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The God(s) answer to no one!  They are an unknown!  Their law is do what thou wilt, and they deserve neither condemnation nor praise!  If you want to live for love and kindness, then do that.  If you want to live for power and wealth, then do that!  The Gods will do what they will do, and so should you.  

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16 minutes ago, helpfuldemon said:

The God(s) answer to no one!  They are an unknown!  Their law is do what thou wilt, and they deserve neither condemnation nor praise!  If you want to live for love and kindness, then do that.  If you want to live for power and wealth, then do that!  The Gods will do what they will do, and so should you.  

 

The point I was making was that the path of humility may be a bit out of reach for some. 

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On 9/10/2021 at 7:28 AM, Daniel said:

 

Yes, belief that one is the subject of God's interest, more so than others, is a delusion of granduer.  Being the target of a powerful demon or demons, imo, is another example.  Belief that one has predicted the war in the Middle East is another example. 

 

 

And in the final run, belief is just something that is a product of our conditioning.  Every single person on this earth, whether then, now, or later - has had different conditioning.  If we sit across from each other in a restaurant, we are having two different experiences.  I'm looking at the pretty view and you're watching the sweaty kitchen workers.  I guarantee we'll come back with two different impressions of the experience.  :huh:

 

It seems so silly for any one belief, religion, cult - to think that their particular path is any better than any other path.  The thing we all have in common all around the world is the inner urge to know.  Whatever folklore we happen to be born into is our very challenge in this life; to break through this familial or societal conditioning and get to where the clarity resides.  It is contained within no boat that got us across the river.  The boat is ultimately discarded, but available for visitation always..

 

Belief in demons or angels is a conditioned belief system.  This makes it no less real!  Sometimes these things develop out of a young child's need to get attention away from another sibling - so many things could have started the ball rolling.  But roll it does.  I personally think that if you, @helpfuldemon, ever got to the point where you managed to see that all things are really unified - and to know me is the very same as to know you.  We are one.  But we have forgotten that, from the huddled tribe days.  We are merely one spirit walking around in separate skin bags - but in actuality, we are all the very same ocean, and you know what happens when two water drops run into each other on your windshield.  Can't tell 'em apart any more  :D  This is also the very mindset that is needed to love people unconditionally.

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Are you saying that there is no difference between a murderer, a thief, and you?  And that you can love these types unconditionally?

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On 9/11/2021 at 6:52 PM, manitou said:

 

And in the final run, belief is just something that is a product of our conditioning.  Every single person on this earth, whether then, now, or later - has had different conditioning.  If we sit across from each other in a restaurant, we are having two different experiences.  I'm looking at the pretty view and you're watching the sweaty kitchen workers.  I guarantee we'll come back with two different impressions of the experience.  :huh:

 

 

:) Hopefully it wouldn't be vastly different...

 

On 9/11/2021 at 6:52 PM, manitou said:

It seems so silly for any one belief, religion, cult - to think that their particular path is any better than any other path.  The thing we all have in common all around the world is the inner urge to know.  Whatever folklore we happen to be born into is our very challenge in this life; to break through this familial or societal conditioning and get to where the clarity resides.  It is contained within no boat that got us across the river.  The boat is ultimately discarded, but available for visitation always..

 

One person's conditioning, is another person's culture.

 

On 9/11/2021 at 6:52 PM, manitou said:

Belief in demons or angels is a conditioned belief system.  This makes it no less real!  Sometimes these things develop out of a young child's need to get attention away from another sibling - so many things could have started the ball rolling.  But roll it does.  I personally think that if you, @helpfuldemon, ever got to the point where you managed to see that all things are really unified - and to know me is the very same as to know you.  We are one.  But we have forgotten that, from the huddled tribe days.  We are merely one spirit walking around in separate skin bags - but in actuality, we are all the very same ocean, and you know what happens when two water drops run into each other on your windshield.  Can't tell 'em apart any more  :D  This is also the very mindset that is needed to love people unconditionally.

 

You may be right.  I see it a little differently.  Perhaps this will resonate with @helpfuldemon, and provide some relief.

 

Edited by Daniel

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11 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

Are you saying that there is no difference between a murderer, a thief, and you?  And that you can love these types unconditionally?

 

In theory, one could isolate these individuals in order to prevent them from causing more harm and continuing to bring karma onto themselves.

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2 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

We have that already, its called prison :P


Except it achieves none of those objectives and does precisely the opposite 😜

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14 hours ago, helpfuldemon said:

We have that already, its called prison :P

 

The point I was trying to make, is that there is a form of unconditional love which is appropriate for thieves, muderers, etc.  It involves isolation.

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"That the world was and will be crap,

I already know In 510 and in 2021 too That there have always been jets, Machiavellians and scammed

Happy and bitter, values and I doubled

But that the 21th century is a display of insolent wickedness, there is no one who denies it

We live wallowing in a dirty soap

And in the same mud, all groped

Today it turns out that it is the same to be a right than a traitor Ignorant, wise or squirt, pretentious con man

Everything is the same, nothing is better The same a donkey as a great teacher There are no postponements, what will there be?

Nor ladder

The immoral have equaled us

If one lives in imposture and another strives in his ambition

It does not matter if he is a priest, mattress, king of clubs, badass or stowaway

What lack of respect, what a trampling of reason!

Anyone is a lord, anyone is a thief

Mixed with Toscanini, it goes Escarfaso and Napoleon

Don Bosco and the Mignón, Carnera and San Martín

Just like in the disrespectful window

From the exchanges life has been mixed And wounded by a rivetless saber

You see the Bible crying next to a water heater

Twentieth century, troubled and feverish trade

The one who does not cry does not breastfeed and the one who does not steal is a dump

Just give it, give it that goes

That there in the oven we are going to find Think no more, sit aside

That nobody cares if you were born honored

If it is the same the one that work

Night and day like an ox

That the one who lives off the bitches Than the one who kills, than the one who cures

Or is it outside the law"

 

From Tango Cambalache by Julio Sosa

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On 9/12/2021 at 11:10 PM, helpfuldemon said:

Are you saying that there is no difference between a murderer, a thief, and you?  And that you can love these types unconditionally?

 

 

I'm not sure there's a murderous type.  I was married to a man for 35 years who had a horrendous background, one of his crimes being murder.  Also transporting prostitutes across state lines, and also a thief.  And addicted to heroin, to boot.

 

This man, by hitting his bottom, turned his life around to the point where he died an enlightened one.  This is where the concept of no-judgment is so crucial, IMO.  Had I turned my back on him because of his past, I would never have had the wonderful years (the latter ones) I had with him.  A magical man.

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