cosmic4z

"You can't polish a turd"

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So, I’ve been using a particular online discussion forum (not this one) for a few years now, and found it to have a very wide spectrum of people, with all personality types, political views, IQ levels (!), life experience etc.

 

Now, a very wise person once told me, "You can't polish a turd". I think the meaning of the phrase is, you just can’t help or educate some people (perhaps they don’t want to change), and if you try, you just end up with ‘doggy do do’ all over yourself.

 

The fault of course, is always with the one doing the ‘polishing’. To engage in the act of polishing a turd, you must first assume that you are in possession of facts, truth, wisdom; and, that the other guy is ready and happy to recieve the wisdom you have to impart. All, massive assumptions. There's also an assumed superiority. Uck!

 

I mean, why are you even trying to educate them in the first place? It’s not like they’ve come to you, and offered to pay you for the privilege of you educating them. So, what’s in it for you?

 

I’m talking about myself of course; just trying to understand my motives, such that I avoid ‘doggy do do’ in future…

 

Any thoughts? Thanks

 

p.s. I think this forum seems a lot nicer, but then I've only been here like 2 seconds (practically, compared to most of you).

Edited by cosmic4z
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4 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

So, I’ve been using a particular online discussion forum (not this one) for a few years now, and found it to have a very wide spectrum of people, with all personality types, political views, IQ levels (!), life experience etc.

 

Now, a very wise person once told me, "You can't polish a turd". I think the meaning of the phrase is, you just can’t help or educate some people (perhaps they don’t want to change), and if you try, you just end up with ‘doggy do do’ all over yourself.

 

The fault of course, is always with the one doing the ‘polishing’. To engage in the act of polishing a turd, you must first assume that you are in possession of facts, truth, wisdom; and, that the other guy is ready and happy to recieve the wisdom you have to impart. All, massive assumptions. There's also an assumed superiority. Uck!

 

Try this instead ;

 

What 'other guy' ?   Dont focus on any one person but think there might be  'passers -by ' that occasionally read, understand and learn .

 

The ones that are not happy to learn will ignore it and you will not know, or they will try to negatively engage with you  , then you can deal with that how you will .

 

 

 

Quote

 

I mean, why are you even trying to educate them in the first place? It’s not like they’ve come to you, and offered to pay you for the privilege of you educating them. So, what’s in it for you?

 

I’m talking about myself of course; just trying to understand my motives, such that I avoid ‘doggy do do’ in future…

 

Just be discerning who you engage with then .

 

 

Quote

 

Any thoughts? Thanks

 

p.s. I think this forum seems a lot nicer, but then I've only been here like 2 seconds (practically, compared to most of you).

 

It can be .... but occasionally the type of person that I think you are referring to pops up ..... I mean ,  poops  up .    :) 

Edited by Nungali
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7 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

It can be .... but occasionally the type of person that I think you are referring to pops up ..... I mean ,  poops  up .    :) 

LOL!

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Thank you Nungali.

 

Yes, on a public forum, other people may get some value for any observations or insights we post.

 

I feel like I kind of got in to an ego battle with this chap, it was clear he wasn’t open and self-reflective, and that what I was saying just wasn’t resonating with or helping him. I’ve nipped it in the bud now, but should have done so earlier.

 

I’m left feeling I’ve not really helped this person, probably just pissed him off, and I really don’t want to be doing that, it just doesn’t help anyone. We’re all in different places I guess.

 

I need to take a break from that other forum!

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5 minutes ago, cosmic4z said:

Thank you Nungali.

 

Yes, on a public forum, other people may get some value for any observations or insights we post.

 

I feel like I kind of got in to an ego battle with this chap, it was clear he wasn’t open and self-reflective, and that what I was saying just wasn’t resonating with or helping him. I’ve nipped it in the bud now, but should have done so earlier.

 

I’m left feeling I’ve not really helped this person, probably just pissed him off, and I really don’t want to be doing that, it just doesn’t help anyone. We’re all in different places I guess.

 

I need to take a break from that other forum!

 

Dang it as hard as we try we can lead them to water, but if it don't meet their needs they are not going to drink. 

I have often had more success with Spirts or Meade than with water.

And more fun too!

 

Except when exploring some nakid water sports with the devil's lettuce or brew. 

Ymmv

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9 minutes ago, wstein said:

Off topic but ...

Here is a video of actual polished turds

 

Mythbusters Polishing a Turd

[\url]

I stand corrected.  They can indeed shine.

lmao thanks for sharing mate.  I dearly love Adam, he and I work in the same field and he's like a long lost brother. 

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13 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

Now, a very wise person once told me, "You can't polish a turd". I think the meaning of the phrase is, you just can’t help or educate some people (perhaps they don’t want to change), and if you try, you just end up with ‘doggy do do’ all over yourself.

 

The fault of course, is always with the one doing the ‘polishing’. To engage in the act of polishing a turd, you must first assume that you are in possession of facts, truth, wisdom; and, that the other guy is ready and happy to recieve the wisdom you have to impart. All, massive assumptions. There's also an assumed superiority. Uck!

 

I mean, why are you even trying to educate them in the first place? It’s not like they’ve come to you, and offered to pay you for the privilege of you educating them. So, what’s in it for you?

....

Any thoughts? Thanks

To be sure a certain percentage (majority?) of those that try to 'polish' others come from a perspective of presuming they know better (inflated ego).

 

One possible viable motivation to educating others is that they will start acting a a way you find more favorable. Example: pull the door all the way closed until it latches so the dog doesn't get out so much.

 

[advanced] It is entirely possible to be instrumental in others learning something you don't know better, can't do, or sometimes even know what they need to 'learn'. The distinction is that you are not trying to 'teach' them anything. One approach is to provide lessons such that they can educate themselves. Another approach is to symbolically see where they are and where they need to be and then nudge them in various ways until they move closer to where they need to be.

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I prefer the expression:

 

A snake is a snake, no matter how many times it sheds it’s skin.

 

People can change.

But a snake is a snake.

When you identify someone without integrity, get rid of them.

No matter how many times they promises to turn over a new leaf, they will revert to the original state.

 

.............

 

Many lifetimes to polish that 'turd' and turn it into a diamond. We all go through that process which unfortunately can't be speeded up. Luckily the Mind has built-in a *'reset' mechanism so when you finish this lifetime it's a fresh start onto the next one. 

 

*Parts can still be accessed through internal work though but the results are random and left to chance. It's a siddhi.

Edited by Gerard

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18 hours ago, cosmic4z said:

Thank you Nungali.

 

Yes, on a public forum, other people may get some value for any observations or insights we post.

 

I feel like I kind of got in to an ego battle with this chap, it was clear he wasn’t open and self-reflective, and that what I was saying just wasn’t resonating with or helping him. I’ve nipped it in the bud now, but should have done so earlier.

 

I’m left feeling I’ve not really helped this person, probably just pissed him off, and I really don’t want to be doing that, it just doesn’t help anyone. We’re all in different places I guess.

 

I need to take a break from that other forum!

 

I have learned that, for me, the value in participating in a forum like this isn’t so much related to the information exchange. It is more the camaraderie and the opportunity to look at myself more closely. In watching what I post and when, how I respond to others and how they respond to me, I can see myself a bit more clearly, in the mirror of others and in having the ability to see my own activity here months and years later. It’s fascinating. Helping others is wonderful and sacred, and quite delicate and challenging even under the best of circumstances. On an anonymous message board those circumstances are far from ideal. I have found it helpful to exercise a bit of caution whenever the “helper” identity surfaces. Sometimes I think I can help more by simply observing.

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On 2-2-2022 at 4:32 PM, cosmic4z said:

Now, a very wise person once told me, "You can't polish a turd". I think the meaning of the phrase is, you just can’t help or educate some people (perhaps they don’t want to change), and if you try, you just end up with ‘doggy do do’ all over yourself.

 

there are so many ways communication can and will go awry, digitally it's even worse then irl. It made me think of

 

I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

 

When you get no flow in communication it's just time to move on.

(except when it's close relations or friends  of course, then a deeper look into what's happening is warranted)

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On 3-2-2022 at 6:49 AM, Gerard said:

People can change.

But a snake is a snake.

When you identify someone without integrity, get rid of them.

No matter how many times they promises to turn over a new leaf, they will revert to the original state.

 

I trust you're not talking about me eh, shhhh

 

the spectacled cobra - shedding its skin | Ranjana Thomas | Flickr

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On 03/02/2022 at 4:59 AM, wstein said:

[advanced] It is entirely possible to be instrumental in others learning something you don't know better, can't do, or sometimes even know what they need to 'learn'. The distinction is that you are not trying to 'teach' them anything. One approach is to provide lessons such that they can educate themselves. Another approach is to symbolically see where they are and where they need to be and then nudge them in various ways until they move closer to where they need to be.

 

Fantastic, thank you for your suggestions.

 

I think for sure, when I find myself in a battle, something has certainly gone wrong. Perhaps taking things slowly makes more sense; and then tailor things based on their response, or withdraw altogether.

 

I also think, minding my own business is the big lesson here for me. It's not like I've got my own shit sorted 100%, and I can afford to go about 'fixing' other people. It's incredibly presumptuous of me to think I'm even in a position to do so. Implies I am wiser, more knowledgeable and have more life experience that the other guy. There's also the big factor of my motivation.

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On 03/02/2022 at 5:49 AM, Gerard said:

People can change.

But a snake is a snake.

When you identify someone without integrity, get rid of them.

No matter how many times they promises to turn over a new leaf, they will revert to the original state.

 

We're all in different places aren't we!?

 

I often see character flaws in other people, that are the flaws I've also had in the past. I feel like we're all in the process of change, perhaps some change at a slower pace than others; but change is inevitable. No? What do you think?

 

Is it possible to be a snake, and to never change? Or to change at such a slow pace as to be negligible?

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8 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

there are so many ways communication can and will go awry, digitally it's even worse then irl. It made me think of

 

I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

 

When you get no flow in communication it's just time to move on.

(except when it's close relations or friends  of course, then a deeper look into what's happening is warranted)

 

Thank you. I completely agree.

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On 2/2/2022 at 11:59 PM, wstein said:

advanced] It is entirely possible to be instrumental in others learning something you don't know better, can't do, or sometimes even know what they need to 'learn'. The distinction is that you are not trying to 'teach' them anything. One approach is to provide lessons such that they can educate themselves. Another approach is to symbolically see where they are and where they need to be and then nudge them in various ways until they move closer to where they need to be.

 

Yet another method of teaching, particularly in spiritual and martial matters, is by example. No need to preach or even teach, simply live it. Share it through relationship. The most powerful lessons I’ve had were to be in the presence of masters walking the walk. If we want to teach, we need to do so through our view, practice, action, and realization.

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Inner Alchemy (from The Holy Mountain, directed by Alejandro Jodorowsky)

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On 03/02/2022 at 4:49 PM, Gerard said:

I prefer the expression:

 

A snake is a snake, no matter how many times it sheds it’s skin.

 

People can change.

But a snake is a snake.

When you identify someone without integrity, get rid of them.

 

 

 

Okie dokie  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCbtHTnA0B_FqfF3renKp

 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I trust you're not talking about me eh, shhhh

 

the spectacled cobra - shedding its skin | Ranjana Thomas | Flickr

 

 

I love snakes in fact. Saw one today in one of my mountain runs. The way they move is captivating. Snakes are the deepest thinkers in Chinese astrology (Year of the Snake). 

 

The quote I used is figurative and a very well thought one. ;)

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22 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

there are so many ways communication can and will go awry, digitally it's even worse then irl. It made me think of

 

I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you.

 

When you get no flow in communication it's just time to move on.

(except when it's close relations or friends  of course, then a deeper look into what's happening is warranted)

 

that reminds me of the fact that it is difficult to remember what someone else forgot, although extrapolation may cover some of it.

 

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