More Unpopular Opinions

[NaturaNaturans]

17 minutes ago, S:C said:

always questions, never answers, sorry.

I think questions are more usefull than answers, young socrates. Answers can be wrong, questions can not.

 

I want, once and for all,
not to know many things.
Wisdom requires moderation in knowledge
as in other things.

Friedrich Nietzsche

Edited March 14 by NaturaNaturans

[S:C]

18 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

I want, once and for all,
not to know many things.
Wisdom requires moderation in knowledge
as in other things.

Friedrich Nietzsche

Too late, my friend. My desire for truth was propelled by love unrequited. I don’t think I was ready to look behind that veil. (But I didn’t pull it either.)

 

Edited March 14 by S:C

[Taomeow]

From the taoist perspective, the central channel can be found or placed anywhere where there's yin-yang interplay and transformation.  It's the "mysterious border" between yin and yang, and it's not anatomical nor material and not even "spiritual."  What it is is in a certain sense virtual -- a virtual field of potential manifestations.  If you look at the taijitu, it's that S-shaped demarcation line between yin and yang which both divides and unites them and sort of doesn't exist -- it's the interplay and co-creation of yin and yang that make it appear.  No such interplay takes place in wuji where there's no duality.  The reason there's no duality is that nothing happens there.  Once something happens -- anything at all -- bye wuji, bye nonduality, hello manifestations.   

 

So, the central channel can be this division-unification between, e.g., the left side of the body and the right side, the left brain and the right, but also the upper and the lower body, or the back and the front, or the outer and the inner, and so on.  Moreover, it can be the border between the body and the mind, between jing and qi, qi and shen, between life and death, between gods and mortals, and so on.  If you place your unwavering awareness on any of those division-unification borders, that's where your central channel will be.

 

  

 

  

Edited March 14 by Taomeow

[S:C]

1 minute ago, Taomeow said:

No such interplay takes place in wuji where there's no duality.

Do we ever go back ? 

[Taomeow]

1 minute ago, S:C said:

Do we ever go back ? 

 

All the time.

 

[S:C]

I hardly ever notice now. 
 

Edited March 14 by S:C

[liminal_luke]

48 minutes ago, S:C said:

Do we ever go back ? 

 

Here´s a potentially unpopular opinion.  It´s good to develop fluency in both directions -- from manifestation to wuji, and from wuji to manifestion.

[Mark Foote]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Here´s a potentially unpopular opinion.  It´s good to develop fluency in both directions -- from manifestation to wuji, and from wuji to manifestion.
 

 

It's good to be able to relinquish activity and the identification of self with an actor.  Sometimes that might involve reflection on impermanence, and some detachment from the pleasant and unpleasant--maybe even from the neutral of sensation.

 

(One) makes up one’s mind:

 

Contemplating impermanence I shall breathe in. Contemplating impermanence I shall breathe out.

 

Contemplating dispassion I shall breathe in. Contemplating dispassion I shall breathe out.

 

Contemplating cessation I shall breathe in. Contemplating cessation I shall breathe out.

 

Contemplating renunciation I shall breathe in. Contemplating renunciation I shall breathe out.

 

 

(SN V 312, Pali Text Society Vol V p 275-276; tr. F. L. Woodward; masculine pronouns replaced, re-paragraphed)

 

 

I know, I know--get outta here!

 

[liminal_luke]

28 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

I know, I know--get outta here!

 

 

Not at all -- stay! .  

Edited March 15 by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, S:C said:

Too late, my friend. My desire for truth was propelled by love unrequited.

 

 

ya gotta watch that ...

 

Love unrequited, robs me of me rest,
Love, hopeless love, my ardent soul encumbers,
Love, nightmare like, lies heavy on me chest,
And weaves itself into my midnight slumbers.

When you're lying awake with a dismal headache and
Repose is taboo'd by anxiety,
I conceive you may use any language you choose to
Indulge in, without impropriety;
For your brain is on fire, the bed-clothes conspire of
Usual slumber to plunder you:
First your counter-pane goes, and uncovers your toes,
And your sheet slips demurely from under you;
Then the blanketing tickles, you feel like mixed
Pickles, so terribly sharp is the pricking,
And you're hot and you're cross, and you tumble and
Toss 'til there's nothing 'twixt you and the
Ticking.
Then the bed-clothes all creep to the ground in a heap
And you pick 'em all up in a tangle;
Next your pillow resigns and politely declines to
Remain at it's usual angle!
Well, you get some repose in the form of a dose, with
Hot eye-balls and head ever aching,
But your slumbering teems with such horrible dreams
That you'd very much better be waking;

Well .....

You're a regular wreck, with a crick in your neck, and
No wonder you snore, for your head's on the floor
And you've needles and pins from your soles to your
Shins, and your flesh is acreep, for your left leg's
Asleep,
And you've cramp in your toes, and a fly on your nose,
And some fluff in your lung, and a feverish tongue,
And a thirst that's intense,
And a general sense that you haven't been sleeping in
Clover;
But the darkness has pass'd, and it's daylight at
Last, and the night has been long, ditto, ditto my
Song,

And thank goodness they're both of them over!

[Bindi]

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Subtle body work and nondual traditions need not be at odds. The central channel is the anatomical seat of nondual consciousness in the human body, imo.

 

Maybe the central channel is the anatomical seat of nondual consciousness, or maybe it’s a a particular section of the central channel like the crown, or below the crown, or above the crown, or maybe it’s not related to the central channel at all, but until that potential is realised it’s really just guesswork. You might be right, but that would just be by chance, until you know. 

 

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

  Bringing our awareness to the center, we become centered.

 

If some mental conditioning is being played out, or some emotional upheaval, I can imagine shifting awareness to some perceived centre might feel like a relief, but the conditioning and the emotional storms will continue to arise unless they’re attended to directly, which is not the work of the central channel. 

 

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Resting our awareness in the center continually, we enlighten. 
 

 

Resting awareness in the centre continually, we bypass emotional and mental issues, but they and the ego which defends against them  don’t just disappear of their own accord. 

 

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

After enlightenment, there is no need to direct attention anywhere because everywhere is experienced as the center. 

This is your opinion garnered from literature or discussion, not your experience, so like your first assumption you may be entirely correct or you may have missed the mark entirely. 

[S:C]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

Love unrequited, robs me of me rest,

Nah, that’s the nice madness, you should happily enjoy if you can. (In fact I didn’t read your full poem, so I don’t know if my statement is sincere here.)
 

The general human madness is on different level. It has no hope.

 

And there is a difference between heart love and erotical love indeed (having read your poem now) although at times it might coincide. 

Edited March 15 by S:C

[Bindi]

11 hours ago, Forestgreen said:

Here is my unpopular opinion:

Kundalini is defined differently in different traditions, which causes confusion when the subject cones up.

Some of the Yoga upanishads seems to have similar descriptions, which differs from the more usually available versions. 

Source: The Yoga darshana upanishad and the Yoga kundalini upanishad.

 

Yes, let’s say the subject is not fully comprehended by all the different traditions, and there is a great amount of confusion because each tradition likes to believe it has the full truth. The best we can do is explore the system ourselves, though this can easily backfire if the mundane mind is running the show. Best IMO would be to be led by ‘Shiva’ from the start, that’s the only guaranteed way to not go wrong. 

[Bindi]

10 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

Btw, as far as I know to Saivites Shiva (or Siva) is Supreme Being or Brahman,   with  Brahman being beyond all categories which then comes into manifestation as first Shakti of the purest energy and the dance of that energy represented by Lord Nataraja, along with or through Lords Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.   Btw Saivites have several major schools or sects and they don't agree on everything although they do agree on a great many of things.  I think most any discussion about Shiva should include such credit to & some basic  info about Saivites... which one could then do their own verification and research on. 

 

Im using the broad concepts of Shiva and Shakti because they’re useful, but I’m not using the associated assumptions from any particular school or sect. 

[Bindi]

7 hours ago, S:C said:

 

don’t we need both to live functionally? 
 

 

I think we can clearly function without ‘higher’ consciousness being operational, but in that case I don’t think we’re functioning at our full potential. 

 

7 hours ago, S:C said:

 

designed means there is a creator with intention? 
 

 

I mean the ‘hardware’ exists, kundalini is there, but sleeping, the central channel exists but is unused, Shiva exists but remains unheard most of the time. Why that system exists waiting to be activated I have no idea, but I’d bet the house on it that it does exist. 

 

7 hours ago, S:C said:

 

why does it work and why works it in the central channel, what is the difference to the mundane? 

 

potential is bound to decrease at some point… does it rise ever again?

 

I don’t really understand your questions here, except to say that higher consciousness is logically not equivalent to mundane consciousness, and if higher consciousness is activated properly, I don’t see that it would be bound to decrease. 

 

7 hours ago, S:C said:

always questions, never answers, sorry.

 

[Bindi]

6 hours ago, Taomeow said:

From the taoist perspective, the central channel can be found or placed anywhere where there's yin-yang interplay and transformation.  It's the "mysterious border" between yin and yang, and it's not anatomical nor material and not even "spiritual."  What it is is in a certain sense virtual -- a virtual field of potential manifestations.  If you look at the taijitu, it's that S-shaped demarcation line between yin and yang which both divides and unites them and sort of doesn't exist -- it's the interplay and co-creation of yin and yang that make it appear.  No such interplay takes place in wuji where there's no duality.  The reason there's no duality is that nothing happens there.  Once something happens -- anything at all -- bye wuji, bye nonduality, hello manifestations.   

 

So, the central channel can be this division-unification between, e.g., the left side of the body and the right side, the left brain and the right, but also the upper and the lower body, or the back and the front, or the outer and the inner, and so on.  Moreover, it can be the border between the body and the mind, between jing and qi, qi and shen, between life and death, between gods and mortals, and so on.  If you place your unwavering awareness on any of those division-unification borders, that's where your central channel will be.

  

When referring to Shiva/Shakti consciousness specifically, the central channel as their optimal ground of being does have a very specific location, and is only identified as the subtle energy body. When referring to nonduality the playing field is wide open. 

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, S:C said:

Nah, that’s the nice madness, you should happily enjoy if you can. (In fact I didn’t read your full poem, so I don’t know if my statement is sincere here.)
 

The general human madness is on different level. It has no hope.

 

And there is a difference between heart love and erotical love indeed (having read your poem now) although at times it might coincide. 

 

 

 

' Eros' and 'agape'  , best not to confuse those  -  " There is the dove and there is the serpent - choose ye well . "

 

[old3bob]

4 hours ago, Bindi said:

Im using the broad concepts of Shiva and Shakti because they’re useful, but I’m not using the associated assumptions from any particular school or sect. 

 

Borrowing broad concepts which originally and largely come from Hinduism's schools is one thing...but as far as assumptions (sounding like a dismissal?) per assumptions, well I'd caution about making them,  being that certain schools and lineages  have been practicing and developing associated yoga's for thousands of years which have fostered true and rare Kundalini masters and knowers of the Self which is beyond any form including the subtle body.  (and I'm not guessing on that) 

Edited March 15 by old3bob

[old3bob]

11 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

I think questions are more usefull than answers, young socrates. Answers can be wrong, questions can not.

 

I want, once and for all,
not to know many things.
Wisdom requires moderation in knowledge
as in other things.

Friedrich Nietzsche

 

the greater the knowledge the greater the responsibility not to error in relation to it... thus not an easy row to hoe but possible.

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, old3bob said:

 

Borrowing broad concepts which originally and largely come from Hinduism's schools is one thing...but as far as assumptions (sounding like a dismissal?) per assumptions, well I'd caution about making them,  being that certain schools and lineages  have been practicing and developing associated yoga's for thousands of years which have fostered true and rare Kundalini masters and knowers of the Self which is beyond any form including the subtle body.  (and I'm not guessing on that) 

I find much of the general information about kundalini and the three main nadi’s to be worthwhile, but as you yourself said, they don’t agree on everything, and I’m certainly not going to believe one teaching over another until I have a very good reason to side with any particular opinion. In the meantime, post as much as you please from Saivite schools and sects, I’m not going to, after all, this thread is titled unpopular opinions, not popular scripture isn’t it? 

 

Edited March 15 by Bindi

[NaturaNaturans]

[Apech]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

ya gotta watch that ...

 

Love unrequited, robs me of me rest,
Love, hopeless love, my ardent soul encumbers,
Love, nightmare like, lies heavy on me chest,
And weaves itself into my midnight slumbers.

When you're lying awake with a dismal headache and
Repose is taboo'd by anxiety,
I conceive you may use any language you choose to
Indulge in, without impropriety;
For your brain is on fire, the bed-clothes conspire of
Usual slumber to plunder you:
First your counter-pane goes, and uncovers your toes,
And your sheet slips demurely from under you;
Then the blanketing tickles, you feel like mixed
Pickles, so terribly sharp is the pricking,
And you're hot and you're cross, and you tumble and
Toss 'til there's nothing 'twixt you and the
Ticking.
Then the bed-clothes all creep to the ground in a heap
And you pick 'em all up in a tangle;
Next your pillow resigns and politely declines to
Remain at it's usual angle!
Well, you get some repose in the form of a dose, with
Hot eye-balls and head ever aching,
But your slumbering teems with such horrible dreams
That you'd very much better be waking;

Well .....

You're a regular wreck, with a crick in your neck, and
No wonder you snore, for your head's on the floor
And you've needles and pins from your soles to your
Shins, and your flesh is acreep, for your left leg's
Asleep,
And you've cramp in your toes, and a fly on your nose,
And some fluff in your lung, and a feverish tongue,
And a thirst that's intense,
And a general sense that you haven't been sleeping in
Clover;
But the darkness has pass'd, and it's daylight at
Last, and the night has been long, ditto, ditto my
Song,

And thank goodness they're both of them over!

 

That must be a first - a Gilbert and Sullivan quote on DBs.!

 

[Apech]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

' Eros' and 'agape'  , best not to confuse those  -  " There is the dove and there is the serpent - choose ye well . "

 

 

Be as gentle as doves and cunning as serpents.

[liminal_luke]

9 hours ago, Bindi said:

This is your opinion garnered from literature or discussion, not your experience, so like your first assumption you may be entirely correct or you may have missed the mark entirely. 

 

You seem to think that my post about the central channel amounts to nothing more than parroting the views of others and that I have no direct experience of what I speak.  I suspect that the larger Bum community won´t have much to say about your opinion one way or the other, but, speaking personally, I find it deeply unpopular.

Edited March 15 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

11 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

You seem to think that my post about the central channel amounts to nothing more than parroting the views of others and that I have no direct experience of what I speak.  I suspect that the larger Bum community won´t have much to say about your opinion one way or the other, but, speaking personally, I find it deeply unpopular.

 

But not as unpopular as teen genocide!