We have a vaccine!

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, sagebrush said:

 

 

......... We have to listen to real experts.....

 

 

Sagebrush;  "  .... .Nowhere in any post  inside this vaccine thread did I state that I trust experts. So officially you are incorrect. ......  " 

 

 

 

- or maybe  you could learn how to use   quote  function and respond better ? 

 

https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/general_writing/academic_writing/paragraphs_and_paragraphing/index.html

 

.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Nungali

[Nungali]

12 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

 

But is this really Tiffany Dover, or an actor pretending to be Tiffany Dover (because Nungali’s link shows that Tiffany Dover was suspected to have died).
 

Does she really have a history of fainting, or is this just part of the coverup again? Is her explanation scripted? 
 

 

 

There was a mixup with her name  ..... her middle name became her surname in one record .

 

Its another strange 'why '.

 

If its a cover up then why x y z ?   if it wasnt then why a b c  ... none of it makes much sense

 

circles within circles within circles

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/dantes-9-circles-of-hell-741539

[Toni]

more problems with the vaccine: a person in finland and a 32 years old woman in mexico have problems after getting the first shot

 

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finland_reports_first_adverse_reaction_to_coronavirus_vaccine/11722156

 

https://elpais.com/mexico/2021-01-02/una-doctora-en-mexico-sufre-reacciones-graves-tras-recibir-la-vacuna-de-pfizer.html

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, Toni said:

more problems with the vaccine: a person in finland and a 32 years old woman in mexico have problems after getting the first shot

 

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finland_reports_first_adverse_reaction_to_coronavirus_vaccine/11722156

From your link:

“The number of allergic reactions worldwide to the coronavirus vaccine is currently occurring at a rate of about one in 100,000 people. Usually, the rate of adverse reactions to vaccinations is about one per one million. 

"Time will tell whether this rate will continue or whether it will settle closer to one per one million. At the moment, these allergic reactions have become somewhat more pronounced than in other vaccines," Nohynek said, adding that she still urges everyone in Finland to take the vaccine as it provides protection against the virus.

"The benefits of the vaccine far outweigh the side effects. Vaccinations should not be abandoned because of concerns over adverse reactions," Nohynek said.”

The relatively higher rate of reaction - one in 100,000 people, is likely to be because they rushed the vaccine through, in an effort to stem the 14,000 daily deaths from COVID worldwide. 

 

1 hour ago, Toni said:

 

https://elpais.com/mexico/2021-01-02/una-doctora-en-mexico-sufre-reacciones-graves-tras-recibir-la-vacuna-de-pfizer.html

 

[Toni]

26 minutes ago, Bindi said:

From your link:

“The number of allergic reactions worldwide to the coronavirus vaccine is currently occurring at a rate of about one in 100,000 people. Usually, the rate of adverse reactions to vaccinations is about one per one million. 

"Time will tell whether this rate will continue or whether it will settle closer to one per one million. At the moment, these allergic reactions have become somewhat more pronounced than in other vaccines," Nohynek said, adding that she still urges everyone in Finland to take the vaccine as it provides protection against the virus.

"The benefits of the vaccine far outweigh the side effects. Vaccinations should not be abandoned because of concerns over adverse reactions," Nohynek said.”

The relatively higher rate of reaction - one in 100,000 people, is likely to be because they rushed the vaccine through, in an effort to stem the 14,000 daily deaths from COVID worldwide. 

 

 

So the rush is bc they want to save lives (from a common flu) not bc the huge profit. Good one!

[sagebrush]

5 hours ago, Nungali said:

- or maybe  you could learn how to use   quote  function and respond better ? 

yes I need to learn to use quotes better. I will get right on that.

 

I have to take a little practice charm talisman over to my PPD. Please take a look

 

 

 

 

[Bindi]

6 minutes ago, Toni said:

So the rush is bc they want to save lives (from a common flu) not bc the huge profit. Good one!

So COVID is just a common flu huh? Even though it’s a coronavirus, not an influenza virus, and clearly has a higher death rate than flu? 
 

The organisations rushing the vaccines through are not the ones making the profit anyway, drug companies don’t get to make the decision to rush through approval, that falls to government agencies. 
 

[Paradoxal]

 

[Paradoxal]

In all seriousness, I feel that the problem in this conversation lies in the sources used.

 

"Documentaries" are not valid sources, as they are meant to entertain with a flavor of information, rather than to provide actual information. This means that the people making said documentaries have motive and reason to alter what information is portrayed in order to make it more 'entertaining' at the cost of accuracy of information. 

 

News sites of any sort are generally not valid sources, as they have motive and reason (and history of doing so) to exaggerate or fabricate their information. More over-the-top news means more clicks for them, and the more clicks they get, the more money they get. Naturally, this applies to social media (Facebook, instagram, friend circles, etc.) and YouTube as well.

 

When doing research on this sort of topic, it would be important to use academic sources if possible, or if not possible, to use sources that are unbiased as possible. 

 

Here is a decent definition of an academic source:

 

https://www.library.illinois.edu/ugl/howdoi/scholarly/

 

and here is a decent list of the biases of news sites:

 

https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

 

The more biased a site is politically, the less accurate their information usually is (as they are more likely to attempt to frame things to make their favored party look better, thus providing motive for falsifying information). This naturally applies to both left-wing and right-wing sites.

 

In conclusion, especially if news or information is "shocking", it is important to ask oneself if the information source has motive to make it shocking, and if they do have motive, look for opposing sources and take the information with a grain of salt. 

[steve]

I explained to the grieving families of my colleagues who died after acquiring Covid from their patients that it is all a big lie and they could drop the facade. Curiously, the dead have not yet returned from their graves and their families continue to mourn - foolish sheep. Maybe my colleagues are hanging out somewhere with Elvis at a QAnon meeting, eating fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches and chuckling at our naïveté, preparing to surprise their mourning children someday with their miraculous recovery from the big lie.

 

Or maybe they're just fucking dead.

 

Want to know one difference between Influenza and Covid?

Influenza doesn't kill the doctors and nurses caring for their patients.

https://act.nationalnursesunited.org/page/-/files/graphics/0920_Covid19_SinsOfOmission_Data_Report.pdf

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85867

 

I gratefully received my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine 2 weeks ago and look forward to the second dose next week.

Given that I have a few risk factors for more serious illness, I'm hoping to get the second shot before getting Covid. Several people at work have had or currently have Covid. One of my close friend/partner's entire family is currently ill with Covid. His oldest son is severely immunocompromised due to chronic illness and we're all on eggshells waiting to see if he survives.

 

I haven't encountered many touting the theory that it's all a big lie among those courageous folks treating the unfortunate victims in our local hospitals. Our local hospitals have now set up "field units" to care for overflow patients in their underground parking lots. Watching terrified, vulnerable human beings struggle to breathe day after day for nearly a year is not conducive to denial or willful ignorance.

 

I'm grateful that most of us are spared those terrible experiences that some here would say turn them into "bitches."

I pray that all of you stay safe and healthy, whether you choose to be vaccinated or not. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

@steve

 

Thank you for continuing the work you do in these difficult circumstances.  I´m not sure I´d have the courage.

[steve]

Just now, liminal_luke said:

@steve

 

Thank you for continuing the work you do in these difficult circumstances.  I´m not sure I´d have the courage.

 

@liminal_luke

I have no doubt you would!

Your compassion always shines through your words.

[Apech]

@steve

 

Thank you steve.

[thelerner]

45 minutes ago, steve said:

I explained to the grieving families .. I'm grateful that most of us are spared those terrible experiences that some here would say turn them into "bitches."

I pray that all of you stay safe and healthy, whether you choose to be vaccinated or not. 

 

It must feel like being an astronaut

trying to explain his trip to a flat earther

but worse because you know lives are at stake.   

 

 

[Toni]

A 41 years old woman dies in portugal 2 days after the vaccine. She didn't have covid nor any previous disease

 

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/sociedad/2021/01/03/portugal-investiga-auxiliar-41-anos-fallecio-muerte-subita-dos-dias-despues-vacunarse/00031609691749649635697.htm

Edited January 3, 2021 by Toni

[ralis]

1 minute ago, Toni said:

A woman dies in portugal 2 days after the vaccine

 

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/sociedad/2021/01/03/portugal-investiga-auxiliar-41-anos-fallecio-muerte-subita-dos-dias-despues-vacunarse/00031609691749649635697.htm

A vaccine is not an instant cure! It takes up to two weeks to build up antibodies from the first dose. Even then masks along with social distancing and sanitary habits are still required. To achieve herd immunity a vaccination percentage of +- 80% is imperative. 
 

 

[steve]

17 minutes ago, thelerner said:

It must feel like being an astronaut

trying to explain his trip to a flat earther

but worse because you know lives are at stake.   

 

 

 

Excellent metaphor.

I've mostly given up trying to explain or convince anyone of anything.

People wear their beliefs like security blankets.

I learned several years ago debating a fundamentalist Christian friend that it's not my place to strip them of that security.

[steve]

3 minutes ago, ralis said:

A vaccine is not an instant cure! It takes up to two weeks to build up antibodies from the first dose. Even then masks along with social distancing and sanitary habits are still required. To achieve herd immunity a vaccination percentage of +- 80% is imperative. 
 

 

 

My understanding is that meaningful immunity occurs about 1 week after the second Pfizer or Moderna vaccine.

[Toni]

Update:

 

A 41 years old woman (a doctor) dies in portugal 2 days after the vaccine. She didn't have covid nor any previous disease

 

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/sociedad/2021/01/03/portugal-investiga-auxiliar-41-anos-fallecio-muerte-subita-dos-dias-despues-vacunarse/00031609691749649635697.htm

Edited January 3, 2021 by Toni

[ralis]

4 minutes ago, steve said:

 

My understanding is that meaningful immunity occurs about 1 week after the second Pfizer or Moderna vaccine.

Wasn’t certain the time frame on that. There must be a time frame depending on the individual?

[ralis]

6 minutes ago, Toni said:

Update:

 

A 41 years old woman (a doctor) dies in portugal 2 days after the vaccine. She didn't have covid nor any previous disease

 

https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/sociedad/2021/01/03/portugal-investiga-auxiliar-41-anos-fallecio-muerte-subita-dos-dias-despues-vacunarse/00031609691749649635697.htm

Your point being? There are persons that may have an allergic reaction to one of the components. Although, that is an extremely low percentage. Cost/benefit are the criteria that researchers analyze. 

Edited January 3, 2021 by ralis

[steve]

Just now, ralis said:

Wasn’t certain the time frame on that. There must be a time frame depending on the individual?

 

No doubt

I think it's early to drill down to much detail - lot's of variables to consider.

[ralis]

1 minute ago, steve said:

 

No doubt

I think it's early to drill down to much detail - lot's of variables to consider.

 

Agree!

Given the extremely short development for this vaccine there are still unknowns. 
 

Johns Hopkins state anywhere from 5-10 years. 
 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/timeline

[liminal_luke]

Vaccines are a complicated business.  I´m not capable of digging into the basic science myself, not capable of accurately weighing potential risks and benefits.  And so I rely on the opinions of others who are more biochemically inclined, not that that helps much: there are smart people both for and against.  It´s easy to imagine that pharmaceutical companies are motivated by factors other than my personal health.  Easy to see the conventional wisdom of government agencies and the medical industry through a jaundiced eye.  

 

If given the wand of public health zcar, I´d approach this whole thing differently.  There´s all sorts of evidence that adequate vitamin D protects against severe COVID so I´d get the word out.  We could print up T-shirts: Prevent Severe Infection, Take Your Shirt Off.  We could offer people free vitamin D screening, free vitamin D supplements for the many people who lack adequate vitamin D in their veins and adequate money in their wallets.  We could start programs to help people reverse many of the comorbidities that make COVID worse. Diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease --- in many cases these things are reversible through lifestyle choices.  People need education and support and if I was public health zcar I´d get on it.  Also, there´s lots of inexpensive natural remedy kind of stuff people can do in the early stages of the disease to stave off complications.  We could be putting a lot more resources into figuring out what to do before people need ventilators.

 

But I´m not public health zcar.  We´re not going to get free vitamin D or sensible government programs to help people turn around chronic disease.  We´re not going to get government encouragement to do things that might help but won´t make anybody money.  Well, other than the ubiquitous advice to wear masks and social distance.  People are desperate not to run out of toilet paper, but nobody is making a run for health food stores to load up on essential oil of eucalyptus.  What we´ve got are vaccines.

 

For me, the decision about whether or not to get vaccinated has interpersonal ramifications.  It´s not just me doing what I think is best for me.  It´s a little bit like wearing a seatbelt.  Is wearing a seatbelt a personal choice?  Is it solely a matter of individual freedom or do other people get to have a say in whether or not we buckle up?  While part of me would like to live in a just-me bubble, the truth is that other people will be effected if I get seriously hurt in an accident.  I live in a web of interconnections and have a responsibility to others, just as they have a responsibility to me.  This is especially true with COVID, a contagious disease.  What we choose to do or not do ripples through our social circles and the wider society.  I might choose not to get vaccinated based on my (imperfect) understanding of the science or even my political beliefs.  But if I decide against vaccination my mom won´t be happy.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by liminal_luke

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, sagebrush said:

yes I need to learn to use quotes better. I will get right on that.

 

I have to take a little practice charm talisman over to my PPD. Please take a look

 

 

 

 

 

Your PPD   ?

 

That selection of  untitled posts  with no subject matter and no content because you edited it all away ?

 

No thanks .