Jesus in India ( Himalayas)

[Chang dao ling]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

Who nose?

My nose 

[old3bob]

Jimmy's nose:

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

On 7-1-2024 at 4:08 AM, Maddie said:

 

Technically though my question is what did he teach that was so profound that merits him being the most amazing teacher ever?

 

I think he brought the concept of forgiveness in the world, i don't know about "the most amazing teacher ever" but forgiveness is quite a thing. To me that sets him apart.

[old3bob]

 

And I think there is even a more radical one, namely, "love thine enemy" !!  Which was unheard of for that age and for most all the ages and historical cultures of mankind.  (maybe someone knows of some exceptions?)

 

Edited January 9 by old3bob

[blue eyed snake]

On 7-1-2024 at 5:32 PM, Maddie said:

Jesus' teachings did nothing to end slavery, improve women's and human rights. All of these things were secular ideas. So my point is if his teachings were really so great, why have all the advances in human rights not come from Jesus' teachings? 

 

these advances did however originate in "Christian lands"

 

not so much in chinese, hindu or moslim territory

 

(my wording may not be the best, I have problems with language)

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

these advances did however originate in "Christian lands"

 

not so much in chinese, hindu or moslim territory

 

(my wording may not be the best, I have problems with language)

 

Ok forgiveness and love are pretty noteworthy, yes I'll agree.

 

So, yes these advances did originate in countries there were predominately Christian, but in spite of the fact that there were Christian, not because of it. The advances originated from secular sources predominately. The "enlightenment" of the 17th century in Europe had a lot to do with it, and that was a secular movement. 

[old3bob]

For Nungali:

 

[blue eyed snake]

On 8-1-2024 at 6:39 AM, Nungali said:

 

Eh ?   Did I infer It was 'odd' ?    It  did 'work' , I was saying , for her  . .....  for a while .

 

 

 

Well, for a while , when she was doing 'the steps' ,  ( at least that seemed some type of 'acknowledgement'  she did come to me and apologise for being such a bitch and acknowledging how  good and patient  I had been with her  .   That surprised me . 

 

 

But turns out she later dumped Jesus later . .. .  maybe he wasnt 'convenient' for her any more ? 

 

I think she is some type of pagan conspiracy theorist now .

 

  Hide contents

The best part of that story though is her son .  I had positive input there when he was 2 - 4  ,  he was often in a bad situation ; domestic and (psychological ) abuse . My philosophy is if I can give them good energy and protection and development help, and no one fucks them up by 3 , they have a much better chance , and a much better chance to deal with it if it arises later .

 

It worked a charm with him . When a greater danger threatened  at about age 6 , he responded  as I had tried to subtly  coach him , thus  disempowering  and not allowing a  a potential abuser .  Now ?  he is a strapping young handsome man ,  got a good career opportunity and doing good in that , got a beaut GF and just recently , his own baby ... he is absolutely over the Moon  and in love with him. Thinks its the best thing that ever happened to him .

 

Yay ! 

 

 

thank you Nungali, that's a sound philosophy and every kid you gave a sporting chance on life that way is a badge of honor.

 

deeply grateful  

[blue eyed snake]

33 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Ok forgiveness and love are pretty noteworthy, yes I'll agree.

 

So, yes these advances did originate in countries there were predominately Christian, but in spite of the fact that there were Christian, not because of it. The advances originated from secular sources predominately. The "enlightenment" of the 17th century in Europe had a lot to do with it, and that was a secular movement. 

 

oh yes, it was a secular movement, but somehow those christian lands were the right soil to let those seeds sprout.

 

 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

oh yes, it was a secular movement, but somehow those christian lands were the right soil to let those seeds sprout.

 

 

 

As a history major I will tell you my opinion as to why I think this is. The thirty years war. It was an awful war that ravaged Europe in the sixteen hundreds. It's estimated that millions of soldiers and civilians alike died as either a direct cause of the war or due to effects of the war. The thirty years war was a Christian religious war between Catholics and Protestants. The war forever changed Europe's attitudes towards religion and government. It led to the enlightenment and to the ideas of separation of church and state which greatly influenced the framers of the constitution of the United States. 

    It was under this enlightenment thinking that produced the freedom and space for secular thought and the challenging of religious beliefs that led to other institutions that Christianity had long endorsed such as slavery being challenged as well. 

    So yes this movement did take place in countries that were predominately Christian but as a result of the reaction to the horror the Christian wars of religion and not because of Christianity itself, but rather in spite of it. 

[old3bob]

 

Spirit will try and can work (in spite of so to speak) across times, places, forms and peoples...that is its nature, not unlike the nature of water as described in the T.T.C. 

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

5 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

As a history major I will tell you my opinion as to why I think this is. The thirty years war. It was an awful war that ravaged Europe in the sixteen hundreds. It's estimated that millions of soldiers and civilians alike died as either a direct cause of the war or due to effects of the war. The thirty years war was a Christian religious war between Catholics and Protestants. The war forever changed Europe's attitudes towards religion and government. It led to the enlightenment and to the ideas of separation of church and state which greatly influenced the framers of the constitution of the United States. 

    It was under this enlightenment thinking that produced the freedom and space for secular thought and the challenging of religious beliefs that led to other institutions that Christianity had long endorsed such as slavery being challenged as well. 

    So yes this movement did take place in countries that were predominately Christian but as a result of the reaction to the horror the Christian wars of religion and not because of Christianity itself, but rather in spite of it. 

 

that's interesting, never given it much thought to be honest.

 

oh and this is a fun read, i read about this as a kid, this actually was the first time  i read something that was totally different from the accepted point of view

 

https://www.indiadivine.org/jesus-christ-was-the-savior-buried-in-kashmir-india/

[Maddie]

4 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

that's interesting, never given it much thought to be honest.

 

oh and this is a fun read, i read about this as a kid, this actually was the first time  i read something that was totally different from the accepted point of view

 

https://www.indiadivine.org/jesus-christ-was-the-savior-buried-in-kashmir-india/

 

I majored in history for my undergrad, yes I'm a nerd lol. It's always why I drive people crazy here asking for sources. Our professors would throw our papers back at us if we just made claims without siting sources. 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

these advances did however originate in "Christian lands"

 

not so much in chinese, hindu or moslim territory

 

(my wording may not be the best, I have problems with language)

 

But did they originate in Christian  lands ?   And why do people think  they did ?

 

'Popular'  History seems to have swept the originators under the carpet .

 

Human rights /  more  egalitarian forms of government  ..... better sexual equality ..... animal  rights encoded in legislation ..... protection of the environment (again within legislation ) .... and perhaps even the whole ethical foundation o/f western civilization

 

? 

 

Generally :

https://infinitediscoveries.org/zoroastrianism-an-ancient-persian-faith-and-the-foundations-of-western-civilization/

 

Sexual equality :

" Women in ancient Persia had more rights and greater freedom than any other ancient civilization including, according to some scholars, even ancient Egypt which is famous for its respect for the feminine principle in religion as well as daily life "

 

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1493/twelve-great-women-of-ancient-persia/

 

Animals :

"Religion is often criticized for failing to uphold animal concerns, yet Zoroastrianism, an ancient religion that underlies the Abrahamic traditions as well as Eastern religions, offers some strikingly contemporary concerns regarding the kinship of human and nonhuman animals. Human and nonhuman animals alike have souls, free will, and life after death. In the middle of the second millennium BCE, Zoroaster called attention to the treatment of animals as necessary to the divine order and righteousness that has been disturbed by evil and sin. How humans treat animals also affects their own well-being in this world and the next."

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358395192_Zoroaster_and_the_Animals

 

Environment ;

General  - contemporary ;

 

https://parsi-times.com/2021/11/our-environment-a-zoroastrian-perspective/

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Ok forgiveness and love are pretty noteworthy, yes I'll agree.

 

So, yes these advances did originate in countries there were predominately Christian, but in spite of the fact that there were Christian, not because of it. The advances originated from secular sources predominately. The "enlightenment" of the 17th century in Europe had a lot to do with it, and that was a secular movement. 

 

Lets go backwards ;  'enlightenment'  <  influence of Islamic 'Golden Age ' <  influence from Haran , Syria  'Hermetics ' ( early 'science' which developed into the modern science that  contributed to the Enlightenment  - 'scientific revolution' )   - which includes Platonism <  migration from Alexandria  ( ' Great Library ' , The Alexandrian Synthesis , etc )  <  input from various sources including Zoroastrianism .

 

lets not forget that civilization = or ends up as industrialization on some levels ... not a friend of the environment  at all . However many 'un civilized '   cultures   have ecological awareness including both from a spiritual and material nature based necessity .

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

For Nungali:

 

 

Maybe you could explain this , and why and where you are coming from .  I dont get it . 

 

But anyway ...

 

Did you know that the  WOMAN  who first invented 'monopoly'  ( although under a different name - they stole it, of course  and changed it )  supplied a variant set of rules so a totally different game could be played  ?  - no  private ownership of property , all rent went into a collective fund  to pay for services  and other egalitarian rules where in place . Not sure how one played it though .

[NaturaNaturans]

4 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Maybe you could explain this , and why and where you are coming from .  I dont get it . 

 

But anyway ...

 

Did you know that the  WOMAN  who first invented 'monopoly'  ( although under a different name - they stole it, of course  and changed it )  supplied a variant set of rules so a totally different game could be played  ?  - no  private ownership of property , all rent went into a collective fund  to pay for services  and other egalitarian rules where in place . Not sure how one played it though .

She was a socialist as well, witch is just beautyfull. I think part of the point was to show how rigged it could be, and she did pretty well.

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

oh yes, it was a secular movement, but somehow those christian lands were the right soil to let those seeds sprout.

 

 

 

I'm sorry , they weren't .  When Christians first swarmed back into 'their Holy Lands' the first ones across the divide  (into Asia )  raced down and immediately started slaughtering the 'enemy' ... except they forgot to check .... they where Christians that happened to live there .   Then they caught some other guys , sliced off their buttocks and BBQed bottom steaks .

 

It was a cruel and nasty torturing world back then .... virtually from the beginning .... 'Christian Lands' had been the Roman Empire .

 

It was not until later , as Maddie pointed out , where influences of the Enlightenment  started to bring  'Christian Lands' out of their ignorant barbarism . 

 

Sorry western civ Christians ....  bit thats history .

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

I majored in history for my undergrad, yes I'm a nerd lol. It's always why I drive people crazy here asking for sources. Our professors would throw our papers back at us if we just made claims without siting sources. 

 

Unfortunately , being separated by a vast ocean , I cannot enter peoples abodes and throw their laptops or phones at them 

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

For Nungali:

 

 

What, pay was mentioned?  Take this as symbolic.

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

What, pay was mentioned?  Take this as symbolic.

 

I dont know .   What pay was mentioned ?

 

A symbol of what ? 

 

[Nungali]

 

Jesus Christ was a Tamil Hindu, claims RSS founder's book.

Christ Parichay, the book that claims Jesus Christ was born a Tamil Hindu,

 

1. Ganesh Damodar claims that Christianity is a sect of Hinduism.
2. The present day Palestinian and Arab territories were a Hindu land.
3. He went on to say that Christ traveled to India and learnt yoga. Who knows Modi might have also learnt it from 'our very own' Christ, right?
4. Christ's real name was Keshao Krishna, according to the author. He even had a dark complexion and his mother tongue was Tamil.
5. Christ's sacred thread ceremony (janeyu) was held when he was 12, according to Brahmin tradition. He even wore a sacred thread.
6. Apparently, Christianity was never a separate religion and it was a Hindu cult and doctrine introduced by Christ.
7. Christ was saved after his crucifixion by people from the Essene's cult, who practiced Yoga and spiritual science.
8. He was given medicinal herbs and plants for his recovery from the 'deathbed'. Christ also was taken to Kashmir.
9. It was in Kashmir that Christ prayed to Lord Shiva and he spent the last days of his life in the Himalayas.
10. Damodar claims that Christ's family dressed in an 'Indian' way and had Hindu signs on their bodies.
11.  
12. https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/jesus-christ-tamil-hindu-rss-310087-2016-02-23

 

[Nungali]

Every 'great ' idea has its  'Ignatius Donnelly '  behind it , meet ....

 

Nicolas Notovich, 1887

 

 

In 1887, Russian war correspondent Nicolas Notovitch claimed that while at the Hemis Monastery in Ladakh, he had learned of a document called the "Life of Saint Issa, Best of the Sons of Men" – Isa being the Arabic name of Jesus in Islam.^[29][30][31] Notovitch's story, with a translated text of the "Life of Saint Issa", was published in French in 1894 as La vie inconnue de Jesus Christ (Unknown Life of Jesus Christ).^[5][31]

 

According to the scrolls, Jesus abandoned Jerusalem at the age of 13 and set out towards Sindh, “intending to improve and perfect himself in the divine understanding and to studying the laws of the great Buddha”. He crossed Punjab and reached Puri Jagannath where he studied the Vedas under Brahmin priests. He spent six years in Puri and Rajgirh, near Nalanda, the ancient seat of Hindu learning. Then he went to the Himalayas, and spent time in Tibetan monasteries, studying Buddhism,^[29] and through Persia, returned to Jerusalem at the age of 29.

 

Notovitch's writings were immediately controversial and Max Müller stated that either the monks at the monastery had deceived Notovitch (or played a joke on him), or he had fabricated the evidence.^[29][32][33] Müller then wrote to the monastery at Hemis and the head lama replied that there had been no Western visitor at the monastery in the past fifteen years and there were no documents related to Notovitch's story.^[34]J. Archibald Douglas then visited Hemis monastery and interviewed the head lama who stated that Notovitch had never been there.^[34] Indologist Leopold von Schroeder called Notovitch's story a "big fat lie".^[35]Wilhelm Schneemelcher states that Notovich's accounts were soon exposed as fabrications, and that to date no one has even had a glimpse at the manuscripts Notovitch claims to have had.^[5]

 

Notovich responded to claims to defend himself.^[36] But once his story had been re-examined by historians – some even questioning his existence – it is claimed that Notovitch confessed to having fabricated the evidence.^[35]Bart D. Ehrman states that "Today there is not a single recognized scholar on the planet who has any doubts about the matter. The entire story was invented by Notovitch, who earned a good deal of money and a substantial amount of notoriety for his hoax".^[37] However, others deny that Notovich ever accepted the accusations against him – that his account was a forgery, etc. Although he was not impressed with his story, Sir Francis Younghusband recalls meeting Nicolas Notovitch near Skardu, not long before Notovitch had visited Hemis monastery.^[38]

 

In 1922, Swami Abhedananda, the president of the Vedanta Society of New York between 1897 and 1921 and the author of several books, went to the Himalayas on foot and reached Tibet, where he studied Buddhist philosophy and Tibetan Buddhism. He went to the Hemis Monastery, and allegedly found the manuscript translated by Notovitch, which was a Tibetan translation of the original scrolls written in Pali. The lama said that it was a copy and that the original was in a monastery at Marbour near Lhasa. After Abhedananda's death in 1939, one of his disciples inquired about the documents at the Hemis monastery, but was told that they had disappeared."

[Chang dao ling]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

According to the scrolls, Jesus abandoned Jerusalem at the age of 13 and set out towards Sindh, “intending to improve and perfect himself in the divine understanding and to studying the laws of the great Buddha”. He crossed Punjab and reached Puri Jagannath where he studied the Vedas under Brahmin priests. He spent six years in Puri and Rajgirh, near Nalanda, the ancient seat of Hindu learning. Then he went to the Himalayas, and spent time in Tibetan monasteries, studying Buddhism,^[29] and through Persia, returned to Jerusalem at the age of 29.

I believe this. Because in Auto biography of Yogi. Yogananda mentioned Jesus has very close connection with Maha avatar Baba ( he is physical immortal)

[old3bob]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I dont know .   What pay was mentioned ?

 

A symbol of what ? 

 

 

did you not say several times in this string that you were not getting paid?  thus that's a symbol of payment and meant in good humor...