Recommended Posts

Robert Peng's Yi Jin Jing is in another league, compared to what you commonly see. His has the proper reverse abdominal breathing and levels of intensity that the others don't have. This is the only version that I have seen, that actually really applies the bone marrow washing and tendon changing classics of Bodhidharma (the way Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming teaches). His Shaolin Sifu taught him this version. The instruction is very detailed. I've only followed up to the first 4 forms to try it out. To give an example there is this form where you stand similar to "hugging the tree" standing meditation, then you relax a little in that posture with normal breathing and then you start doing reverse abdominal breathing and really push the air out or your lungs at exhale, while you push your arms away, back and forth, with three sets of intensity, every time tightening and relaxing the muscles, joints, fascia and organs (according to the specific form). After doing couple of rounds= buzzing all over arms, chest and lungs (this form is focused on strengthening the lungs). You also use some intension and imagination, like your really pushing against something heavy. This practice is supposed to make you stronger on many levels. It's a Shaolin foundation practice that is supposed to make weak monks, not so weak anymore. I don't like many of his practices, but this one is special.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, dwai said:

I've read the book. It's good. He does cover the Yi Jin Jing in the book, but not the practice of the set of 12 "forms" per se. He treats Yi Jin Jing as a principle. So while it is illuminating, it still leaves an opening for a teacher to explain and correlate the practice with the "principle of Yi Jin Jing" as outlined in his book.

 

 

So, after reading it do you think you could apply the principles given to other forms. Does it provide "inside" information that you don't get from watching a YouTube video. It seems to me that without that inside information one is just flapping their arms around in the air. How is the Yi Jin Jing any more beneficial than doing burpees, push-ups, and planks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, escott said:

 

So, after reading it do you think you could apply the principles given to other forms. Does it provide "inside" information that you don't get from watching a YouTube video. It seems to me that without that inside information one is just flapping their arms around in the air. How is the Yi Jin Jing any more beneficial than doing burpees, push-ups, and planks?

Since I'm a long time taijiquan practitioner, a lot of what he describes in the book is already how my body has become (a taiji body). So I just followed the instructions of the video, and I can feel the effects. 

 

I think having a background in one of the internal martial arts is important, and that will help you understand the yijinjing type practice, and validate that you are indeed feeling what you should be feeling. 

 

I'm not sure that I could even understand what he wrote about without already having experienced the phenomena first hand. It is for that reason that I find his books illuminating, as they provide some theory behind the direct experience based understanding  that I already have. I'm not sure someone with no background and hands on experience with qigong/neigong will be able to do more than get an academic understanding of the subject(s) from his books (if at all). There is also the risk of them misunderstanding (assuming/imagining) things too, if they try to follow along purely from an academic perspective. 

Edited by dwai
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/6/2019 at 6:15 AM, Spotless said:

However - the location of Awareness is also taught to be in centeredness if not in the LDT to try and be in the Central Axis and this is often reminded. Awareness in the Center of Head vs forward in the head or outside of the head - or Awareness in the Middle Dan Tien or Lower dan tien - along the axis always so if one drifts up to the head - be in the middle of the head in the Axis or in the whole axis at the same moment - it depends on the student.

 

This rings very true, from my experience and is a wonderful description of the mechanics of true centered meditation. Embodied, and integrated. The energy is no longer floating (the key point), and the central channel helps for that. Another way to say what you wrote is the entire body becomes the lower Dantian. For me, I first tap into the lower Dantian, then this opens up a void where I can access the central channel. Then I just rest in that space from the center of the head to the LDT. I'm not sure I would say I box my awareness into that space, but I reside there.  The way I was taught is to merge my awareness with the wholeness of my body, evenly. That's why the phrasing "location of awareness" is a bit strong to me. We keep our awareness open, diffuse, and let it trickle down from the head to merge with the body, evenly, by itself.

 

Practically when I enter the central channel, I feel a kind of mist inside, or a steam of Qi, something buoyant that is radiating from the central channel and removing blockages as it expands to the rest of the body. Then I stay focused on the sense of wholeness in the body. This is what Master Ni Hua Ching refers to as "natural meditation". In his book Spring Thunder, the describes it as merging your "pure form" with your physical body. It does feel like we have an inner self in the body - to me it kind of feels like the central channel with limbs and a head, if that makes sense, haha.... So the way I view this is the "mechanics" part is residing along the axis, but the flowering of the meditation is the integration of awareness and body that ensues, naturally, without manipulation or engineering, as the Qi and awareness come down and diffuses naturally and evenly.

 

You have a great Master and it's incredible you can benefit from almost 1 on 1 instruction with him. It's also wonderful what he said about you...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

 

This rings very true, from my experience and is a wonderful description of the mechanics of true centered meditation. Embodied, and integrated. The energy is no longer floating (the key point), and the central channel helps for that. Another way to say what you wrote is the entire body becomes the lower Dantian. For me, I first tap into the lower Dantian, then this opens up a void where I can access the central channel. Then I just rest in that space from the center of the head to the LDT. I'm not sure I would say I box my awareness into that space, but I reside there.  The way I was taught is to merge my awareness with the wholeness of my body, evenly. That's why the phrasing "location of awareness" is a bit strong to me. We keep our awareness open, diffuse, and let it trickle down from the head to merge with the body, evenly, by itself.

 

Practically when I enter the central channel, I feel a kind of mist inside, or a steam of Qi, something buoyant that is radiating from the central channel and removing blockages as it expands to the rest of the body. Then I stay focused on the sense of wholeness in the body. This is what Master Ni Hua Ching refers to as "natural meditation". In his book Spring Thunder, the describes it as merging your "pure form" with your physical body. It does feel like we have an inner self in the body - to me it kind of feels like the central channel with limbs and a head, if that makes sense, haha.... So the way I view this is the "mechanics" part is residing along the axis, but the flowering of the meditation is the integration of awareness and body that ensues, naturally, without manipulation or engineering, as the Qi and awareness come down and diffuses naturally and evenly.

 

You have a great Master and it's incredible you can benefit from almost 1 on 1 instruction with him. It's also wonderful what he said about you...

 

Not sure if it the same thing, but there is an instruction to recognize the awareness behind the eyes and then feel the awareness watching the whole body as yet another object, the same way as watching other objects that gives a nice effect and detachment. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sebastian said:

 

This rings very true, from my experience and is a wonderful description of the mechanics of true centered meditation. Embodied, and integrated. The energy is no longer floating (the key point), and the central channel helps for that. Another way to say what you wrote is the entire body becomes the lower Dantian. For me, I first tap into the lower Dantian, then this opens up a void where I can access the central channel. Then I just rest in that space from the center of the head to the LDT. I'm not sure I would say I box my awareness into that space, but I reside there.  The way I was taught is to merge my awareness with the wholeness of my body, evenly. That's why the phrasing "location of awareness" is a bit strong to me. We keep our awareness open, diffuse, and let it trickle down from the head to merge with the body, evenly, by itself.

 

Practically when I enter the central channel, I feel a kind of mist inside, or a steam of Qi, something buoyant that is radiating from the central channel and removing blockages as it expands to the rest of the body. Then I stay focused on the sense of wholeness in the body. This is what Master Ni Hua Ching refers to as "natural meditation". In his book Spring Thunder, the describes it as merging your "pure form" with your physical body. It does feel like we have an inner self in the body - to me it kind of feels like the central channel with limbs and a head, if that makes sense, haha.... So the way I view this is the "mechanics" part is residing along the axis, but the flowering of the meditation is the integration of awareness and body that ensues, naturally, without manipulation or engineering, as the Qi and awareness come down and diffuses naturally and evenly.

 

You have a great Master and it's incredible you can benefit from almost 1 on 1 instruction with him. It's also wonderful what he said about you...

The teaching regarding the central axis and so forth is from my own inner experience and from the energies themselves. It was not taught to me by my master nor something I read or heard - it is what one comes to know and what has emerged in what I teach.

 

What you have discribed in the initial stages becomes many fold stronger.

 

It becomes the full trunk - residing in centeredness was not meant to imply a rigidizing of Awareness - within the subtle bodies it is the axel core axis - the “subtle bodies” become far more prominent than the  

gross physical and centeredness is implied within its matrix.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is experiential for me too, but I didn't get there on my own efforts like you. For me it was an experience revealed by my Master, through some careful verbal cues when looking at the LDT one day. It was a bit like magic, he was saying things and they were becoming true, energetically, one at a time. The LDT opened up a void (behind the navel) and a very pure Qi that feels unsubstantial sprang forth from it, almost feeling like Light. Then this Pure Qi travels through the central channel and then the rest of body. We only had to do this once, and now I can access this space you are referring too, effortlessly. But it is in the early stages as you said and I'm still coming to grasp with what this is... thanks for your words. It's true the physical seems to disappear, relative to the energetic. At that point it feels like the energetic is "wearing" the physical like an article of clothing, if that makes sense. I'll keep playing with it.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, JohnDoe2012, your sound very familiar......  Didn't you go to Virginia Tech with my cousin InsertSurname2019 ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/13/2019 at 4:45 PM, Sebastian said:

By the way, JohnDoe2012, your sound very familiar......  Didn't you go to Virginia Tech with my cousin InsertSurname2019 ?

 

 

I am famous for playing the corpse in American TV series ('hey we got a John Doe here') :) but never been to Virginia Tech before :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

I am famous for playing the corpse in American TV series ('hey we got a John Doe here')

 

Haha ok.... Takes some acting skill to be a good corpse for sure. I'm sure you where in some famous series too... Respect. I think I see who you are now (with this added information). Thanks

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yi Jin Jing principles are everywhere in the internal arts... it’s what makes these arts internal... The real stuff is all rather secretive. It’s also very powerful and can be dangerous. It’s not in any book or video (at least not fully).

 

By ‘real stuff’ I mean taking things beyond just activating the Jing Jin - but building the (physical) Dantien... generating huge quantities of yang Qi and yin Qi and ‘filling’ the body... this eventually moves into the marrow changing work and alchemy... Robert Peng’s (yang Qi) skill is all based on the Yi Jin Jing - but from what I could see he doesn’t actually teach the real stuff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, freeform said:

Robert Peng’s (yang Qi) skill is all based on the Yi Jin Jing - but from what I could see he doesn’t actually teach the real stuff.

 

In a video, Robert said that Yi Jin Jing is a classical qigong style, much as ballet is a classical dance style.  He said that many dancers start out with ballet training as a base, even if they then go on to practice other dance styles.  Similarly, Yi Jin Jing provides a foundation from which cultivators can branch out in a number of other directions.  i think It´s intended as a beginning point rather than an end point.  

Edited by liminal_luke
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

In a video, Robert said that Yi Jin Jing is a classical qigong style, much as ballet is a classical dance style.  He said that many dancers start out with ballet training as a base, even if they then go on to practice other dance styles.  Similarly, Yi Jin Jing provides a foundation from which cultivators can branch out in a number of other directions.  i think It´s intended as a beginning point rather than an end point.  

 

Yeah, Peng clearly knows what he’s talking about. His ‘electric shock’ skill is a classic result of high level YJJ skill.

 

There is no actual YJJ ‘form’, just a range of qualities and principles that can be applied to most ‘internal’ forms. It’s the ‘engine’ of internal movement... later it’s also a method of clearing channels and generating very powerful Qi.

 

However - instructions to use muscles or tension is a common way to ‘hide’ the true engine. When masters use YJJ principles, it often looks like intense muscular effort. It’s not.

 

It’s the intense Qi pressure moving through the Jing Jin. It’s a very uncomfortable practice.

 

If he still has any connection with his teachers or his original school, he would be condemned if he released the real information in such a public format.

 

But I might be wrong - I’ve not done his course - just heard about some of what he teaches.

 

Visualisation and use of force, tension or muscles is the usual giveaway - so judge for yourselves.

 

The Qi generated with authentic YJJ is very ‘thick’ and ‘dense’ - when it’s projected it can be very intense for the recipient - often felt as strong electric shocks moving through the body or painful lines of compression/compaction. Treating this way is really dangerous for both patient and practitioner. The training can be damaging if done incorrectly too... most of the YJJ sets on YouTube are fine though - they’re useful stretching routines, but not the real stuff.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Visualisation and use of force, tension or muscles is the usual giveaway - so judge for yourselves.

 

 

I´m taking the course (starting today!) so I guess I´ll find out.  Robert Peng says that what differentiates his form from others shown on Youtube is an emphasis on specific breathing methods.  I don´t know all of the breathing (it´s the topic of week one) but part of it is reverse abdominal breathing.  From reading posts in his forum, I gather there are some visualizations connected with the different organs/meridians.  Personally, I´m not convinced such visualizations are always a bad thing.  The "inner smile" as taught by Michael Winn involves imagining smiling energy and it seems inocuous enough.  I do appreciate your point of view however: a few weeks ago you explained, quite convincingly, why it doesn´t work to imagine qi sinking. Thanks for that.

 

I´m thinking of keeping a journal of my experience of the course in my PPD in case any other Bums might be interested in the practice.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, freeform said:

Yeah, Peng clearly knows what he’s talking about. His ‘electric shock’ skill is a classic result of high level YJJ skill.

 

Are you sure about this? In his book Master Peng says the ability to discharge electric Qi was developed after his Small Death.

I thought high level YJJ skill was being able to sustain heavy hits to the body without pain and injury and breaking stones with fingers as it works on Wei Qi.

 

Would love to hear more from you about Yi Jin Jing, anything that you can share. Do you practice it? There is a Daoist and Buddhist Yi Jin Jing right? Are there several versions of Daoist YJJ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

Are you sure about this? In his book Master Peng says the ability to discharge electric Qi was developed after his Small Death.

 

I’m sure about the fact that the practice of YJJ creates yang Qi to a high enough level to create ‘electric-like’ effects. I’ve met many practitioners able to project Yang Qi (as ‘electric’ shocks) just as Peng is reported to do - and I’ve built this sort of Yang Qi in my own body through the application of YJJ principles (though I haven’t learned to project).

 

I don’t know what ‘small death’ means, but that seems to be more of a timing thing than a cause and effect thing. 

 

9 hours ago, KuroShiro said:

I thought high level YJJ skill was being able to sustain heavy hits to the body without pain and injury and breaking stones with fingers as it works on Wei Qi.

 

Circus tricks :) - YJJ and Brain and Marrow Washing (BMW) are designed to prepare one for the extremes of deep meditation... These are preparatory arts for spiritual work, and they go very deep indeed... this electric shock emission is just one side effect... strength, health, vitality and the building of extreme amounts of Qi is also a bunch of side effects - but all necessary for later work on the spiritual level.

 

The YJJ And BMW are thought to be Buddhist in origin, but they’ve clearly been readily adopted by Daoists. YJJ forms the backbone of most classical Qi Gong and Nei Gong systems (rarely admitted)... and the BMW forms much of the later level Nei Gong and Alchemical work.

 

The YJJ basically starts with a way of transitioning away from using the major muscles as the primary ‘engine’ of movement - and instead moving to using the ‘tendons and sinews’... or rather several different layers of fascia-like tissue as well as strands of ‘deep muscle’... These tissues are able to conduct Qi (and later actually build Qi) while the majors muscles cannot.

 

This work takes a long time... many years. It’s very uncomfortable, painful and difficult. It’s literally like bodybuilding - but building something very different to the muscles. You must have the correct methods otherwise it’s just stretching and breathing :)

 

Once the YJJ body (or Qigong body as I normally call it) is built, your channels are largely clear (and in many cases fused together) - your muscles are soft and relaxed, but there’s this thick steel cable-like structure of connective tissue around the bone. Steel wrapped in cotton :) The body looks vibrant, slightly ‘expanded’ like a baby’s (Peng in taiji) and becomes very strong (so yes taking blows and feats of strength are possible - although most of the circus acts just build these things directly (eg. calluses and ordinary muscle strength) - not through YJJ) 

 

BMW goes further and works with the bones and marrow (the brain was considered marrow) and clears blockages and then builds further Qi generation engine and storage. This moves onto the alchemical work of ‘burning the channels’ - which burns away Karmic roots in the channels.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, freeform said:

 

 

Hey FreeForm ! 


Welcome back.... How was your one month retreat ? Great to have you back :)

 

-Seb

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, freeform said:

 

I’m sure about the fact that the practice of YJJ creates yang Qi to a high enough level to create ‘electric-like’ effects. I’ve met many practitioners able to project Yang Qi (as ‘electric’ shocks) just as Peng is reported to do - and I’ve built this sort of Yang Qi in my own body through the application of YJJ principles (though I haven’t learned to project).

 

I don’t know what ‘small death’ means, but that seems to be more of a timing thing than a cause and effect thing. 

 

 

Circus tricks :) - YJJ and Brain and Marrow Washing (BMW) are designed to prepare one for the extremes of deep meditation... These are preparatory arts for spiritual work, and they go very deep indeed... this electric shock emission is just one side effect... strength, health, vitality and the building of extreme amounts of Qi is also a bunch of side effects - but all necessary for later work on the spiritual level.

 

The YJJ And BMW are thought to be Buddhist in origin, but they’ve clearly been readily adopted by Daoists. YJJ forms the backbone of most classical Qi Gong and Nei Gong systems (rarely admitted)... and the BMW forms much of the later level Nei Gong and Alchemical work.

 

The YJJ basically starts with a way of transitioning away from using the major muscles as the primary ‘engine’ of movement - and instead moving to using the ‘tendons and sinews’... or rather several different layers of fascia-like tissue as well as strands of ‘deep muscle’... These tissues are able to conduct Qi (and later actually build Qi) while the majors muscles cannot.

 

This work takes a long time... many years. It’s very uncomfortable, painful and difficult. It’s literally like bodybuilding - but building something very different to the muscles. You must have the correct methods otherwise it’s just stretching and breathing :)

 

Once the YJJ body (or Qigong body as I normally call it) is built, your channels are largely clear (and in many cases fused together) - your muscles are soft and relaxed, but there’s this thick steel cable-like structure of connective tissue around the bone. Steel wrapped in cotton :) The body looks vibrant, slightly ‘expanded’ like a baby’s (Peng in taiji) and becomes very strong (so yes taking blows and feats of strength are possible - although most of the circus acts just build these things directly (eg. calluses and ordinary muscle strength) - not through YJJ) 

 

BMW goes further and works with the bones and marrow (the brain was considered marrow) and clears blockages and then builds further Qi generation engine and storage. This moves onto the alchemical work of ‘burning the channels’ - which burns away Karmic roots in the channels.

 

Thank you very much!

 

3 hours ago, freeform said:

Once the YJJ body (or Qigong body as I normally call it) is built, your channels are largely clear (and in many cases fused together) - your muscles are soft and relaxed, but there’s this thick steel cable-like structure of connective tissue around the bone. Steel wrapped in cotton :) The body looks vibrant, slightly ‘expanded’ like a baby’s (Peng in taiji) and becomes very strong (so yes taking blows and feats of strength are possible - although most of the circus acts just build these things directly (eg. calluses and ordinary muscle strength) - not through YJJ) 

 

I've experienced this first hand with my Teacher's Teacher, it's incredible :)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sebastian said:

 

Hey FreeForm ! 


Welcome back.... How was your one month retreat ? Great to have you back :)

 

-Seb

 

Thanks Seb :)

 

My retreat went very well. It’s amazing what you can achieve in just a month when focusing on full-time cultivation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi folks I'm signed up for the RP Yi jin jing course. So far at times we're using strong fire methods with reverse ab breathing. The activation of tissues/ sinews happens strongly on the exhale, the soft tissue activation reminds me of some of the practices in Yi chuan where there is stretching and pushing. 

 

Seems like an effective practice so far. Robert Peng makes the point that it is being taught correctly and a large part of that is correct use of breathing and lower dantian. He presents it well and seems very genuine. I'll report back further down the line.

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Andy_W said:

 

Seems like an effective practice so far. Robert Peng makes the point that it is being taught correctly and a large part of that is correct use of breathing and lower dantian. He presents it well and seems very genuine. I'll report back further down the line.

 

I was also impressed by the Day One practice videos and particularly liked "nourishing qi."  Am a little concerned that some of the strong fire breathing will be overly stimulating for me personally healthwise, but I guess I´ll just take it easy and see how it goes.  There does seem to be some muscular tension and visualization -- the two things Freeform warned about -- and yet previous class participants wrote in the forum about physical/mental health benefits. I like Robert´s energy a lot and everything about the course seems well put together.  

Edited by liminal_luke
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the fire breathing is strong but can be scaled back as he describes to suit all types. Nourishing Qi is a lovely balancing practice to the above.

 

As far as the warnings about it not being correct practice I imagine there are variations in all systems and it's to be seen what develops alongside the pushing contractions. Have to see how it goes :).... 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/20/2019 at 1:04 PM, freeform said:

Yi Jin Jing principles are everywhere in the internal arts... it’s what makes these arts internal... The real stuff is all rather secretive. It’s also very powerful and can be dangerous. It’s not in any book or video (at least not fully).

 

I seem to remember that there was a Chinese teacher (not R. Peng) who taught expensive Yi Jin Jing seminars on the west coast a number of years back. He did the electric shock stuff and was popular among the Mopai "special powers" crowd. I believe that he suddenly dropped dead at a fairly young age. Does anyone else remember this? Freeforms comment about it being dangerous brought this to mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dainin said:

I believe that he suddenly dropped dead at a fairly young age.

 

I think you’re referring to Jiang Feng. He did have a high level of skill through YJJ training... He was the adopted son of Xuan Kong who was very highly achieved. Jiang’s focus was on healing and not on spiritual development and from some of what I’ve heard - although he was an excellent healer, he also had questionable ethics.

 

As far as I know he died during a healing treatment. 

 

Mistakes at this high level are often fatal... 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites