, in Kashmir?  A tomb with a stone carved with footprints that show having been pierced as though by crucifixion?

The images of Jesus in the Christian churches, aren't they like a visual representation of the sacrifice necessary to take Jesus within and realize the will of God in action?  The step from the top of the hundred-foot pole...
 

Shishuang said, “How do you step from the top of the hundred-foot pole?”
 

Changsha said, “You who sit on the top of a hundred-foot pole,
although you have entered the Way, it is not yet genuine.
Take a step from the hundred-foot pole
and the worlds of the Ten Directions are your total body.
 

Excerpt from a Verse:
The peach trees, without words, make a path.
 

—Gateless Gate, Case 46 & Book of Serenity, Case 79

(https://www.pacificzen.org/library/koan/shishuangs-hundred-foot-pole-gg46-bs79/)

 

Well, it seems at least two people got that .

 

Maybe I am past being a daobums ?

 

Me :  God 'forsook' Jesus - not only is it a death cult, its one without hope ."

 

Response ; A citation to what I thought people would know what I am talking about ..... okay then .  But then some variegates in translation with the same translation  in English .... errrmmmm ... okay then .

 

Then weird shit about Kashmir ( via Thomas   ) .... scars on feet ???? !  Must be Jesus .  Then some weird linking to the top of the pole  ( that you made ) .

Then references to some practice about the top of the pole  that Shishuang made .

 

I suppose one is supposed to try and link that with the crucifixion and what Jesus did ?

 

I must be thick, as when I peer into the astral I see a sea of 'new awareness' enlightenees nodding in approval  as their minds have  been able to comprehend this twisted path .

 

( At least I didnt get cited passages of  Pali canon  - long ones that is )

 

Oh wait ... here comes the nurse with my anti-grumpy medication  .... half a mo'.

 

........    < gulp >  ............

 

 

 

    Thank you for your contribution     

 

 

 

Edited May 18 by Nungali

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Apech said:

Giving birth standing is not so unusual - the Egyptians did this also.

 

Of course , comparing things to what the Egyptians did gives them normalcy    

 

" Here you go  .... eat this lettuce . . . .   I just jacked off on it .... well, actually, my mum did it for me . 

....    and now it will make him have my baby  ..... mwa ha ha haaarrr  /"

 

Spoiler

Now afterward, (at) evening time, bed was prepared for them, and they both lay down. But during the night, Seth caused his phallus to become stiff and inserted it between Horus’s thighs. Then Horus placed his hands between his thighs and received Seth’s semen. Horus / went to tell his mother Isis: help me, Isis, my mother, come and see what Seth has done to me. And he opened his hand(s) and let her see Seth’s semen. She let out a loud shriek, seized the copper (knife), and cut off his hand(s) that were equivalent. Then she fetched some fragrant ointment and applied it to Horus’s phallus. She caused it to become stiff and inserted it into a pot, and he caused his semen to flow down into it.

 

Isis at morning time went carrying the semen of Horus to the garden of Seth and said to Seth’s gardener: What sort of vegetable / is it that Seth eats here in your company? So the gardener told her: he doesn’t eat any vegetable here in my company except lettuce. And Isis added the semen of Horus onto it. Seth returned according to his daily habit and ate the lettuce, which he regularly ate. Thereupon he became pregnant with the semen of Horus. 

 

-  Chester Beatty Papyrus I