Ecclectica

Energy rich guy seeking advice on choosing a method

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Hi, I'm new here

 

I am seeking advice on selecting a method of practice.

 

I have been practicing Buddhist meditation quite seriously for a few years and have lots of internal energy. (I have spent a total of 9 months in 15 meditation retreats)

 

My internal energy has manifested in many ways including a period of three months where my body moved involuntarily every sit for 3 months (this largely ceased as a problem a couple of years ago), odd bodily sensations, feeling intensely cold and being unable to warm, intense sexual urges, orgasmic sensations while meditating, inability to sleep or stay asleep and and getting small burns on my skin while meditating (I know that one is a bit hard to believe) and other stuff at various times.

 

I have recently been doing some Shikantaza type just sitting. This often produces a period of spontaneous Qigong followed by some pleasant energetic sensations then much calmness and clarity. 

 

My question is what type of Qigong or Tai Chi should I choose?

 

I don't need to get more energy I seem to have too much already just need to continue to unblock my chakras etc - or sat least  that's my guess.

 

Is a formal method recommended or can I just work on the spontaneous Qigong and if so how would I go about that?

 

NB The spontaneous Qigong seems quite mild, controlled and brief compared to the somewhat wild extravagant movements I experienced a couple of years ago which went on for the duration of each sit.

 

I note there is teacher near me (Sydney) by the name of Simon Blow who teaches Qigong including Shibashi and Wild Goose  - he is apparently a lineage holder of the latter.

 

Anyway any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Apologies if I'm using wrong terminologies or spellings or making false assumptions - I don't know much about this stuff.

 

Cheers

 

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Welcome @Ecclectica  👋 -- enjoyed reading your story. Inspiring volume of retreat time you've clocked. I've done a handful of 10 day and several 3-5 day retreats. Transformative work. Would like to do a 30-day at forest refuge in Barre when I find the time and courage.

 

Anyway, I'm sure others will chime in with qigong advice.

 

Sean

 

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On 11/1/2019 at 10:37 AM, Ecclectica said:

 

I note there is teacher near me (Sydney) by the name of Simon Blow who teaches Qigong including Shibashi and Wild Goose  - he is apparently a lineage holder of the latter.

 

Glad to have you here. 

Close is good.  Take a look at Mr. Blow's classes.  I've heard good things about Wild Goose.  Talk to some of his senior students, see how they carry themselves and what they like about the classes.  Cause they are what you're most likely to become. 

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Seek some comprehensive advice from the teacher you mentioned - explain in detail what you have experienced but make sure to include what practices you have engaged in while "meditating".  How you breath, where your awareness is centered.

 

Many engaged in "meditation" are not meditating - they are actively engaged in "a sitting practice" - doing.

 

Breath always into your lower dan tien - this will help to mediate the energies and overloads. 

 

Fasting would be recommended and stopping all active Doing practice until you receive clear guidance. 

 

Yoga Asana's would be helpful to relax the energies into and throughout all the nadis.

 

Currently it would be wise to be less active and more exercising the passive until you speak to the teacher you mentioned.

 

Caution is needed - (not fear) - in that you are experiencing kundalini symptoms and your bodies are trying to catch up to the energies that have built up quickly.  This is something to take seriously - we have had several members that have participated in these forums from psychiatric facilities who experienced many of the things you have mentioned prior to becoming members of those facilities.

 

The long form asanas will be helpful.

 

Qi Gong only if your instructor fully knows your entire present situation and what habits you may have that would be decisively ill advised. Breathing habits and practices are among the most serious threats to energy deviations.

 

 

Edited by Spotless
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On 11/1/2019 at 8:37 AM, Ecclectica said:

Hi, I'm new here

 

I am seeking advice on selecting a method of practice.

 

I have been practicing Buddhist meditation quite seriously for a few years and have lots of internal energy. (I have spent a total of 9 months in 15 meditation retreats)

 

My internal energy has manifested in many ways including a period of three months where my body moved involuntarily every sit for 3 months (this largely ceased as a problem a couple of years ago), odd bodily sensations, feeling intensely cold and being unable to warm, intense sexual urges, orgasmic sensations while meditating, inability to sleep or stay asleep and and getting small burns on my skin while meditating (I know that one is a bit hard to believe) and other stuff at various times.

 

I have recently been doing some Shikantaza type just sitting. This often produces a period of spontaneous Qigong followed by some pleasant energetic sensations then much calmness and clarity. 

 

My question is what type of Qigong or Tai Chi should I choose?

 

I don't need to get more energy I seem to have too much already just need to continue to unblock my chakras etc - or sat least  that's my guess.

 

Is a formal method recommended or can I just work on the spontaneous Qigong and if so how would I go about that?

 

NB The spontaneous Qigong seems quite mild, controlled and brief compared to the somewhat wild extravagant movements I experienced a couple of years ago which went on for the duration of each sit.

 

I note there is teacher near me (Sydney) by the name of Simon Blow who teaches Qigong including Shibashi and Wild Goose  - he is apparently a lineage holder of the latter.

 

Anyway any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Apologies if I'm using wrong terminologies or spellings or making false assumptions - I don't know much about this stuff.

 

Cheers

 

Welcome! There are good people here. You can't go wrong with plenty of rest (even if you cannot sleep), eating whole foods (especially alkaline producing foods and herbs), and spending quality time outdoors to ground and restore balance to your system. Seek assistance from a close-by spiritual healer to help restore balance. Cultivating bonds with plants and animals is very helpful.  Walking around in circles barefoot with arms outstretched (if weather permits) on a fresh mowed lawn at sunset( try to feel every individual blade of grass). Cut back on all of your meditation and breathing practices until qualified support says otherwise.  An Acupuncturist or TCM practioner with Kundalini experience can be helpful.

It has been my personal experience with Kundalini, that intuition noticeably increases, if you learn to relax with it, and that intuition is a very powerful guide. Have faith, Worry less.

Edited by moment
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On 01/11/2019 at 3:37 PM, Ecclectica said:

teacher

I studied Simon Blow and Wild Goose for a year, going through the material of several teachers; but I do not consider him a good teacher he has a Western/ mental approach which does not reflect Wild Goose, also he seems to be in poor physical condition compared to other Wild Goose teachers.  The best teachers I found were Shane Lear in the US, and a Chinese woman called Hui Liu I believe in Canada. 

 

However I do not believe WG or any such traditions are for you, and that you should seek a Qigong that will flow with your Buddhist path and your natural adeptness, WG and such things are for people who have no energy gifts and need to recover from sickness.

 

Shikantaza has a large energetic component.  What you can add to your practice to turn on the energetic work is to rest inside the belly and gently fall with the exhale.  First resting down from the belly, sitting down from the belly, and ultimately flowing down from the belly.  In order to do this you must change your practice point to be in the centre of the belly.  This does not mean that you focus from your head to the belly, it means you are no longer inside your head.  You must begin this practice from being inside the belly.

I say this because Buddhist practices are often head based.

Eventually if you fall from the belly it descends the Central Channel and eventually the head follows creating and downward current into the source or the base of the ShivaLingam.

And you need no  further instruction.

 

If you wish something more you can do Zhan Zhuang with a teacher who teachers surrender like Mark Cohen.

Other teachers teach toughing it out to build qi - which is not good imo.

And there is also Hakuyu Butter Meditation.

https://buddhismnow.com/2015/09/12/zen-sickness-by-zen-master-hakuin/

 

Also if you are adept at meditation and energetic work, you could also add other avenues to your growth including relationships with women and other skills in the world.

 

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Welcome Ecclectica... and empathy mate.

 

I will echo the words of moment and Spotless, both of whom, put my thoughts to words more effectively than I likely could have; both are steeped in many years (decades) of grounded practice and experience, combined with keen insight and inspiringly warm, open hearts. 

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On 11/1/2019 at 11:37 AM, Ecclectica said:

Hi, I'm new here

 

I am seeking advice on selecting a method of practice.

 

I have been practicing Buddhist meditation quite seriously for a few years and have lots of internal energy. (I have spent a total of 9 months in 15 meditation retreats)

 

My internal energy has manifested in many ways including a period of three months where my body moved involuntarily every sit for 3 months (this largely ceased as a problem a couple of years ago), odd bodily sensations, feeling intensely cold and being unable to warm, intense sexual urges, orgasmic sensations while meditating, inability to sleep or stay asleep and and getting small burns on my skin while meditating (I know that one is a bit hard to believe) and other stuff at various times.

 

I have recently been doing some Shikantaza type just sitting. This often produces a period of spontaneous Qigong followed by some pleasant energetic sensations then much calmness and clarity. 

 

My question is what type of Qigong or Tai Chi should I choose?

 

I don't need to get more energy I seem to have too much already just need to continue to unblock my chakras etc - or sat least  that's my guess.

 

Is a formal method recommended or can I just work on the spontaneous Qigong and if so how would I go about that?

 

NB The spontaneous Qigong seems quite mild, controlled and brief compared to the somewhat wild extravagant movements I experienced a couple of years ago which went on for the duration of each sit.

 

I note there is teacher near me (Sydney) by the name of Simon Blow who teaches Qigong including Shibashi and Wild Goose  - he is apparently a lineage holder of the latter.

 

Anyway any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Apologies if I'm using wrong terminologies or spellings or making false assumptions - I don't know much about this stuff.

 

Cheers

 

 

I am seeking advice on selecting a method of practice.

 

My question is what type of Qigong or Tai Chi should I choose?

 

Anyway any advice would be much appreciated.

 

 

 

Here is some advice.

 

There are millions of practices and teachers out there.

 

Very few do anything more than placebo.

 

Just because a teacher sells lots of videos, books, seminars and has a huge following of students doesn't mean what they teach actually does anything, it just means they are good at marketing.

 

If you want something real it is best to demand good evidence that the practice actually does something, the personal testimony of thousands of people is not good enough.

 

Hundreds of thousands of people believe that magnetic and copper bracelets help their arthritis pain, when studies have conclusively shown they have no more effect than a placebo.

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"How long has your guru been teaching?"

 

"Well, uh, over thirty years."

 

"And how many of his students have achieved enlightenment?"

 

"Well, uh..."

 

"That you know of personally?"

 

"Well, uh, I never..."

 

"That you've heard of?"

 

"It's not"

 

"That there were rumors of?"

 

"I don't think..."

 

"What is it they're doing, Martin? The recipe for enlightenment they're promoting - what is it?"

 

"Uh, well, meditation and knowledge, basically."

 

"And in thirty years they've never held someone up and said, 'Look at this guy! He's enlightened and we got him there!' In thirty years, they don't have one? Don't you think they should have, like, an entire army of enlightened guys to show off by now?"

 

"Well, it's not..."

 

"After thirty years they should have a few dozen generations of enlightened people. Even with only a quarter of them becoming teachers, they should have flooded the world by now, mathematically speaking, don't you think? I'm not asking all this as a teacher myself, mind you. I'm just asking as a consumer, or a consumer's advocate. Don't you think it's reasonable to ask to know a teacher's success rate? The proof is in the pudding, right? Didn't you ask them about the fruit of their teachings when you started with them?"

 

"Well, that's not..."

 

"Don't you think it's reasonable to ask? They're in the enlightenment business, aren't they? Or did I misunderstand you? Do they have something else going?"

 

"Nooo, but they..."

 

"If Consumer Reports magazine did a report on which spiritual organizations delivered as promised, don't you suppose that the first statistic listed under each organization would be success rating? Like, here are a hundred randomly selected people who started with the organization five years ago and here's where they are today. For instance, thirty-one have moved up in the organization, twenty-seven have moved on, thirty-nine are still with it but not deeply committed and three have entered abiding non-dual awareness. Okay, three percent - that's a number you can compare. But this organization of yours would have big fat goose egg, wouldn't they? And not just out of a hundred, but out of hundreds of thousands - millions, probably. Am I wrong?

 

- Jed McKenna - 'Spiritual Enlightenment:The Damnedest Thing'

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That's one of Jeds favorite tricks, I saw him perform it on a youtube.  He reminds me of an insecure martial artist who picks a girl out of the audience, one way smaller then him and demonstrates his 'abilities' on them.  He intentionally picks inexperienced people so he could tear them apart verbally infront of an audience to prove his ?? ego.  It's a skit he's perfected and it relies on choosing inexperienced people from the audience. 

 

A real master or senior student could answer calmly with good answers and would undoubtedly ask him the same questions and let him humm and haw.  Silly ego game.  A teacher wouldn't allow the rude interruptions and could lecture for hours about the benefits of their art.  Which is why its so important for him to pick someone he could fluster and who'd defer to his authority and not question him back. 

 

This stuff we do, is about getting better, living better.. Enlightenment, whatever that is, might be the very top but its the trip, the learning and the people along the way.   Cause even after enlightenment its still chop wood, carry water. 

Edited by thelerner
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An enlightened mind is a kind mind.  It's not a cynical mind.

 

 

 

 

Edited by manitou
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Quit the fucking WMP recruitment drive!!!! 

Edited by Earl Grey

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On 11/1/2019 at 5:37 PM, Ecclectica said:

My internal energy has manifested in many ways including a period of three months where my body moved involuntarily every sit for 3 months (this largely ceased as a problem a couple of years ago), odd bodily sensations, feeling intensely cold and being unable to warm, intense sexual urges, orgasmic sensations while meditating, inability to sleep or stay asleep and and getting small burns on my skin while meditating (I know that one is a bit hard to believe) and other stuff at various times.

https://ymaa.com/articles/common-qigong-phenomena#sthash.ryu6bUuQ.dpuf

 

Notice the "common" descriptor.

On 11/1/2019 at 5:37 PM, Ecclectica said:

My question is what type of Qigong or Tai Chi should I choose?

There are 3 major types of qigong.

Martial

Health

Spiritual

 

Which one are you interested in?

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1 minute ago, Zork said:

https://ymaa.com/articles/common-qigong-phenomena#sthash.ryu6bUuQ.dpuf

 

Notice the "common" descriptor.

There are 3 major types of qigong.

Martial

Health

Spiritual

 

Which one are you interested in?


Also of note is that they aren’t necessarily all mutually exclusive. Some styles can offer all three at once.

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Just now, Earl Grey said:


Also of note is that they aren’t necessarily all mutually exclusive. Some styles can offer all three at once.

Sure, but what happens if he isn't interested in martial or he already practices a health system? :)

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1 minute ago, Zork said:

Sure, but what happens if he isn't interested in martial or he already practices a health system? :)


Remember some people do Tai Chi for health but don’t ever get to martial application. ;)

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Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond and making me welcome.

 

In response I wiil try to be concise -  I hope I don't appear rude:

 

 

On 03/11/2019 at 7:13 AM, Spotless said:

Seek some comprehensive advice from the teacher you mentioned - explain in detail what you have experienced but make sure to include what practices you have engaged in while "meditating".  How you breath, where your awareness is centered.

 

Many engaged in "meditation" are not meditating - they are actively engaged in "a sitting practice" - doing.

 

Breath always into your lower dan tien - this will help to mediate the energies and overloads. 

 

Fasting would be recommended and stopping all active Doing practice until you receive clear guidance. 

 

Yoga Asana's would be helpful to relax the energies into and throughout all the nadis.

 

Currently it would be wise to be less active and more exercising the passive until you speak to the teacher you mentioned.

 

Caution is needed - (not fear) - in that you are experiencing kundalini symptoms and your bodies are trying to catch up to the energies that have built up quickly.  This is something to take seriously - we have had several members that have participated in these forums from psychiatric facilities who experienced many of the things you have mentioned prior to becoming members of those facilities.

 

The long form asanas will be helpful.

 

Qi Gong only if your instructor fully knows your entire present situation and what habits you may have that would be decisively ill advised. Breathing habits and practices are among the most serious threats to energy deviations.

 

 

I'm not clear on the bolded parts.

 

How do I breath into my lower dan tien? Does all the time mean when am not formally meditating or otherwise practising? Is there a resource I should read?

 

What is meant by active doing practice? I usually do an open awareness meditation or a Shikantaza type. I occasionally concentrate exclusively on my breath or do a shortish bodyscan  loosely based on Goenka style. 

 

What are long form asana's?

 

Thanks Spotless.

 

I note that my queries arise due to my ignorance in these matters.

 

 

20 hours ago, rideforever said:

I studied Simon Blow and Wild Goose for a year, going through the material of several teachers; but I do not consider him a good teacher he has a Western/ mental approach which does not reflect Wild Goose, also he seems to be in poor physical condition compared to other Wild Goose teachers.  The best teachers I found were Shane Lear in the US, and a Chinese woman called Hui Liu I believe in Canada. 

 

However I do not believe WG or any such traditions are for you, and that you should seek a Qigong that will flow with your Buddhist path and your natural adeptness, WG and such things are for people who have no energy gifts and need to recover from sickness.

 

Shikantaza has a large energetic component.  What you can add to your practice to turn on the energetic work is to rest inside the belly and gently fall with the exhale.  First resting down from the belly, sitting down from the belly, and ultimately flowing down from the belly.  In order to do this you must change your practice point to be in the centre of the belly.  This does not mean that you focus from your head to the belly, it means you are no longer inside your head.  You must begin this practice from being inside the belly.

I say this because Buddhist practices are often head based.

Eventually if you fall from the belly it descends the Central Channel and eventually the head follows creating and downward current into the source or the base of the ShivaLingam.

And you need no  further instruction.

 

If you wish something more you can do Zhan Zhuang with a teacher who teachers surrender like Mark Cohen.

Other teachers teach toughing it out to build qi - which is not good imo.

And there is also Hakuyu Butter Meditation.

https://buddhismnow.com/2015/09/12/zen-sickness-by-zen-master-hakuin/

 

Also if you are adept at meditation and energetic work, you could also add other avenues to your growth including relationships with women and other skills in the world.

 

 

 

I am clueless as to which methods are like WG and conversely  which will flow with my Buddhist path. I am keen to hear from anyone else too on this point.

 

I think I need a resource to refer to so I can understand resting inside the belly , sitting down from

the belly etc. - Is there a name for this practise?

 

Not sure about the idea of teaching surrender.

 

Thanks Moment. 

 

Again, my queries arise due to my ignorance.

 

 

 

MORE CLARIFICATION ON ME

 

I appreciate the urges to be cautious, but confess to being fairly relaxed about all this - it's been going on for three years now  and the intense crazy Kundali movements finished 2 years ago.

 

I did meet with Simon Blow and attend one class with him and bought a book and DVD. I told him of my experiences but he didn't seem too interested - although he was very  nice and polite guy.

He didn't question me on any details or caution me about the dangers or recommend any particular style. My impression was that he mainly teaches retirees in community classes and travels around doing not very serious courses here and there as well as leading Qigong tours to China. ''Rideforever' you can maybe correct me on this. He may have ability but not sure if he is a genuine teacher of serious students. 

 

Is any teacher better than no teacher? I have been unable find any serious Qigong in Sydney - only community type classes catering to senior citizens mostly. I went to  a martial arts school too but it was hopeless (the master no longer taught due to old age).

 

I am thinking to give Zhan Zhuang a go via the Marc Cohen book and maybe find some teacher later if possible. Is Zhan Zhuang doable from a book?

 

I might try Yantra yoga(Apparently authentic Tibetan) Yoga via books and Dvd''s. I understand the poses are fairly straightforward Hatha style (although poses are not held for extended periods) and I like yoga and am quite good at it physically. I could do a retreat later with one of the very few teachers of it in Australia (none in Sydney).

 

What do you think? Are these as effective as Qigong or Tai Chi? And are there any recommended styles for my situation? Or is it a matter of just trial and error and experimenting to see what feels right?

 

I could just do the Shibashi Qigong DVD I have and do some not very serious classes. Are there any opinions on Shibashi?

 

Also what about my spontaneous Qigong?

 

My goal is to resolve energy blockages. I am not focused on health or martial aspects of Qigong or any other energy practise. 

 

For the sake of clarity I'm not responding directly to all posts and all suggestions but I am taking them on board - will give due consideration and research further etc.

 

So thanks again everyone.

 

 

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8 hours ago, thelerner said:

That's one of Jeds favorite tricks, I saw him perform it on a youtube.  He reminds me of an insecure martial artist who picks a girl out of the audience, one way smaller then him and demonstrates his 'abilities' on them.  He intentionally picks inexperienced people so he could tear them apart verbally infront of in audience to prove his ?? ego.  It's a skit he's perfected and it relies on choosing inexperienced people from the audience. 

 

A real master or senior student could answer calmly with good answers and would undoubtedly ask him the same questions and let him humm and haw.  Silly ego game.  An teacher wouldn't allow the rude interruptions and could lecture for hours about the benefits of there art.  Which is why its so important for him to pick someone he could fluster and who'd defer to his authority and not question him back. 

 

This stuff we do, is about getting better, living better.. Enlightenment, whatever that is, might be the very top but its the trip, the learning and the people along the way.   Cause even after enlightenment its still chop wood, carry water. 

 

 

To the best of my knowledge Jed doesn't do youtube, or martial arts.

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3 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

Quit the fucking WMP recruitment drive!!!! 

 

There is no such thing as WMP, only MP.

 

There is no recruitment drive here, just general advice.

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1 hour ago, Ecclectica said:

 

 

Simon Blow, I bought his WG book which was sold with the idea that it has technical understanding of energetics, but it is extremely superficial and went straight in the bin.  I also noticed he got the requisite photo with the teacher back in China, which seemed quite insincere.  He is not committed and probably wants a retirement income for himself teaching seniors.

 

What are your blockages exactly ?  What is it you want ?

 

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2 hours ago, Ecclectica said:

Is any teacher better than no teacher? I have been unable find any serious Qigong in Sydney - only community type classes catering to senior citizens mostly. I went to  a martial arts school too but it was hopeless (the master no longer taught due to old age).

 

As you are in Sydney, my teacher, John Dolic, at www.qigongchinesehealth.com, is one of the best people I have met for it. Spontaneous Qigong alone from him is fantastic, but he also teaches Baguazhang classes in a group and Shaolin long fist. The man also knows many more styles beyond what he publicly teaches. 

 

He also teaches Shibashi on his site and does Skype sessions too. Feel free to contact him and if you need an introduction, let me know and I can talk to him. 

Edited by Earl Grey
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4 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Simon Blow, I bought his WG book which was sold with the idea that it has technical understanding of energetics, but it is extremely superficial and went straight in the bin.  I also noticed he got the requisite photo with the teacher back in China, which seemed quite insincere.  He is not committed and probably wants a retirement income for himself teaching seniors.

 

What are your blockages exactly ?  What is it you want ?

 

 

 

I don't know what my blockages are.

 

I really don't know what more I can say other than what I have said. I just want an energy practise to resolve, in whatever way, my energy issues so I can meditate more effectively.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Ecclectica said:

I really don't know what more I can say other than what I have said. I just want an energy practise to resolve, in whatever way, my energy issues so I can meditate more effectively.

 

Then a chat with Dolic will help because he is also a TCM doctor and can understand these things. 

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1 minute ago, Wuschel said:

maybe the open awareness time and spontenous movements is all you need?

 

 

Yes, could be enough.

 

I did however ask an ex-monk and full-time teacher who knows my practise well if I should do Qigong and he was for it. Maybe he was just just being prudent though.

 

The other thing is it helps develop bodily awareness which is important in developing continuity of mindfulness.

 

It is also an engaging alternative to walking meditation on retreats.

 

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5 minutes ago, Ecclectica said:

blockages

Blockages cannot be fully resolved with qigong because they are ultimately due to unconsciousness, and so continuing with meditation practice becoming conscious is a big part of the solution ... until that time you do not actually have control of your self.  

 

When you sit you should not move.  That is a fundamental of the practice. You simply must not move. 

Not to be overly controlled, but you certainly don't move anything. 

In Zen sitting just follow a traditional teacher like Suzuki's Beginner's Mind Zen Mind.

 

As the water settles the rocks appear.  There are many discomforts that need to be worked through, that is the journey, it is painful and your experiences show that these things are arising.  That is normal.  Continue. 

It may be useful for you to take a more settling approach to meditation as a whole.

I gave instructions for merging with the breath in the belly.

 

I suggest that physical exercise might work for you.  Running, martial arts, anything.   You can get Yan Lei's bootcamp dvds or join an evening class.

It may fix your discomforts better than any energy work; energy work may bring much more energetic disturbances into your life.  Much more.  Spontaneous qigong will completely let loose a lot of things and you may not like it at all.

You can only deal with so much. 

imo you are already releasing too much stuff and need to relax and strengthen.  This karma has been there for a long time, it will take time.  So relax, and then continue.

 

You can try Shane Lear WG, or Mark Cohen. 

I also like Bruce Frantzis.  These are grounded people with grounded practice.

 

I would avoid any big energy systems.

 

 

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