Cultivating the mind through the body

[Maddie]

My original interest at the beginning of my journey was Qigong which led to an interest in Taoism. Although I found Taoism confusing and I had a hard time getting explanations to my questions so I eventually turned to Buddhism. As most people know Buddhism emphasizes the mind. It cultivates the mind through the mind primarily. 

 If I understand correct there is an aspect of Taoism that accesses the mind through the body? Lately I find this concept interesting and would like to know more about this and how it works.

[ChiDragon]

16 minutes ago, Maddie said:

My original interest at the beginning of my journey was Qigong which led to an interest in Taoism. Although I found Taoism confusing and I had a hard time getting explanations to my questions so I eventually turned to Buddhism. As most people know Buddhism emphasizes the mind. It cultivates the mind through the mind primarily. 

 If I understand correct there is an aspect of Taoism that accesses the mind through the body? Lately I find this concept interesting and would like to know more about this and how it works.

The modern definition of Chi Kung is adjusting the body, cultivating the mind and regulating the breathing. These are the three significant factors of Chi Kung must be considered. Hence, Chi Kung cannot be accomplished just by adjusting the body and cultivating the mind without regulating the breathing.

Adjusting the body and cultivating the mind are not too difficult but regulating the breathing is the hardest part.
 

The movements of the body are controlled by the mind. The practice of movements will be registered in the brain and the mind will be more flexible to react spontaneously. Also, breathing is affecting the mind. The practice of good breathing habit will help to send more oxygen to the brain. That will keep the brain cells healthy to have a strong mind. Thus both of these two factors has a great influence affecting the health of the mind.

 

[Forestgreen]

2 hours ago, Maddie said:

As most people know Buddhism emphasizes the mind. It cultivates the mind through the mind primarily. 

 If I understand correct there is an aspect of Taoism that accesses the mind through the body? Lately I find this concept interesting and would like to know more about this and how it works.

Buddhism cultivates the mind through any means available.  In some traditions,  that includes through the body. 

That is based on the Theravada abhidhamma, where the dhammas include, translated to a modern language, how the brain process sensory stimuli.

 

Jhana states affect this, but going there is difficult. Sati does this, but is based on a high level of ability. 

So some, like the Shaolin tradition I am involved in, developed moving practices that help the practitioners to process old and new impressions, including emotional impressions. 

[silent thunder]

Much that is mind gets programmed and stored in the body it seems.

 

Working with the body seems and for me has been an effective means in bringing to awareness deep conditioning and deeply seeded mind blocks and storage when current conditions support release.

 

Though silence and stillness still assert before and after all movement work and are the foundation in my own process.

[Maddie]

11 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Buddhism cultivates the mind through any means available.  In some traditions,  that includes through the body. 

 

Would you mind sharing which Buddhist traditions work through the body? I have never heard of this. 

[Forestgreen]

Shaolin. Or, at least one of the traditions affiliated with it.

 

 

[Maddie]

31 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

Shaolin. Or, at least one of the traditions affiliated with it.

 

 

 

Oh you mean like Kung Fu stuff??

[Forestgreen]

Yes, same place, different methods. 

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Yes, same place, different methods. 

 

Which Shaolin Kung Fu methods cultivate the mind through the body if you don't mind me asking?

[surrogate corpse]

5 hours ago, Maddie said:

Would you mind sharing which Buddhist traditions work through the body? I have never heard of this. 

 

Rinzai Zen is generally known for being more "in the body" than other Zen schools. Also, Linji (= Rinzai)'s book is extremely fun.

 

But also, if you just read early Buddhist suttas there is plenty of talk about body cultivation alongside the mental.

Edited April 25 by surrogate corpse

[Apech]

5 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Would you mind sharing which Buddhist traditions work through the body? I have never heard of this. 

buddhatantra and naldjor ( yogic practices)

[Maddie]

28 minutes ago, surrogate corpse said:

But also, if you just read early Buddhist suttas there is plenty of talk about body cultivation alongside the mental.

 

Can you give me a reference please? I have read a lot of the Suttas and have never seen this. 

[surrogate corpse]

I suppose it depends what exactly you are looking for. There is plenty of low-level discussion of various abstinences and purifications that go along with and are preconditions for mental cultivation. (My reading has been haphazard so I don't know sutta names offhand, sorry.) If you're looking for more intense methods—which I take it you are—you won't find it. (Indeed, the suttas tend to be skeptical of what can be achieved with just bodily cultivation.)

[Forestgreen]

6 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Which Shaolin Kung Fu methods cultivate the mind through the body if you don't mind me asking?

All Shaolin is supposed to be chan-wu-yi, I only truly understand the tradition I am involved in though. The name of my practice will be of no help, as far as I can see no public teacher writes about this aspect, in a world where seminars are sold the buddhist aspects of the art have no market value. 

[Forestgreen]

5 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Can you give me a reference please? I have read a lot of the Suttas and have never seen this. 

I never found the suttas helpful in this regard. The abhidhamma texts are more relevant, but describes what you are trying to achieve rather than how to achieve it. There are "qigong " methods that, in an unsimplified form, access  sensory processing in a very efficient way. 

Unfortunately,  simplification is the rule. 

[oak]

On 25/04/2024 at 9:53 PM, Maddie said:

 

Which Shaolin Kung Fu methods cultivate the mind through the body if you don't mind me asking?

 

I find this one a fun informative documentary. Be patient because he'll only find what he's looking for in the second part of the documentary.

 

[blue eyed snake]

On 25-4-2024 at 6:14 PM, Maddie said:

 

Would you mind sharing which Buddhist traditions work through the body? I have never heard of this. 

\

 

I had kept this thread but admit I never read it ( or have forgotten about)

 

[EFreethought]

On 4/24/2024 at 8:48 PM, Maddie said:

My original interest at the beginning of my journey was Qigong which led to an interest in Taoism. Although I found Taoism confusing and I had a hard time getting explanations to my questions so I eventually turned to Buddhism. As most people know Buddhism emphasizes the mind. It cultivates the mind through the mind primarily. 

 If I understand correct there is an aspect of Taoism that accesses the mind through the body? Lately I find this concept interesting and would like to know more about this and how it works.

Cultivating the mind through the body sounds like what the style I am in does. I wrote about it here recently:

 

[oak]

@Maddie There was a post on your thread yesterday about a japanese method of mind/body cultivation with a link to a book. Do you have any idea who posted it?

[Maddie]

8 minutes ago, oak said:

@Maddie There was a post on your thread yesterday about a japanese method of mind/body cultivation with a link to a book. Do you have any idea who posted it?

I don't think I saw that 

[oak]

19 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I don't think I saw that 

Thanks anyway

[blue eyed snake]

17 minutes ago, oak said:

Thanks anyway

 

I saw a book translated by Cleary and kept the link elsewere,

 not sure but I think @Taoist Texts posted it.

 

https://archive.org/details/meditationandhealthtaoistteachingsthomascleary_202002/page/n5/mode/2up?view=theater

 

[oak]

41 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I saw a book translated by Cleary and kept the link elsewere,

 not sure but I think @Taoist Texts posted it.

 

https://archive.org/details/meditationandhealthtaoistteachingsthomascleary_202002/page/n5/mode/2up?view=theater

 

 

I remember checking that one as well yesterday but it's not what I'm looking for. Thanks for trying to help 🙏

[Salvijus]

I think it means doing the Jing chi shen. 

 

First you cultivate Jing, health. You make the body strong and healthy. Open the joints, stretch the body, make it more conductive, flexible etc. This leads to better flow of chi. Better flow of chi is faster purification and transformation of deep layers of the body. And all that leads to heightened awareness. And state of peace and all that shen stuff. 

 

Opposite is also true. Cultivating equanimity and awareness leads to clearing of blocks, clearing of blocks leads to better flow of chi. Better flow of chi leads to transformation and better health. 

 

I'm not an expert on daoiam tho. 

Edited Wednesday at 03:51 AM by Salvijus

[Master Logray]

On 4/25/2024 at 9:48 AM, Maddie said:

My original interest at the beginning of my journey was Qigong which led to an interest in Taoism. Although I found Taoism confusing and I had a hard time getting explanations to my questions so I eventually turned to Buddhism. As most people know Buddhism emphasizes the mind. It cultivates the mind through the mind primarily. 

 If I understand correct there is an aspect of Taoism that accesses the mind through the body? Lately I find this concept interesting and would like to know more about this and how it works.

 

 

Taoism cultivation is manifold.  The most common form is in fact accessing the mind through the body.  Qigong/Neigong are this type - external body movements.  Although the stress is for both mind and body to grow together, the earlier phases are more body centric as it is far easier, faster and wield immediate benefits, and importantly, easier to hold on to the interests of the students.   And in the contemporary context, working through the body is more neutral, just like Hatha Yoga, without the person engage too much in Taoist philosophical and religious teachings, which enable people in other beliefs to follow e.g. Christians and Muslims, instead of asking them to worship different deities.