Jesus in India ( Himalayas)

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, NaturaNaturans said:

By that i meant: living in one of the most hellish places on earth at the time, speaking against the authorities and preaching love and forgiveness, something he knew would Get him killed. Willing to die for his belief instead of sacrifice then, is that makes it clearer.

 

That's probably not how and why it actually happened historically. I think the disciples did a lot of retcon. 

[Apech]

2 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

This was being taught before Jesus. 

 

Can you give a specific example of something that Jesus taught that was new, revolutionary AND changed the world?

His death and resurrection.

[Maddie]

7 minutes ago, Apech said:

His death and resurrection.

 

alleged resurrection lol

[NaturaNaturans]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

alleged resurrection lol

Rising from the death = enlightentment = immortality = rebirth = change = divinity. 
 

symbolism.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Rising from the death = enlightentment = immortality = rebirth = change = divinity. 
 

symbolism.

 

Actually rising from the dead is antithetical to enlightenment, at least according to the Buddhist definition. The Buddha said after an enlightened being dies there is no re-birth, no coming back. 

 

Also there is absolutely no proof that Jesus actually resurrected. 

[NaturaNaturans]

11 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Actually rising from the dead is antithetical to enlightenment, at least according to the Buddhist definition. The Buddha said after an enlightened being dies there is no re-birth, no coming back. 

 

Also there is absolutely no proof that Jesus actually resurrected. 

Yes but this is not the buddhist definition. In the western world, rebirth is awakening (or enlightenment), and immortality is divinity. 

[Maddie]

Just now, NaturaNaturans said:

Yes but this is not the buddhist definition. In the western world, rebirth is awakening (or enlightenment), and immortality is divinity. 

 

That's why I specified who's definition lol. The term "enlightenment" is rather ambiguous. But still there is no proof this happened.  

[snowymountains]

Well there's this whole discussion of whether Jesus claimed resurrection was something like the rainbow body which some Dzogchen masters in Tibet have been claimed to have achieved.

Jesus post-resurrection body, to the best of my understanding at least, was claimed to be a body of light, hence his words to Magdalene that she can't touch him.

 

There is no proof of neither Jesus' resurrection nor dzogchen rainbow bodies.

 

There's a catholic priest, father Tiso who did go to Tibet to study the claimed rainbow bodies and potential links to Christ's resurrection. He has written a book and has some talks on youtube.

There are also other stories from many religions that are similar, equally unproven.

 

It's interesting to note that the historical Buddha did not do a rainbow body at his death, so assuming it exists (personally, I am not convinced), I do not see why a Buddhist should aim to pass in that way.

[NaturaNaturans]

11 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

That's why I specified who's definition lol. The term "enlightenment" is rather ambiguous. But still there is no proof this happened.  

It didnt happen

[snowymountains]

There's this quote by C.G. Jung which I like a lot: “One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.”

 

In Jung's view enlightenment is all about bring our bring our subconscious, unconscious and collective subconscious to our conscious.

In my view at least, this is the core of what Buddhist meditations are about, to not identify with your body, to be able to slow down the mind, observe the thoughts without attaching to them etc.

 

In my view Jung has spot on, it's not about rainbow bodies nor metaphysics, which more likely than not do not exist. It's about becoming aware of all our parts and also not having conflicts between our parts.

 

As a ps - Equally interesting, Jung wrote a whole book on Gnosticism which he saw during his active imagination meditations. In a religious context this likely would had been interpreted as divination but Jung came with his own interpretations related to the collective subconscious, what he termed the phychoid etc.

[Maddie]

14 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

Well there's this whole discussion of whether Jesus claimed resurrection was something like the rainbow body which some Dzogchen masters in Tibet have been claimed to have achieved.

Jesus post-resurrection body, to the best of my understanding at least, was claimed to be a body of light, hence his words to Magdalene that she can't touch him.

 

Except he told doubting Thomas to touch him. 

[snowymountains]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

 

Except he told doubting Thomas to touch him. 

Details  🤣

[Apech]

3 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

alleged resurrection lol

 

alleged or real it changed the world ... which was your question.

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

alleged or real it changed the world ... which was your question.

 

Touche 😉

[Maddie]

5 hours ago, Apech said:

 

alleged or real it changed the world ... which was your question.

 

Technically though my question is what did he teach that was so profound that merits him being the most amazing teacher ever?

[old3bob]

12 hours ago, Maddie said:

Here's a question that I don't think has been asked yet. What exactly did Jesus teach that was so novel or significant? I don't really see anything amazing in the gospels and somethings quite disturbing to be honest. 

 

try reading about the woman at the well who met Jesus there...that is the real deal and not limited to just that person or time and place or just one great master but is the potential for all of us to know...the pure living water springing up from within... 

Edited January 7 by old3bob

[Chang dao ling]

10 hours ago, snowymountains said:

There is no proof of neither Jesus' resurrection nor dzogchen rainbow bodies.

There is proof for Dzogchen rainbow bodies.

https://youtu.be/uQ-2_pBa5dc?si=m-v8QsOYclBAOtzk

[oak]

If Jesus lived in India or if the Buddha lived in Israel doesn't matter, never did and never will...

Why the obsession of framing historically these...are there words to describe what they are or are not? Jesus is definately not the son of Mary as well as the Buddha is definately not Siddharta Gautama.

IMHO the juice is in the story never in history.

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, oak said:

If Jesus lived in India or if the Buddha lived in Israel doesn't matter, never did and never will...

Why the obsession of framing historically these...are there words to describe what they are or are not? Jesus is definately not the son of Mary as well as the Buddha is definately not Siddharta Gautama.

IMHO the juice is in the story never in history.

 

What do you base these claims on? Sources?

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

try reading about the woman at the well who met Jesus there...that is the real deal and not limited to just that person or time and place or just one great master but is the potential for all of us to know...the pure living water springing up from within... 

 

I'm familiar with the story but I don't see the significance?

[oak]

35 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

What do you base these claims on? Sources?

 

I would say my experience of having studied the  bible for many years as well as other mythology. Anyway, the version of the bible that was my favourite was a catholic one. I remember the commentaries that served as a preface to the NT.  There it was written that the 4 gospels aren't to be taken as a biography of Jesus. The point is that not even catholic authorities interpret the text that way.

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, oak said:

 

I would say my experience of having studied the  bible for many years as well as other mythology. Anyway, the version of the bible that was my favourite was a catholic one. I remember the commentaries that served as a preface to the NT.  There it was written that the 4 gospels aren't to be taken as a biography of Jesus. The point is that not even catholic authorities interpret the text that way.

 

Just to make sure I understand your claim correctly, it sounds like you're saying that Jesus never existed? I don't think one can read the Bible and draw that conclusion.

[oak]

Nope, what I'm saying is that the historical Jesus, just like the historical whale that swalloded Jonah don't matter.

[Salvijus]

23 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

This was being taught before Jesus. 

 

Can you give a specific example of something that Jesus taught that was new, revolutionary AND changed the world?

 

He demonstrated that even during the worst of cruelty and injustice, your love can be beyond animosity, hatred, resentment.

 

And that there is no death and nothing to fear, no power in the universe can hurt you. Because your nature is love and love is forever free. And he was a living example/demonstration of that truth.

 

And his ministry on this planet created huge waves of revolution. He planted new seeds in the matrix of human consciousness that there is a better way to live life and inspired thousands of generations to follow in his footsteps and seek for something higher.

 

Also he's a bodisatva, meaning his grace is still available even today to those who are willing to receive it and he is still continuesly helping people to heal and awaken. 

Edited January 7 by Salvijus

[old3bob]

26 minutes ago, oak said:

Nope, what I'm saying is that the historical Jesus, just like the historical whale that swalloded Jonah don't matter.

 

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater does matter...thus throwing out possible pointers to that which is beyond pointers is no better...

 

if you mean the essence of something is more important than it's outer  appearance's I get that context.

Edited January 7 by old3bob