Differences between dualism and non-dualism

[ralis]

Ramana Maharshi sat around in diapers and his devotees fed, changed his diapers and bathed him. I guess that is what some want here? Don’t ask me. 🤣🤣🤣

[dwai]

3 minutes ago, ralis said:

Ramana Maharshi sat around in diapers and his devotees fed, changed his diapers and bathed him. I guess that is what some want here? Don’t ask me. 🤣🤣🤣

Give it time — we’ll all end up in diapers, getting our tushies wiped, being bathed and fed (if we’re lucky). We started that way, and we will likely end that way. What we do in the middle parts is relevant. 
 

The question is, are we going to be equanimous or miserable. 

 

And don’t ask me who “we” are. All things that begin, have an end. We are all born with a terminal condition called life after all. 

[ralis]

16 minutes ago, dwai said:

Give it time — we’ll all end up in diapers, getting our tushies wiped, being bathed and fed (if we’re lucky). We started that way, and we will likely end that way. What we do in the middle parts is relevant. 
 

The question is, are we going to be equanimous or miserable. 

 

And don’t ask me who “we” are. All things that begin, have an end. We are all born with a terminal condition called life after all. 

Speak for yourself about the diapers because I am not wearing them. 🤣🤣🤣

 

We is a plural pronoun where you have included all persons or at least implied it. Don’t include me in “we” since I am opting out as a choice. 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by ralis

[Bindi]

20 minutes ago, ralis said:

Ramana Maharshi sat around in diapers and his devotees fed, changed his diapers and bathed him. I guess that is what some want here? Don’t ask me. 🤣🤣🤣

Was this throughout his life whist in Samadhi or at the end of his life when he had cancer?

[ralis]

2 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Was this throughout his life whist in Samadhi or at the end of his life when he had cancer?

 

I believe during Samadhi.

[Bindi]

2 minutes ago, ralis said:

 

I believe during Samadhi.

Then clearly this is not inevitable for all of us. 

[silent thunder]

Diapers are wholly unnecessary... why else do you think the Scots created kilts?

[dwai]

24 minutes ago, ralis said:

Speak for yourself about the diapers because I am not wearing them. 🤣🤣🤣

 

We is a plural pronoun where you have included all persons or at least implied it. Don’t include me in “we” since I am opting out as a choice. 

Those are our pronouns - “us/we/ours”. 👀

[dwai]

22 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Was this throughout his life whist in Samadhi or at the end of his life when he had cancer?

He wore a loin-cloth - they were not diapers. In India they are called “langoti” or “kaupinam”. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaupinam

 

A lot of celibate sadhus wear them. 
 

Spoiler

 

Also, there was a period right after his enlightenment when he spent extended periods of time in nirvikalpa samadhi at the foot of the thiruvanamalai temple. He was oblivious to his body. At times ants and other insects started to eat his body. So when the devotees at the temple discovered it, they would tend to him. They would feed him when he came out of samadhi. 

Later on, he climbed up the arunachala mountain and lived in a cave. Eventually his followers formed an ashram for him, and a community of disciples formed around him. 
 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by dwai

[ralis]

7 minutes ago, dwai said:

He wore a loin-cloth - they were not diapers. In India they are called “langoti” or “kaupinam”. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaupinam

 

A lot of celibate sadhus wear them. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

He was in deep samadhi and was unable to tend to basic needs. 

[ralis]

13 minutes ago, dwai said:

Those are our pronouns - “us/we/ours”. 👀

You are granted special use? Further, most are not in agreement with your world view. 

[Bindi]

6 minutes ago, dwai said:

He wore a loin-cloth - they were not diapers. In India they are called “langoti” or “kaupinam”. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaupinam

 

A lot of celibate sadhus wear them. 
 

  Hide contents

 

 

Diapers/loin cloths aside, I thought ralis was referring to Ramana being in samadhi for great lengths of time and having his bodily functions looked after by his followers. Some people spend years in this type of samadhi on and off, it’s an extreme way to get to experience the “Self”, I personally think there are better ways to become at one with the Self or however you’d like to term it. 

[old3bob]

 

"someday I'd like to try the eternity trip",  what an old buddy of mine once said after which we immediately cracked up.  ;-) 

[old3bob]

 

"Samadhi for great lengths' of time"....samadhi does not run on a  clock.

[Bindi]

Maybe not for the meditator but the followers knew how long he was in samadhi for and how many dirty loin cloths they cleaned. 

[dwai]

22 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Diapers/loin cloths aside, I thought ralis was referring to Ramana being in samadhi for great lengths of time and having his bodily functions looked after by his followers. Some people spend years in this type of samadhi on and off, it’s an extreme way to get to experience the “Self”, I personally think there are better ways to become at one with the Self or however you’d like to term it. 

There are many ways to realize the Self.
 

There are four types of jnanis recognized according to Advaita traditions. Ramana was one of the four.
 

Here “type” is with reference to the nature of the mind of the transactional individual who is awakened. 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by dwai

[dwai]

24 minutes ago, ralis said:

You are granted special use? Further, most are not in agreement with your world view. 

Get with the program buddy. We already established that nondualists  may use those pronouns.  

Edited June 7, 2022 by dwai

[steve]

24 minutes ago, ralis said:

You are granted special use? Further, most are not in agreement with your world view. 

Sorry, you don’t get to define our pronouns. Get with it ralis!

😘

[steve]

Next you’ll be telling us we’re too nondual to use the little Bums room. In which case we’d say we use All the bathrooms!

[dwai]

7 minutes ago, Bindi said:

Maybe not for the meditator but the followers knew how long he was in samadhi for and how many dirty loin cloths they cleaned. 

I like @silent thunder’s proposal of wearing a kilt. Though it might be a bit warm for the southern Indian climes. So the loincloth might be better suited there. Scotland mystics please wear kilts. American ones can opt for buckskin or denim. Australians can refer to their local native elders for guidance. 

[steve]

 

I used to be partial to sarongs, easily transformed from loincloth to kilt-like garment as desired.

Got used to them when performing in a Balinese gamelan, very comfy in warm weather.

Spoiler

 

13 hours ago, Bindi said:

I see it as once created, the fear has to be fully felt and processed before it can dissipate and stop repeating itself, sounds like ghosts of our pasts that have to be put to rest. The question is, is nonduality in and of itself enough to actually resolve these fear echoes? 

 

The dzogchen teachings say yes, though others have consistently challenged their claims in Buddhism and other traditions. Arguably there is no more effective or expeditious method, provided we have a karmic connection to the teachings and lineage. 

 

[Mark Foote]

4 hours ago, ralis said:

 

I have mentioned on this forum regarding my history with PTSD that went on for decades most every night, same time most every night. Guess what triggered the events at the very beginning? Vipassana meditation! That wasn’t the cause, but the trigger that set it off. 

 

Have you seen Adventures at the Vipassana Enlightenment Factory?  Karan Vasudeva took fastidious notes on his experience, and although it wasn't a triggering event for him, the strangeness of the whole experience comes across clearly.  I've read the accounts of others being triggered by Vipassana retreats, as well.
 

[Mark Foote]

3 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

I do wonder if fear is a conditioned response actually, after being bitten by a dog I developed a fear of dogs, it was a learnt behaviour. 

 

Goleman's "Emotional Intelligence" explores the way the amygdala stores memories of hurt and harm and bypasses the frontal cortex to induce immediate response, in similar situations.

[ralis]

1 hour ago, steve said:

Next you’ll be telling us we’re too nondual to use the little Bums room. In which case we’d say we use All the bathrooms!

 

 

Beyond non-dual is that one doesn't have the need to eliminate at all. It transforms to light. 

[manitou]

On 6/5/2022 at 6:56 PM, Bindi said:

Wouldn’t the nondualist accept that fear is present, not wishing to change it or the manifested action in any way? 

 

 

Not so, Bindi.  When one is in awareness, you are One with the Whole.  When that is the case, there is no room for fear, as you are part of everything.  This is what the DDJ talks about when it says that nothing happens to the sage.  Sometimes I wonder if this is how snake charmers do it.

 

Being in Oneness, achieving self-awareness, is not something that can be argued.  It happens when it happens.  The one thing that prevents its arising is ego and argumentation.  Things don't resonate until they do.  By you 'not buying it', as you say, you are driving your self awareness further away and firming up your spiritual conditioning, which is the very thing you want to get rid of.  You don't have to buy anything.  Just be open minded about everything.  You're so close, but you have to let the cogitation go.  You can't think your way into it.  Best to develop the beginner's mind at this point.  If you've developed the ability for no-thought at all, it will be found here.

 

Best wishes.