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Neidan ( all experiences and opinions wanted)

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4 hours ago, freeform said:

 

Just to bring it down to my current (lowly) level of practice so I understand...

You are doing just fine

4 hours ago, freeform said:

 

I’m assuming you’ve managed fully open you microcosmic orbit...

yes

4 hours ago, freeform said:

could you share what (physical/physiological) changes you experienced at that level of practice?

i would love to except there was not any). Like i said, the elixir does not do anything except giving you confidence. There is a reason why it is called 'nei' - internal. 

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2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

i would love to except there was not any).

 

Do you do any Qi Gong or Nei Gong too? 

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12 minutes ago, freeform said:

 

Do you do any Qi Gong or Nei Gong too? 

No. I do some sitting and standing, 2-3 sets of taichee in a day.

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13 hours ago, freeform said:

<snip>

But the reality is that it’s actually very context dependent... would the grass still be green under a red light? Or as seen through colour-blind eyes? 

 

Quote

<snip>

...studying Qi will be very difficult because there is the Qi of feng shui, the Qi of qigong, the Qi of taiji - and they are all completely and fundamentally different.

 

Thank you for bringing light to an important aspect of chi:

context.

 

How many factors might be implicated in one’s experience and cultivation of chi?

  • Lineage chi
  • Religion chi
  • Teacher chi
  • Scripture chi
  • Movement art chi
  • Fu chi
  • Meditation chi
  • Daily life chi
  • Spouse chi
  • Family chi
  • Destiny chi
  • Organ chi
  • Food chi
  • Location chi
  • Cultivator’s level of chi body openness and intrinsic talents

 

(Just a few that I can think of atm. :) )

Edited by rainbowvein
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This week I discovered the illusive Cha Qi (tea qi) - was given a very nice aged Pu Erh tea :)

Edited by freeform
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On 12/21/2018 at 10:04 AM, Stosh said:

Since I do not believe you or any body else is going to live past their death , Neidan only presents a possibility of prolonging life. 

shouldn't butt in on this exchange,   but I would have to say QED on this one. (Quod Erat Demonstrandum)  or "that which is to be shown.  To say you "don't believe something" is just that, a belief, not good not bad, but certainly not scientific by any means.  This is the marching song western materialist rationalist goose step to.  From a truly scientific view point, one must say, "I have no idea".  We think ourselves "modern, rational, intelligent", and people who suggest that maybe there is an afterlife, (what ever that means) are looked upon as stupid superstitious, and non-scientific.   This is the reason we don't talk about seeing different life forms in meditation, or either subscribe it to some kind of mechanical brain malfunction or chemical imbalance.  This is also the reason that Buddha's, Issac Newton,  Plato, Aristotle, ideas on Gods, and spiritual   life is hidden or just ignored.  We are a product of our social programming. we can't help it.  I remember listening to Robert Thurman as a young man, sitting in meditation, and his Tibetan teacher came up to him and ask, "Why are you meditating so much? let just go get some yogurt"  Thurman replied, "because I want to become enlightened"..... His teacher said, "You are western, you cannot become enlightened, you are taught social beliefs that you cannot escape, so lets just go get some yogurt"..  I don't know how serious his teacher was about this , but I do understand his point. we are raised from the time we are born to believe in science, (which should not be a belief system),  and that our system of logic is the only correct way to think and see the world.  weird. 

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It is easy to think about prolonging one's life because it means prolonging one's ego.   And when people talk of Taoism that is mostly what they talk of because they is mostly what they understand and it's mostly what they get.   It doesn't involve you changing, but you change your lifespan so you can carry on for longer.

 

I can't explain why some people understand spirituality, and others don't but that's the way it seems to be.  

Edited by rideforever
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Well Zen Pig, that's rapidly changing these days: the internet has opened up the possibility for any idiot to post pseudoscientific nonsense and to promote the most bizarre conspiracy theories, and some of that is already acquiring a global following by means of videos on You Tube. Further Trump has become an admired model for many by showing how one can become hugely successful by systematically ignoring expert knowledge and by flatly contradicting proven facts that are not to his own liking. Finally in the field of academic philosophy postmodernism has succeeded in framing the accomplishments of science and rational thought as a form of western imperialism or even of rabid racism. We can already see what will take over if science and rational thought will lose their leading role in the West, and that will not be tolerance and an open mind...

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10 hours ago, freeform said:

This week I discovered the illusive Cha Qi (tea qi) - was given a very nice aged Pu Erh tea :)

My eccentric relatives would drink white gold laced tea. I even found a line in history about some who would grind up and make tea out of the cloth from old Egyptian mummies for the supposed white gold that was some how soaked into them. This may be why I turned out so Normal-:wacko:

Neidan ( all experiences and opinions wanted)

My comment about tea did not seem relevant, but I am trying to connect Neidan actions to my own craft, which is netting me much cultivation. Diets and such seem to be a part of the whole process.

Edited by mrpasserby
completed a partially expressed thought
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22 hours ago, wandelaar said:

We can already see what will take over if science and rational thought will lose their leading role in the West, and that will not be tolerance and an open mind...

 

It’s important to realise that even though we seem to be on the brink of collapse, we’re most certainly living in a golden age!! It’s easy to forget. But not so long ago you would've more likely died from being bludgeoned to death than from eating too much!!

 

Incidentally Daoism is the wisest, most elegant and pragmatic approach to spiritual cultivation I have come across - and I’ve searched far and wide.

 

In terms of spiritual cultivation and philosophy of life Daoism is as ‘rational’ as you’ll get... it’s just that their frame of reference is different to modern people.

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20 hours ago, freeform said:

Incidentally Daoism is the wisest, most elegant and pragmatic approach to spiritual cultivation I have come across - and I’ve searched far and wide.

 

I agree on that. However the further you move away from the Taoism of Lao tzu and Chuang tzu the more absurdities and empty rituals are added. 

 

Quote

In terms of spiritual cultivation and philosophy of life Daoism is as ‘rational’ as you’ll get... it’s just that their frame of reference is different to modern people.

 

The Hellenistic Epicureans, Stoics and Sceptics were at least as rational in presenting a philosophy of life as the ancient Taoists. It's more that the Taoists were more encompassing in their approach. What is of worth in the Epicureans, Stoics and Sceptics can also be found in the Taoists.

 

Edited by wandelaar

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Posted (edited)
On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Zen Pig said:

shouldn't butt in on this exchange,   but I would have to say QED on this one. (Quod Erat Demonstrandum)  or "that which is to be shown.  To say you "don't believe something" is just that, a belief, not good not bad, but certainly not scientific by any means.  This is the marching song western materialist rationalist goose step to.  From a truly scientific view point, one must say, "I have no idea".  We think ourselves "modern, rational, intelligent", and people who suggest that maybe there is an afterlife, (what ever that means) are looked upon as stupid superstitious, and non-scientific.   This is the reason we don't talk about seeing different life forms in meditation, or either subscribe it to some kind of mechanical brain malfunction or chemical imbalance.  This is also the reason that Buddha's, Issac Newton,  Plato, Aristotle, ideas on Gods, and spiritual   life is hidden or just ignored.  We are a product of our social programming. we can't help it.  I remember listening to Robert Thurman as a young man, sitting in meditation, and his Tibetan teacher came up to him and ask, "Why are you meditating so much? let just go get some yogurt"  Thurman replied, "because I want to become enlightened"..... His teacher said, "You are western, you cannot become enlightened, you are taught social beliefs that you cannot escape, so lets just go get some yogurt"..  I don't know how serious his teacher was about this , but I do understand his point. we are raised from the time we are born to believe in science, (which should not be a belief system),  and that our system of logic is the only correct way to think and see the world.  weird. 

 

  balony. Thanks. 

 

Edited by Stosh
edited to save breath.
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19 hours ago, wandelaar said:

I agree on that. However the further you move away from the Taoism of Lao tzu and Chuang tzu the more absurdities and empty rituals are added. 

 

These texts are written on multiple ‘levels’ - applying to a number of contexts at the same time. (In my opinion it’s what makes them so magical)

 

What a cultivator reads in these and what a ‘householder’ reads will be very different.

 

 

19 hours ago, wandelaar said:

The Hellenistic Epicureans, Stoics and Sceptics were at least as rational in presenting a philosophy of life as the ancient Taoists. It's more that the Taoist were more encompassing in their approach. What is of worth in the Epicureans, Stoics and Sceptics can also be found in the Taoists.

 

I agree - in terms of philosophy of life for ‘householders’... or even for ‘self development’ - there are many other philosophies (including ones you mention) that are very good. 

 

But Daoism is amazingly wholistic - taking you from land management to the highest levels of spiritual cultivation under a single, all encompassing model of existence. I’ve not come across anything as ‘complete’ in it’s reach. I’m constantly blown away at the depth of wisdom in this tradition.

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