Shad282

Indifference: How do you live without desires?

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Hey, lately been feeling indifferent to everything in life. I have been working for a long time on solving my shadows/problems of course they will never end but I reached a state where I kind of feel I lost desires to many things in life. I mean tho things look interesting like tech, other subjects and forms, but I don't feel like this inner WOWness or want to have it and such. Life is more like fine not much excitement, I don't feel happy but not sad, more indifferent, like I m here what's next?

 

I also feel sometimes, that I have let go so much of what made me who I am, what made things exciting and now stuck in a void like kind of 70% identity-less, maybe just a feeling.

 

How to move forward? what keeps you moving forward?

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2 minutes ago, Shad282 said:

Hey, lately been feeling indifferent to everything in life. I have been working for a long time on solving my shadows/problems of course they will never end but I reached a state where I kind of feel I lost desires to many things in life. I mean tho things look interesting like tech, other subjects and forms, but I don't feel like this inner WOWness or want to have it and such. Life is more like fine not much excitement, I don't feel happy but not sad, more indifferent, like I m here what's next?

 

I also feel sometimes, that I have let go so much of what made me who I am, what made things exciting and now stuck in a void like kind of 70% identity-less, maybe just a feeling.

 

How to move forward? what keeps you moving forward?

 

Having been someone that spends a great deal of my time contemplating and practicing detachment I thought I'd take a stab at this.

 

So first of all what you are dealing with sounds like depression. Depression is not the same thing as detachment, it is not the same thing as having no desires in the ultimate sense and this is why. If one truly lets go of something they are at peace, but the fact that this indifference seems to bother you, or at the very least you want "the next thing" shows that there actually still is desire, a desire to not feel how you are feeling now. 

 

What you seem to be lacking is not desire, but direction. You want, but you don't know what you want. A tough place to be in for sure. If you had no desire in the ultimate sense you would be totally content feeling this way, for what would there be to want something other than what you feel now? 

 

That being said I would venture to say what you need to find is what it is that you actually do want. One thing seems for certain. You seem to have outgrown whatever it is that you used to like and desire, but have as of yet not found what it is that you do want. This is something that no one else can answer other than yourself. Hopefully realizing what the problem isn't may help you to understand what the problem actually is and hopefully that will help you to find the answer that you are looking for. 

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6 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

Having been someone that spends a great deal of my time contemplating and practicing detachment I thought I'd take a stab at this.

 

So first of all what you are dealing with sounds like depression. Depression is not the same thing as detachment, it is not the same thing as having no desires in the ultimate sense and this is why. If one truly lets go of something they are at peace, but the fact that this indifference seems to bother you, or at the very least you want "the next thing" shows that there actually still is desire, a desire to not feel how you are feeling now. 

 

What you seem to be lacking is not desire, but direction. You want, but you don't know what you want. A tough place to be in for sure. If you had no desire in the ultimate sense you would be totally content feeling this way, for what would there be to want something other than what you feel now? 

 

That being said I would venture to say what you need to find is what it is that you actually do want. One thing seems for certain. You seem to have outgrown whatever it is that you used to like and desire, but have as of yet not found what it is that you do want. This is something that no one else can answer other than yourself. Hopefully realizing what the problem isn't may help you to understand what the problem actually is and hopefully that will help you to find the answer that you are looking for. 

 

I agree with what you said, what i m looking for is direction, but I m not sure if it is going to be through a want/desire/need.

I need something to motivate me forward something more than the stuff that are eternal, like products or sensations...  something that is really meaningful that sets direction? but why do I need something? can't i just flow without a direction?

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24 minutes ago, Shad282 said:

 

I agree with what you said, what i m looking for is direction, but I m not sure if it is going to be through a want/desire/need.

I need something to motivate me forward something more than the stuff that are eternal, like products or sensations...  something that is really meaningful that sets direction? but why do I need something? can't i just flow without a direction?

 

Very good, you have the right idea. 

 

In the ultimate sense what you are getting at is exactly what the Buddha said in his four noble truths. 

 

1. There is suffering

2. It is caused by desire, which is caused by ignorance

3. It is possible to end this suffering 

4. There is an eight-fold path to end suffering ....

 

So yes the idea is to not need, desire, or want products or sensations in order to be content, BUT we also need to realize where we currently are realistically in the present moment. That being said if you realize what you seem to realize and want something to motivate you forward then perhaps you could consider making letting go of wanting, being the thing you want. Letting go of desire as the thing you desire. Letting go of motivation as your motivation. 

 

Here's the tricky part, how do you let go of something by grasping it? You can't at least not directly, so what is one to do? This is where the fourth noble truth comes in, the eight-fold path.

 

1. Right View

2. Right Intention

3. Right Speech

4. Right Action

5. Right Livelihood 

6. Right Effort

7. Right Mindfulness

8. Right Concentration

 

Edited by dmattwads
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Hi Shad282,

 

This thread reminds me very much of a similar thread you started some time back.  Do you know the one I mean?  Some Bums -- I think I was one of them -- speculated that you might be depressed.  Spotless, if I remember correctly, said what you were going through was not depression but awakening.  I mention this in case that old thread and the responses in it might have resonance for you now.

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Hi Shad, 

 

Who have you let go of? That which you let go of, was that you at all? 
 

All that’s happening is you’ve lost the impetus to act and react in a certain way, because those things you “gave up” are familiar. If you look deeper, you’ll see that “you” are unaffected by it — only your mind trying to hold on to the ghost of a memory.  

Edited by dwai
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9 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Hi Shad282,

 

This thread reminds me very much of a similar thread you started some time back.  Do you know the one I mean?  Some Bums -- I think I was one of them -- speculated that you might be depressed.  Spotless, if I remember correctly, said what you were going through was not depression but awakening.  I mention this in case that old thread and the responses in it might have resonance for you now.

 

Yes, forgot that I have posted similar topic 2 years ago. I m not sure if it is depression or this situation is leading to a depression while in itself is not? Like for example even at work, I find myself having interest in many things but also in nothing, and I can excel and do amazing stuff in most of fields, but yet this is not what i want, especially when it becomes fixed. I have changed many departments in 3 years and all departments want me to work with them, but yet I feel myself everywhere but also nowhere.

 

I feel sometimes that the issue might be between shifting the perspective between micro and macro level. for example, on a micro level, I do love people and their issues, Animals, and feel compassion and want to help, but when i think in a macro level as a whole, spiritual wise, like energy and oneness and all, the micro level become kind of pointless and useless... like rather than feeling compassion toward someone suffering, I feel like, why taking it seriously, it is just a reality without any real purpose, it is like a game, you are just believing it is real, if you die or suffer it does not really matter.

 

it is like the micro level render this reality exciting, while the macro renders it useless like void/nothingness/kind of nihilism. I m not sure if this a kind of consciousness fragmentation between myself before awakening and after, and struggle to find harmony between these two and maybe this conflict is causing indifference that's causing depression.

 

 

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In a previous post you said you meditate.

 

Can I ask why do you meditate and what is the end game goal you are hoping to achieve by undertaking this spiritual practice?

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13 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

In a previous post you said you meditate.

 

Can I ask why do you meditate and what is the end game goal you are hoping to achieve by undertaking this spiritual practice?

well it started when i was young around 10 yo, when my friend drew the shabda brahman symbol on sand, and i started learning more about it, and psi energy balls, and i worked on abilities to heal and i have my hands vibrating at time... then I learned more about spirituality and landed on meditation, which mostly was around vipassana, and scanning the body, and enhancing awareness focus and i felt a lot better and reached a high peak one time where everything around me felt so vibrating and food tasted so good, but got shot down by friends and family for being crazy. then got back but not as that high peak.

 

I meditate now to refine my focus and wake up from losing myself in the micro level of life, kind of like stabilize and restore harmony, especially that where i live it is a huge struggle every day.

 

I do wish to get back to that high peak i reached once, but no attachment to it anyways. but it is nice to live without worry and trust life and be at peace regardless of anything.

Edited by Shad282

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My response is biased because it's the path I'm on...

 

But meditation on its own often leads to this state you're describing. It's a common occurrence.

 

From my perspective what's 'missing' is Qi.

 

The Daoist approach focuses on finding the form within the formless (and the formless within the form).

 

From that perspective, you're simply stuck in the formless - a very 'yin' state - and you can't find the form... which is the yang spark (or light) of your original spirit.

 

Qi is the catalyst between form and formless - it's the intermediary between your physical existence and your spirit. From my perspective - this is the missing ingredient for you.

 

Daoist Qigong, Neigong and Neidan are the processes by which you generate Qi and use it to create transformation... leading to enlightenment and further...

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1 hour ago, Shad282 said:

well it started when i was young around 10 yo, when my friend drew the shabda brahman symbol on sand, and i started learning more about it, and psi energy balls, and i worked on abilities to heal and i have my hands vibrating at time... then I learned more about spirituality and landed on meditation, which mostly was around vipassana, and scanning the body, and enhancing awareness focus and i felt a lot better and reached a high peak one time where everything around me felt so vibrating and food tasted so good, but got shot down by friends and family for being crazy. then got back but not as that high peak.

 

I meditate now to refine my focus and wake up from losing myself in the micro level of life, kind of like stabilize and restore harmony, especially that where i live it is a huge struggle every day.

 

I do wish to get back to that high peak i reached once, but no attachment to it anyways. but it is nice to live without worry and trust life and be at peace regardless of anything.

 

You might want to consider taking a break from meditation. If you look at the eightfold path number eight, concentration is meditation. It's generally the last step on the path and if one skips steps they tend to have problems.

 

Westerners have a tendency to want to start at the end.

Edited by dmattwads
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If all the great works of art were dependent on the artists being fully functional before they could 'flow and create' there'd be very little masterpieces for the world to marvel at. A lot of these artists are really screwed up, dysfunctional & neurotic - therein lies their greatest, most brilliant inspirations. The thing that sets them apart, really, is simply that they do not confuse dysfunction with finding meaning. Very often, their creative juices peak at the height of utter meaninglessness. Nevertheless, most of these artists, and many really talented performers as well, they don't hang around for too long - they burn bright but the brightness consumes them, like shooting stars. They were unable to turn that brilliance within. Spiritually, they were not able to glow from the inside out. They knew, from the 'trips' they often took, that there's something infinitely more profound and permanent waiting to be discovered and integrated that will lift them up out of the shadows, but they were afraid of the light. In the shadows, they found comfort in familiarity. 

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On 12.12.2020 at 1:30 AM, Shad282 said:

Hey, lately been feeling indifferent to everything in life. I have been working for a long time on solving my shadows/problems of course they will never end but I reached a state where I kind of feel I lost desires to many things in life. I mean tho things look interesting like tech, other subjects and forms, but I don't feel like this inner WOWness or want to have it and such. Life is more like fine not much excitement, I don't feel happy but not sad, more indifferent, like I m here what's next?

 

I also feel sometimes, that I have let go so much of what made me who I am, what made things exciting and now stuck in a void like kind of 70% identity-less, maybe just a feeling.

 

How to move forward? what keeps you moving forward?

 

Hi Shady

 

Short answer: My inner visions.

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On 12/12/2020 at 6:10 AM, Shad282 said:

well it started when i was young around 10 yo, when my friend drew the shabda brahman symbol on sand, and i started learning more about it, and psi energy balls, and i worked on abilities to heal and i have my hands vibrating at time... then I learned more about spirituality and landed on meditation, which mostly was around vipassana, and scanning the body, and enhancing awareness focus and i felt a lot better and reached a high peak one time where everything around me felt so vibrating and food tasted so good, but got shot down by friends and family for being crazy. then got back but not as that high peak.

 

I meditate now to refine my focus and wake up from losing myself in the micro level of life, kind of like stabilize and restore harmony, especially that where i live it is a huge struggle every day.

 

I do wish to get back to that high peak i reached once, but no attachment to it anyways. but it is nice to live without worry and trust life and be at peace regardless of anything.

 

I've found at times when I get "stuck" that doing the Manjushri mantra even just a little bit helps.

 

Usually at first after doing it I feel even more confused, but I think that's due to you have to unlearn what you think you know in order to be teachable.

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