Putting together/comparison Yoga and Daoist Cultivation terminology.

[tommyprotramp]

I've putted together Yogic and Daoist cultivation terms together for the same/similar practices.

Maybe it will be of help for someone.

Chinese terms are in pinyin.

 

Yoga.

Xiu/Xiuyang/Yangsheng.

 

Pratyahara.

Neiguan + Neishi + Neiting.

 

Asana.

Daoyin/Waigong.

 

Pranayama.

Qigong.

 

Prana Vidya.

Waiqi Liaofa.

 

Dharana.

Yigong.

 

Dhyana.

Zuowang.

 

Yama + Niyama.

Sanbao.

 

Samadhi.

Shenming.

Edited May 10 by tommyprotramp

[tommyprotramp]

Couldn't find Sanskrit equivalent for Neidan.

Equivalent for Waidan is Rasayana/Rasavada.

[Sahaja]

I think it would be more accurate and interesting to identify sentences briefly describing the practices and tools used under each term to allow people to identify for themselves where there may be similarities.  In trying to reduce it to a one word equivalence it loses a lot/gets oversimplified and in some cases there is more not in common than in common in the practices equated.    (e.g. pranayama and qi gong). 
 

[Taoist Texts]

13 hours ago, tommyprotramp said:

Couldn't find Sanskrit equivalent for Neidan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amrita

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bindu_(symbol)

13 hours ago, tommyprotramp said:

Maybe it will be of help for someone.

nice effort. however that someone will have to keep in mind that these are western terms for the western fantasies about the original. There is a word for these words  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation 

Edited May 11 by Taoist Texts

[tommyprotramp]

5 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

however that someone will have to keep in mind that these are western terms for the western fantasies about the original.

 

What do you mean?

[tommyprotramp]

11 hours ago, Sahaja said:

I think it would be more accurate and interesting to identify sentences briefly describing the practices and tools used under each term to allow people to identify for themselves where there may be similarities.

 

We can do this together. 👻

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, tommyprotramp said:

What do you mean?

i mean there is a western fake  "yoga" and there is a real yoga. which one do you mean in your glossary above?

Edited May 11 by Taoist Texts

[tommyprotramp]

14 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

i mean there is a western fake  "yoga" and there is a real yoga. which one do you mean in your glossary above?

 

Wasn't western fake yoga limited to asanas?

In the glossary you see 8 limbs of Yoga. I added Prana Vidya which is ancient part of yogic practices closely associated with Pranayama.

The source of those 8 limbs seem to be Ashtanga Yoga. Is Ashtanga fake?

[Taoist Texts]

8 minutes ago, tommyprotramp said:

Is Ashtanga fake?

the real yoga is an ethnic-exclusive and/or caste-exclusive religion. anything with a name yoga on it which is not that - is fake.

[old3bob]

that's kind of  like saying:

 

the real energy is an ethnic-exclusive and/or caste-exclusive religion. anything with a name energy on it which is not that - is fake.

 

which is absurd...

•  

[old3bob]

 

True Yogas are like true sciences, thus not really bound by ethnic or caste exclusive religions,  granted various yogas can be found to be related to and have ethnic and religious type forms but even those are not the Source of Yogas or spiritual sciences if you will, which are (more or less) beyond  human limits thus beyond only human derived ethnical or religious forms or sources.

Edited May 12 by old3bob

[dwai]

On 5/10/2024 at 4:29 PM, tommyprotramp said:

Yama + Niyama.

Sanbao.

I don't think the mapping is accurate. Sanbao refers to "Jing-Qi-Shen." 

Yama + Niyama are related to the conduct of the practitioner

 

Yamas (Don'ts)	Niyamas (Do's)
Ahimsa: Non-violence (avoid causing harm to others through thoughts, words, or actions)	Saucha: Cleanliness/Purity (maintain cleanliness of body, mind, and surroundings)
Satya: Truthfulness (refrain from lying or deceiving others)	Santosha: Contentment (cultivate gratitude and satisfaction with what you have)
Asteya: Non-stealing (avoid taking what is not freely given)	Tapas: Self-discipline (practice self-control and dedication to spiritual growth)
Brahmacharya: Continence/Moderation (practice moderation in all aspects of life, particularly in sensual pleasures)	Svadhyaya: Self-study (engage in introspection, study spiritual texts, and seek self-understanding)
Aparigraha: Non-greed (avoid excessive attachment to material possessions)	Ishvara Pranidhana: Surrender to a Higher Power (cultivate faith, devotion, and surrender to a higher power or purpose)

[dwai]

On 5/10/2024 at 4:32 PM, tommyprotramp said:

 

Couldn't find Sanskrit equivalent for Neidan.

 

tantra - though it is a much larger topic than neidan 

[tommyprotramp]

On 22.05.2024 at 3:29 PM, dwai said:

I don't think the mapping is accurate. Sanbao refers to "Jing-Qi-Shen." 

Yama + Niyama are related to the conduct of the practitioner

 

Yes, but don't forget about many different meanings...

Jing, Qi and Shen is one meaning. Another is: 

• 慈 Ci - compassion, love, mercy, gentleness.
• 儉 Jian - moderation, restraint, frugality.
• 不敢為天下先 Bugan Wei Tianxia Xian - I will not dare to be first in the world.

So we can call this different meaning of Sanbao: Three Virtues. 

[Cobie]

9 hours ago, tommyprotramp said:

…

• 慈 Ci - compassion, love, mercy, gentleness.
• 儉 Jian - moderation, restraint, frugality.
• 不敢為天下先 Bugan Wei Tianxia Xian - I will not dare to be first in the world.

… Sanbao: Three Virtues. 

Exactly. That’s what Laozi said in DDJ Ch. 67,  “我 有 三 寶 … 慈 … 儉  … 不敢為天下先 “ 

 

Edited May 24 by Cobie

[tommyprotramp]

ब्रह्मन् Braman/Brahman = Tao/Dao 道

धर्म Darma/Dharma = Te/De 德

[tommyprotramp]

रासायन Rasayana = Waidan 外丹 = External Alchemy

रसशास्त्र Rasashastra = Neidan 内丹 = Internal Alchemy

रसवाद Rasavada (Alchemy) = Rasayana + Rasashastra

 

तन्त्र Tantra: scientific method, scientific work, doctrine, the right way of doing things - correct way/method, system of philosophy, secret teachings, science of Siddhis - development of psychic and paranormal abilities.

 

[tommyprotramp]

ह Ha (moon) + ठ Ṭha (sun) = हठ Hatha.
So Haṭha could be translated as Yinyang.

 

हठयोग Hathayoga - Union of the Moon and the Sun, Yoga of the Moon and the Sun, Yinyang Yoga. 👻
योग Yoga - union, unification.
हठ Hatha - strength.
So strength has a feminine aspect (Yin, Moon) and a masculine aspect (Yang, Sun). Cool Sanskrit!

 

Hathayoga itself is a set of conscious and active practices that aim to achieve harmony of the bodymind by balancing the energy of प्राण Prana in the two main channels of नदी Nadi: इड Iḍa (Yin, Moon), पिङ्गल Pingala (Yang, Sun). The female aspect of Prana can also be called शक्ति Shakti, and the male aspect शिव Shiva, or Vishnu Shakti (the power/principle of Vishnu - Yin) and Shiva Shakti (the power/principle of Shiva - Yang).

 

On the graphic we see the Indian symbol षट्कोण Shatkona in a Tibetan mandala, which is the equivalent of the Chinese Yinyang.

At first glance, it represents the perfect harmony of two opposites, but in reality, like Yinyang, it is a symbol of the trinity त्रिमूर्ति Trimurti: ब्रह्मन् Brahman (Tao), विष्णु Vishnu (Yin), शिव Shiva (Yang).

This symbol is also known as the Star of David, symbol of Judaism, coincidence?

 

Edited June 4 by tommyprotramp

[tommyprotramp]

Depending on the context, Chinese De is equivalent to both Dharma and Ishvara.

• De as the reflection of God/Dao in all that has been created is equivalent to Ishvara.
• De as virtue is equivalent to Dharma.
• De is also equivalent to Dharma as the universal eternal principle of everything, the direction in which everything moves, in this sense De is synonymous with Dao as the Way.

Dao as God/Creator/Source is Brahman.
Dao as the Way is Dharma.

[ChiDragon]

On 5/10/2024 at 2:32 PM, tommyprotramp said:

Couldn't find Sanskrit equivalent for Neidan.

Neidan (內丹) is an esoteric Chinese Taoist terminology. It is a unique term in Taoist mysterious philosophy. I don't think there is any equivalent for Neidan in other cultures!

[tommyprotramp]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Neidan (內丹) is an esoteric Chinese Taoist terminology. It is a unique term in Taoist mysterious philosophy. I don't think there is any equivalent for Neidan in other cultures!

 

In India the general term for Alchemy, both external and internal, is Rasavada. In Rasavada, Rasayana is about external alchemical work, with potions and elixirs, with the goal of creating Amrita - the elixir of immortality. Rasashastra is about working with internal juices of the body, so we can say that equivalent of Neidan in Indian terminology is Rasashastra.

 

In Greece equivalent of Neidan is Theurgy aka Divine Magic. 

 

The ultimate purpose of Neidan is to unite with the Dao. Dao is the other name for God. Christian monks from Athos practice meditation with the purpose of union with God, they call it Hesychasm.

 

This is also a purpose of Sufi, which is mix of Yoga and Islam.

Edited June 5 by tommyprotramp

[ChiDragon]

On 6/5/2024 at 2:30 PM, tommyprotramp said:

The ultimate purpose of Neidan is to unite with the Dao. Dao is the other name for God.

In Taoism, I don't think the purpose of Neidan is to unite whth the Dao. It is because Tao is not another name for God. According to the Tao Te Ching, Dao is existed before any god.

 

Chapter 4 The Fathomless Tao.
1.道沖而用之或不盈。

2.淵兮似萬物之宗。
3.挫其銳
4.解其紛，
5.和其光，
6.同其塵，
7.湛兮似或存。
8.吾不知誰之子，
9.象帝之先。 

1. Tao is a vessel and its function seems inexhaustible. 
2. Abyss, aha! It seems like the ancestry of all things.
3/7. Fathomless, aha! Unconscious or conscious.
4/8. I don't know whose son he is,
5/9. It seems like before the heavenly god.

***** lines 3 through 6 seem to be out of context. They were reappeared in Chapter 56*****
 

Edited Monday at 10:20 PM by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

On 6/5/2024 at 2:30 PM, tommyprotramp said:

In India the general term for Alchemy, both external and internal, is Rasavada. In Rasavada, Rasayana is about external alchemical work, with potions and elixirs, with the goal of creating Amrita - the elixir of immortality. Rasashastra is about working with internal juices of the body, so we can say that equivalent of Neidan in Indian terminology is Rasashastra.

The internal Taoist Alchemy is separated from external. It is because the external method causes death by using poisonous elements. Since the external alchemy had failed, the Taoist went to the internal alchemy which is called Neidan. The Neidan uses the three intangible ingredients called jing chi shen(精氣神) to form the elixir. Indeed, Neidan works out much better and gives good result for longevity than external alchemy.

Edited June 8 by ChiDragon

[johndoe2012]

It is the same for all religions and philosophies. Non duality, the end of the personal self and no subject-object distinction. 

 

Some call it God, some call it Nirvana, some call it Dao. 

[Bindi]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:17 AM, tommyprotramp said:

ह Ha (moon) + ठ Ṭha (sun) = हठ Hatha.
So Haṭha could be translated as Yinyang.

 

हठयोग Hathayoga - Union of the Moon and the Sun, Yoga of the Moon and the Sun, Yinyang Yoga. 👻
योग Yoga - union, unification.
हठ Hatha - strength.
So strength has a feminine aspect (Yin, Moon) and a masculine aspect (Yang, Sun). Cool Sanskrit!

 

Hathayoga itself is a set of conscious and active practices that aim to achieve harmony of the bodymind by balancing the energy of प्राण Prana in the two main channels of नदी Nadi: इड Iḍa (Yin, Moon), पिङ्गल Pingala (Yang, Sun). The female aspect of Prana can also be called शक्ति Shakti, and the male aspect शिव Shiva, or Vishnu Shakti (the power/principle of Vishnu - Yin) and Shiva Shakti (the power/principle of Shiva - Yang).
 

 

I agree the two side channels are “Yin” and “Yang”, but I don’t agree that they are synonymous with Shakti and Shiva, as Shakti and Shiva are the polarities associated with the central channel specifically and are an entirely separate issue. 

 

On 5/6/2024 at 1:17 AM, tommyprotramp said:

On the graphic we see the Indian symbol षट्कोण Shatkona in a Tibetan mandala, which is the equivalent of the Chinese Yinyang.

At first glance, it represents the perfect harmony of two opposites, but in reality, like Yinyang, it is a symbol of the trinity त्रिमूर्ति Trimurti: ब्रह्मन् Brahman (Tao), विष्णु Vishnu (Yin), शिव Shiva (Yang).

This symbol is also known as the Star of David, symbol of Judaism, coincidence?