Feeling and mental perception

[liminal_luke]

8 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

No you misunderstand. I'm tired of debating you so I'm going to stop. My suffering has ended. 😇

 

Congratulations, Maddie!  There´s a technical Buddhist term for the spiritual level characterized by refusal to debate on the internet -- stream entry.

[Cobie]

.

Edited February 13 by Cobie

[Daniel]

12 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

No you misunderstand. I'm tired of debating you so I'm going to stop. My suffering has ended. 😇

 

You asked a question, I answered it.  Did you read it or not?

[Daniel]

16 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

No you misunderstand. I'm tired of debating you so I'm going to stop. My suffering has ended. 😇

 

"I'm tired of debating you"

 

Ah.  So you were the one agitated not me.  It doesn't need to be a debate, it could be a discussion.  If one individual in a discussion repeatedly dodges questions and avoids answering by posting big irrelevant diagrams, or making out of context remarks, it might become a debate if the other party pushes them for answers. 

[Cobie]

[Cobie]

 

11 hours ago, Nungali said:

… it was a joke . 

 

I don’t like personal attack jokes, my DL post was a reaction to that. 

 

Quote

… Dalai lama links to CIA …

 

DL used to be so popular, I too used to like him. Then lots of negative info started coming out. Idk. I feel manipulated by changes in the media reflecting changes in who’s in power in world politics. I deleted my post. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Cobie

[Mark Foote]

9 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Never jump in a dark cave - you could hit your head.
 

Who could imagine, three-year retreats in beautiful Nova Scotia:

https://gampoabbey.org/sopa-choling-three-year-retreat-center/

 

Or sunny New Mexico!

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/sex-and-death-on-the-road-to-nirvana-86995/

 

[Mark Foote]

8 hours ago, Daniel said:

And, I think it's important to note:  I asked a simple question about whether or not infants were naturally mindful by default.  This question was dodged and avoided probably because it is yet another disproof of buddhist teachings ( or at least how buddhism is being understood and spoken about here ).

 

But, it's a valid question, and I think its useful on its own outside of any buddhist context relating to feelings, mental perceptions, and the nature of suffering as contrasted with pain.
 

 

Maybe they're mindful until they hit the terrible two's, where a certain grasping after self occurs.

 

 

[Mark Foote]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

You asked a question, I answered it.  Did you read it or not?
 

Say, Daniel--here's a thought for you.   Maybe it's about a chaining of consciousnesses, more than physical rebirth.  Note the second and third elements in the chain below--the persistence of consciousness, the stationing of consciousness:
 

That which we will…, and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:–this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill.
 

Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness… whence birth… takes place.
 

But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and herefrom birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill.
 

(SN II 65, Pali Text Society SN Vol II pg 45)

 

 

The definition of suffering (dukkha, anguish, ill):
 

“Birth is anguish, old age and decay, sickness, death, sorrow, grief, woe, lamentation, and despair are anguish. Not to get what one desires is anguish. In short, the five groups based on grasping are anguish.”
 

(AN I 176, Vol I pg 160; Pali “dukkha”: “anguish” in MN, “Ill” in AN original above, emphasis added)

 

The five groups (note the benefit of detachment, losing conceits about action in the body):
 

Whatever … is material shape, past, future or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, mean or excellent, or whatever is far or near, [a person], thinking of all this material shape as ‘This is not mine, this am I not, this is not my self’, sees it thus as it really is by means of perfect wisdom. Whatever is feeling … perception… the habitual tendencies… whatever is consciousness, past, future or present… [that person], thinking of all this consciousness as ‘This is not mine, this am I not, this is not my self’, sees it thus as it really is by means of perfect wisdom. [For one] knowing thus, seeing thus, there are no latent conceits that ‘I am the doer, mine is the doer’ in regard to this consciousness-informed body.”
 

(MN III 18-19, Vol III pg 68)

 

The exercise of will, of intent, or even just continued deliberation with the mind, results in a persistence of consciousness.  Persistence leads to a stationing.  

The opposite of "a stationing":
 

There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence.
 

(Common Ground)

 

When necessity places attention, and a presence of mind is retained as the placement shifts and moves, then in Gautama’s words, “[one] lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness”:
 

Herein… the (noble) disciple, making self-surrender the object of (their) thought, lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness.  (The disciple), aloof from sensuality, aloof from evil conditions, enters on the first trance, which is accompanied by thought directed and sustained, which is born of solitude, easeful and zestful, and abides therein.
 

(SN v 198, Pali Text Society vol V p 174; parenthetical material paraphrases original; “directed” also rendered as “initial” MN III p 78 and as “applied” PTS AN III p 18-19)

 

 

(Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Cobie]

 

21 hours ago, Maddie said:

… the Buddha did not say what happens after the death of an enlightened being … 

 

On 14/11/2023 at 2:30 AM, old3bob said:

… “There is, Oh Monks, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. Monks, if that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded.”   Udāna 8.3

— Buddha

Hmm …

[old3bob]

The definition of suffering (dukkha, anguish, ill):  from Mark:
 

“Birth is anguish, old age and decay, sickness, death, sorrow, grief, woe, lamentation, and despair are anguish. Not to get what one desires is anguish. In short, the five groups based on grasping are anguish.”
 

And of course all of those morbid ponderings are offset by their opposites like youth, health, life, happiness, joy, celebration, life force giving freedom and compassion.

[old3bob]

21 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Hmm …

 

 

an enlightened being has no place for the "rhinoceros" horn of death, for then it death that dies.

 

Again for the doubters, it is death that dies and not the life of life, although any form of life joined at the hip with death does pass...the rhinoceros is mentioned in the (Tao Teh Ching)

Edited November 18, 2023 by old3bob

[Cobie]

 

3 hours ago, Cobie said:

Hmm … [re Buddhism]

 

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

an enlightened being has no place for the "rhinoceros" horn of death, for then it death that dies.

 

... the rhinoceros is mentioned in the (Tao Teh Ching)

 (How do I break this to you gently?) the Buddha did not write the TTC. 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Cobie

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

(How do I break this to you gently?) the Buddha did not write the TTC.

 

 

This is TheDaoBums where anything is possible.

[old3bob]

i also hate to break it to some, this is not the Buddhist forum nor a revealed Taoist saying for those that don't understand it.

Edited November 18, 2023 by old3bob

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

No you misunderstand. I'm tired of debating you so I'm going to stop. My suffering has ended. 😇

 

 

Wow !   and you did that without obliterating him  !  

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

No lol

 

may I ask ; is that really a picture of you ... or are you some old fat  bald guy sitting in an apartment complex  in Russia in a white singlet  smoking a cigar  and playing on the internet ? 

 

Spoiler

Well ... this is the feeling and perception thread    

 

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Apech said:

you never ask how old I am!

 

My powers of feeling and mental perception indicate about  9 yo .

 

 That's fairly mature for a cat .

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

may I ask ; is that really a picture of you ... or are you some old fat  bald guy sitting in an apartment complex  in Russia in a white singlet  smoking a cigar  and playing on the internet ? 

 

  Hide contents

Well ... this is the feeling and perception thread    

 

 

hahahah yes that is really a picture of me 

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

"I'm tired of debating you"

 

Ah.  So you were the one agitated not me.  It doesn't need to be a debate, it could be a discussion.  If one individual in a discussion repeatedly dodges questions and avoids answering by posting big irrelevant diagrams, or making out of context remarks, it might become a debate if the other party pushes them for answers. 

 

I'm not tired yet   I just woke up    

 

Maddie said she was tired ... not agitated

 

maybe she got tired of  you putting  words in her mouth  ?     

 

.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Nungali

[Cobie]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

… yes that is really a picture of me 

Righto, but when was it taken? Is it a recent one? Or (as anything is possible on TDB), is it a future one? 

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

This is TheDaoBums where anything is possible.

 

Meet me in my new thread  for discussion ;

 

' The Buddha actually wrote the Tao te Ching '

[Maddie]

Just now, Cobie said:

Righto, but when was it taken? Is it a recent one? Or (as anything is possible on TDB), is it a future one? 

 

I think that was taken about a month or two ago. I took this one this morning on the way to work since ya'll seem so curious lol

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Meet me in my new thread  for discussion ;

 

' The Buddha actually wrote the Tao te Ching '

 

Is that the one next to "Jesus actually wrote the US constitution"?

[Apech]

11 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Righto, but when was it taken? Is it a recent one? Or (as anything is possible on TDB), is it a future one? 

 

Just now, Maddie said:

 

Is that the one next to "Jesus actually wrote the US constitution"?

 

It's the one next to @Cobie would like to meet you for drinks after the thread.