Am I who you think I am?

[Earl Grey]

Musical interlude:

 

 

I'm whatever you say I am!

 

[Iskote]

32 minutes ago, steve said:

 

I share your perspective on this.

The tricky thing is how to know whose perspective is accurate? Each of us essentially creates our own reality.

 

 

We can only perceive things the way we perceive things at any point in time. We can of course review and question our perceptions, but in the interests of practicality we can't be continually examining and questioning our perceptions or we risk becoming quite dysfunctional in our daily life. On the other hand, if a person is frequently getting negative feedback from a variety of different people in regards to their actions in some particular area of their interactions with others, then it would probably be a good idea for that person to take a closer look at their actions and think about whether they may possibly need some improvement, or at least consider if a new approach might bring better results, in that particular area. Dealing with other people is not always easy at all, but it does provide a person with feedback which can be useful in improving our self overall and helping us to re-examine our assumptions and beliefs.  

 

[Limahong]

24 minutes ago, Iskote said:

We can only perceive things the way we perceive things at any point in time. We can of course review and question our perceptions, but in the interests of practicality we can't be continually examining and questioning our perceptions or we risk becoming quite dysfunctional in our daily life.

 

... so I cannot keep on thinking who you are?

 

 

[moment]

1 hour ago, Limahong said:

 

... so I cannot keep on thinking who you are?

 

 

 

So---- I think, so therefore you are?

Edited August 26, 2020 by moment

[manitou]

1 hour ago, Iskote said:

 

On the other hand, if a person is frequently getting negative feedback from a variety of different people in regards to their actions in some particular area of their interactions with others, then it would probably be a good idea for that person to take a closer look at their actions and think about whether they may possibly need some improvement, or at least consider if a new approach might bring better results, in that particular area. Dealing with other people is not always easy at all, but it does provide a person with feedback which can be useful in improving our self overall and helping us to re-examine our assumptions and beliefs.  

 

 

 

I've heard it said that if you meet more than 2 a-holes in a day, it's probably You.

[liminal_luke]

On 26/8/2020 at 11:12 AM, Earl Grey said:

 

I'm whatever you say I am!

 

 

Somehow I doubt that.

[Limahong]

4 hours ago, moment said:

So---- I think, so therefore you are?

 

3 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Somehow I doubt that.

 

Every-body is a no-body... my-self included.

 

 

 

PERIOD.

 

[moment]

35 minutes ago, Limahong said:

 

 

Every-body is a no-body... my-self included.

 

 

 

PERIOD.

 

 

I understand what you are saying, ( and on a higher level that MAY be true) but, in this reality, I have never thought of you as a nobody and you are special.

Edited August 26, 2020 by moment

[Cleansox]

4 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

 

Every-body is a no-body... my-self included.

 

 

 

PERIOD.

 

At least you have a body. 

[Kubba]

On 8/27/2020 at 1:08 AM, Limahong said:

 

 

Every-body is a no-body... my-self included.

 

 

 

PERIOD.

 

 

Limahong,

If you are nobody then who is your neighbour then? I trust you don’t have experience of your neighbour, but yours, so you must be you and your neighbour must be your neighbour, meaning you are quite a lot of somebody 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Kubba

[Limahong]

32 minutes ago, Kubba said:

If you are nobody then who is your neighbour then? I trust you don’t have experience of your neighbour, but yours, so you must be you and not your neighbour must be your neighbour, meaning you are quite a lot of somebody

 

Hi Kubba,

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

When 'every-body' is a 'no-body' ~ the reverse is 'no-body' can be 'every-body'.

 

When I think light has no color ~ it is actually a continuum of seven.

 

 

So can 'no-body' and 'every-body' be thought of as a continuum like the rainbow...?

 

 

If so ~ within the continuum lies 'some-body'?

 

For that matter ~ there is also 'any-body'?

 

Please revert.

 

- Anand

 

[Limahong]

14 hours ago, Cleansox said:

At least you have a body. 

 

Yes ~ but I am some-body's fool...

 

 

 

[steve]

On 8/26/2020 at 12:36 AM, Zork said:

Curiosity for the illusionary world is a dire form of clinging that will keep you rebirthing here for hundreds if not thousands of times. So you can disagree as much as you want, the thing is, you aren't going anywhere with this mindset.

This is valid on the sutric path of renunciation. Not so much in dzogchen where everything in your experience is taken as the path.

 

On 8/26/2020 at 12:56 AM, Zork said:

What is your ultimate goal then?

Achieving non-duality and realising the world is illusory is a goal for buddhist so as to eventually free themselves from rebirth. Yours may differ. Since Steve is a supposed buddhist i assume that he actively tries to achieve it.

Non-duality encompasses everything, nothing is refused or vilified. No way to liberate from rebirth without integration of everything, especially the mundane.  I follow Bön actually but quite similar to Buddhism.

 

On 8/26/2020 at 2:54 AM, Zork said:

It isn't useful. Give us an example of someone doing that and reaching enlightenment.

Compassion is a different thing than trying to be in someone else's shoes.

I’d like to see an example of someone who was enlightened without doing exactly that. A direct experience of the non-dual, Bodhicitta, is being in all shoes.

[liminal_luke]

22 hours ago, steve said:

being in all shoes.

 

I think the above would be a great title for a Netflix series on Bon.

[silent thunder]

Regarding judgements...I've always adhered to the old adage...

"Don't judge someone til you've walked a mile in their shoes..."

 

Because that way,

when you judge them,

you're a mile away...

 

and you have their shoes.

Edited August 28, 2020 by silent thunder
me fucky fucky wrong spelt werd

[Kubba]

14 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Kubba,

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

When 'every-body' is a 'no-body' ~ the reverse is 'no-body' can be 'every-body'.

 

When I think light has no color ~ it is actually a continuum of seven.

 

 

So can 'no-body' and 'every-body' be thought of as a continuum like the rainbow...?

 

 

If so ~ within the continuum lies 'some-body'?

 

For that matter ~ there is also 'any-body'?

 

Please revert.

 

- Anand

 

 

Hello Anand,

Interresting thoughts, there is an assumption in this reasoning that the individual is a thought, how can we prove it? In Ayurveda for example there is a concept of ahamkara - a principle of individuation, that makes every of us different, and allows us to defend ourselves, our soverinity. Individuality from this perspective is far from nothing is all I’m saying. Yes, in a deep sleep there are no thoughts, no activities of senses, therefore we do not exist in a deep sleep and then we recreate ourselves when waking up into our character, and we recreate entire world.

 

There is also known phenomena among spiritual folks- so called depersonalisation, a state where noone wants to end up in, where you are indeed noone, and can’t tell your hand from your head, can’t take care of yourself since you are noone. In India those people are called Masts- they eat and deffecate in the same place, it happends all over the world and those individuals need help in order to come back from being nobody into being somebody.

 

so indeed, true to that, there is all pervading nothingness, nobodyness, one consciousness but true is also that there are individuals, and they need healthy individuality in order to function, some of them do not live in thought based identity. Individuality is created for a reason by the nature and it has to be honoured.

 

yes, there are those notions in spirituality that you need to become nobody, those are slogans, often voiced irresponsibly by halfbaked teachers, that don’t have entire picture yet.

 

With Love,

Ganapati

Edited August 28, 2020 by Kubba

[Limahong]

55 minutes ago, Kubba said:

Interesting thoughts, there is an assumption in this reasoning that the individual is a thought, how can we prove it? In Ayurveda for example there is a concept of ahamkara - a principle of individuation, that makes every of us different, and allows us to defend ourselves, our sovereignty. 

 

Hi Ganapati,

 

My Guru-ji is from India and I am sure that he will embrace your every word better than myself. But I can follow forward on individuation... it is important for me to know/understand/love/improve... myself as an individual... continuously.

 

1 hour ago, Kubba said:

Individuality from this perspective is far from nothing is all I’m saying. Yes, in a deep sleep there are no thoughts, no activities of senses, therefore we do not exist in a deep sleep and then we recreate ourselves when waking up into our character, and we recreate entire world.

 

On an absolute scale ~ I know that I am far from nothing. But on a relative scale (such as relative to most Bums at TDB) I may be a nobody... and I am not disturbed thus.

 

Upon waking up every morning ~ I can feel my energy to take on life anew.

 

1 hour ago, Kubba said:

There is also known phenomena among spiritual folks- so called depersonalisation, a state where noone wants to end up in, where you are indeed noone, and can’t tell your hand from your head, can’t take care of yourself since you are noone. In India those people are called Masts- they eat and defecate in the same place, it happens all over the world and those individuals need help in order to come back from being nobody into being somebody.

 

As shared previously ~ 'no-body' is not a standalone notion. It stands shoulder-to-shoulder with 'every-body', 'some-body' and 'any-body'... even re my-self.

 

1 hour ago, Kubba said:

so indeed, true to that, there is all pervading nothingness, nobodyness, one consciousness but true is also that there are individuals, and they need healthy individuality in order to function, some of them do not live in thought based identity. Individuality is created for a reason by the nature and it has to be honoured.

 

Nothingness/nobodyness/... are not 'no-ism' per sec.

 

Emptiness is not empty per sec... feel it...

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Kubba said:

yes, there are those notions in spirituality that you need to become nobody, those are slogans, often voiced irresponsibly by half-baked teachers, that don’t have entire picture yet

 

If I am to tell Guru-ji that he is half-baked ~ I am certain that he will laugh at his naughty child and not cook him 100% in boiling water. Why? I know he 🧡 me.

 

1 hour ago, Kubba said:

With Love...

 

It is the first time that someone has sent me 💚at TDB. Thank you.

 

I would like to share it with no-/some-/any-/every-body at TDB thus ~

 

 

A great weekend.

 

- Anand

 

[Kubba]

12 hours ago, Limahong said:

 

Hi Ganapati,

 

My Guru-ji is from India and I am sure that he will embrace your every word better than myself. But I can follow forward on individuation... it is important for me to know/understand/love/improve... myself as an individual... continuously.

 

 

On an absolute scale ~ I know that I am far from nothing. But on a relative scale (such as relative to most Bums at TDB) I may be a nobody... and I am not disturbed thus.

 

Upon waking up every morning ~ I can feel my energy to take on life anew.

 

 

As shared previously ~ 'no-body' is not a standalone notion. It stands shoulder-to-shoulder with 'every-body', 'some-body' and 'any-body'... even re my-self.

 

 

Nothingness/nobodyness/... are not 'no-ism' per sec.

 

Emptiness is not empty per sec... feel it...

 

 

 

 

If I am to tell Guru-ji that he is half-baked ~ I am certain that he will laugh at his naughty child and not cook him 100% in boiling water. Why? I know he 🧡 me.

 

 

It is the first time that someone has sent me 💚at TDB. Thank you.

 

I would like to share it with no-/some-/any-/every-body at TDB thus ~

 

 

A great weekend.

 

- Anand

 

Good evening Anand (at least it is evening here),

Great to hear all this and observe the carefully chosen visualisations, it is not that I'm arguing here seriously, nor without it, but for sure not tried to offend your teacher. Send my humble regards to your Guruji - all the glory to one and the only, Jai Guru Dev! He for sure passed on/ enkindled in you this joyful spark that palpably shines from your writing, is probably why he gave you such name (just guessing he gave it to you).

Sat-Chit-Ananda, Being-Consciousness-Bliss

 

Thank you back, lets have some tea instead,
Ganapati

 

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Kubba
tea time

[Limahong]

1 hour ago, Kubba said:

Thank you back, let's have some tea instead...

 

Why not... ?

 

 

 

[manitou]

On 8/28/2020 at 2:48 AM, Limahong said:

My Guru-ji is from India and I am sure that he will embrace your every word better than myself. But I can follow forward on individuation... it is important for me to know/understand/love/improve... myself as an individual... continuously.

 

 

 

I see us all as the same divine spirit.  My take is that the more we go in to find our tangles, the less distinctive our personalities become.  Our likes and dislikes become not as important, we cease wanting to 'be somebody' - at least not in the ego sense.  We are the divine presence.  If nothing else, we are like tent poles holding up the canvas of truth.  We needn't prove to anyone, or to ourselves, our knowledge (more accurately, 'gnowledge').  We become the knowledge.

 

The personality loss is a strange thing.  It's a loss of conditioning, and the reactions to conditioning.  The person speaks clearly, anchored in truth.  The little physical compensations, like facial expressions, actions, words ----those leave the Master and he is solid, straight.  He no longer acts in reaction to everything.  He just knows.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2020 by manitou
Just tweaking it so it'll make sense. Also because I love Limmers