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Neidan ( all experiences and opinions wanted)

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Has anyone actually achieve anything with alchemy, at all ?

 

I can say that practising a basic fire & water type of qigong, it does seem to dislodge blockages but in a disturbing way, and I prefer the violet flame that I use for similar things .... in fact I use it to dissolve any invading energies, especially at the time of the full moon when they are around, like now.   But in general dislodge blockages violently is not very good and can be conterproductive and is not my best way to do so because it fundamentally comes from a violent mind.

 

Another more interesting type of experience is .... I was returning home on the bicycle on the seafront against high winds right in my fact, huge force was needed to keep moving.   Anyway, I was feeling defeated and sad, but then I felt to meet that energy of negativity directly reconciling it with my honest will.   And then I felt like I slid into a channel of energy that was outside of the struggle, a clear space, no suffering.   That was a 4th Way type of experience.

 

Other types of alchemy that I feel are valuable if not essential, are meeting every moment of life with real presence and doing a good job, and retaining a sense of yourself.   Rather than drifting.   This requires some effort-will-hope, and is a kind of alchemy, a meeting of life as it flows towards you.   And it makes you feel real, and from that you can do things.

 

As for the energy alchemy that various "taoisits" are doing .... I remain unconvinced.   Often teachers seem only to be collecting energies or "levels", which is not spiritual in my opinion.   Is the heart-soul-earth in people who wish for "energies" ?   And what will you do with "energies" ?   If someone chops wood every day and becomes strong, then that is great, that has purpose.   But energy for energy's sake ?

It can be useful to become sensitive to what is beyond the body, that's valuable.

I sense that many alchemy taoist practices work for reasons that they don't realise, all this yellow red pill elixir cinnabar stuff ... could be much simplified.

 

Additionally, alchemy instructions are very complicated and unclear, just look at this discussion.   This is not good as we are not very intelligent as a species.   Better to go for something simpler that is achievable - although everything is worth a shot.

 

It is also clear to me that many practitioners of alchemy and taoist techniques are themselves-identity- not changing one bit, they just want a fur coat made of energy, or some story in their head that is exotic .... but they don't really want to change.  Perhaps it could be a first step ?

 

The book Wuji and the Secret of Immortality I believe gives the basic instructions of the enlightenment of the Taoist path and is very do-able, you won't find better.   Why do I think this ?  Because I recognize the inner work of the instructions as being quite identical to those given by an awakened Zen priest who although teaching in completely different way gives instructions that are virtually identical in their practice, and yes I practice them although Taoist immortality is not my main goal right now, and yes it does go deep.  

Many people don't want the answer, however.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

This is Neidan!

 

 

Interesting video. What we see there is mass suggestion and unconscious role playing. Look how he first points to those who are supposed to fall. Then the people further away are unsure whether or not they belong to the group that is supposed to fall, and the effect is much less. Same thing can be done with hypnosis. That's why I am sceptical about the supposed effects of chi projection. These kind of shows are for consumption by uncritical believers, because as experimental demonstrations they are deeply flawed.

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15 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

the people further away ...the effect is much less.

It is because the force of the Qi projection Fq is inversely proportional to the square of the projection distance, according to the fundamental formula

 

Fq=N*(T1*T2)/D2

 

where N is the neidan school secret quotient

T1 is the truthiness of the neidan teacher

T2 is the truthiness  of the neidan student

D is the projection distance

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54 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Has anyone actually achieve anything with alchemy, at all ?

 

I can say that practising a basic fire & water type of qigong, it does seem to dislodge blockages but in a disturbing way, and I prefer the violet flame that I use for similar things .... in fact I use it to dissolve any invading energies, especially at the time of the full moon when they are around, like now.   But in general dislodge blockages violently is not very good and can be conterproductive and is not my best way to do so because it fundamentally comes from a violent mind.

 

Another more interesting type of experience is .... I was returning home on the bicycle on the seafront against high winds right in my fact, huge force was needed to keep moving.   Anyway, I was feeling defeated and sad, but then I felt to meet that energy of negativity directly reconciling it with my honest will.   And then I felt like I slid into a channel of energy that was outside of the struggle, a clear space, no suffering.   That was a 4th Way type of experience.

 

Other types of alchemy that I feel are valuable if not essential, are meeting every moment of life with real presence and doing a good job, and retaining a sense of yourself.   Rather than drifting.   This requires some effort-will-hope, and is a kind of alchemy, a meeting of life as it flows towards you.   And it makes you feel real, and from that you can do things.

 

As for the energy alchemy that various "taoisits" are doing .... I remain unconvinced.   Often teachers seem only to be collecting energies or "levels", which is not spiritual in my opinion.   Is the heart-soul-earth in people who wish for "energies" ?   And what will you do with "energies" ?   If someone chops wood every day and becomes strong, then that is great, that has purpose.   But energy for energy's sake ?

It can be useful to become sensitive to what is beyond the body, that's valuable.

I sense that many alchemy taoist practices work for reasons that they don't realise, all this yellow red pill elixir cinnabar stuff ... could be much simplified.

 

Additionally, alchemy instructions are very complicated and unclear, just look at this discussion.   This is not good as we are not very intelligent as a species.   Better to go for something simpler that is achievable - although everything is worth a shot.

 

It is also clear to me that many practitioners of alchemy and taoist techniques are themselves-identity- not changing one bit, they just want a fur coat made of energy, or some story in their head that is exotic .... but they don't really want to change.  Perhaps it could be a first step ?

 

The book Wuji and the Secret of Immortality I believe gives the basic instructions of the enlightenment of the Taoist path and is very do-able, you won't find better.   Why do I think this ?  Because I recognize the inner work of the instructions as being quite identical to those given by an awakened Zen priest who although teaching in completely different way gives instructions that are virtually identical in their practice, and yes I practice them although Taoist immortality is not my main goal right now, and yes it does go deep.  

Many people don't want the answer, however.

 

 

 

 

Most people are at the laying the foundations stage and are not really doing internal alchemy.

 

 

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11 hours ago, mla7 said:

can you or your neidan teacher do any of the things mentioned to an significant degree?

 

I can’t, no. My teacher can do a few of those things. Other teachers that I have met can do even more, but they wouldn’t teach me. I don’t practice Nei Dan anyway. 

 

I respect the privacy of these teachers (unless they teach publicly) - I had to be formally introduced and ‘tested’ to even meet with them. I assume it’s for a good reason.

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50 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Same thing can be done with hypnosis. That's why I am sceptical about the supposed effects of chi projection.

 

That video is hypnosis.

 

Qi projection looks and feels quite different.

 

It’s not a high level skill either - way before Nei Dan comes into play.

 

It’s not subtle, it usually feels at least a little unpleasant. It’s different to hypnosis because it has an immediate physiological effect - certain type of Qi transmission feels literally like touching an electric fence, for example.

 

I’ve seen an old teacher of mine project into a cow (who went from calm chewing to laying down on the ground, loudly mooing and spasming and twitching quite intensely).

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6 minutes ago, freeform said:

I’ve seen an old teacher of mine project into a cow (who went from calm chewing to laying down on the ground, loudly mooing and spasming and twitching quite intensely).

 

That's more like how a real experiment should look like. But there are still some concerns such as did the cow see the teacher, did the teacher make strange moves that upset the cow, considerations of statistical likelihood, etc.

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2 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

That's more like how a real experiment should look like. But there are still some concerns such as did the cow see the teacher, did the teacher make strange moves that upset the cow, considerations of statistical likelihood, etc.

 

Yeah - that’s if you want to test it ‘scientifically’. But when you’ve been regularly experiencing the effects of Qi transmission it just isn’t necessary for personal, experiential validation. Just like you don’t need love to be proven to know it exists.

 

In this case, however, it was one cow amongst several (unaffected) standing around in a field maybe 20m away, not paying attention to us (although they could see us probably). There was no big movements being made. And the cow’s experience looked to us (the students) very familiar :)

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It depends on the person and his (prior) world view how much proof one needs to accept something like chi projection as a fact.

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22 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

It depends on the person and his (prior) world view how much proof one needs to accept something like chi projection as a fact.

 

Agreed. I’m skeptical by nature, so it took a lot in my case.

 

Which is lucky because many teachers only have imaginary Qi. I’m glad I persevered!

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7 hours ago, wandelaar said:

 

Could you explain what you mean by that?

From Pg 1 

the internal alchemy scriptures can also be categorized according to the three primes. The heavenly prime scriptures deal with the great elixir, the earthly prime scriptures with the spirit elixir, the humanly prime with the golden elixir.

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8 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

It is because the force of the Qi projection Fq is inversely proportional to the square of the projection distance, according to the fundamental formula

 

Fq=N*(T1*T2)/D2

 

where N is the neidan school secret quotient

T1 is the truthiness of the neidan teacher

T2 is the truthiness  of the neidan student

D is the projection distance

 

Too bad that's not...

Quote

considerations of statistical likelihood, etc.

Otherwise it might be accurate! haha.

 

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1 minute ago, rideforever said:

 

Really = what exactly did you get out of it and how ?

He got a full money back Guarantee!

So all skeptical consumers will be happy shoppers!!

 

 

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7 hours ago, wandelaar said:

It depends on the person and his (prior) world view how much proof one needs to accept something like chi projection as a fact.

Does logic require proof?

Oh I forgot you Self-Censor!!

haha. Hilarious.

Talk about a logical oxymorn.

How to Censor your Self when in deep dreamless sleep!?!

You can't read this in deep dreamless sleep - so I guess you have self-censored as sleep walking!! haha.

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8 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Most people are at the laying the foundations stage and are not really doing internal alchemy.

 

 

Laying the Foundations are the first six chapters of "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and IMmortality" - it's a 16 chapter book.

So yes Laying the Foundation is definitely "Part of" doing internal alchemy.

 

 

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7 hours ago, freeform said:

 

That video is hypnosis.

 

Qi projection looks and feels quite different.

 

It’s not a high level skill either - way before Nei Dan comes into play.

 

It’s not subtle, it usually feels at least a little unpleasant. It’s different to hypnosis because it has an immediate physiological effect - certain type of Qi transmission feels literally like touching an electric fence, for example.

 

I’ve seen an old teacher of mine project into a cow (who went from calm chewing to laying down on the ground, loudly mooing and spasming and twitching quite intensely).

I have the VIDEO of that qi projection into the cow - on my bioenergy playlist.

I need to review the vids to find it.

 

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On 12/20/2018 at 1:37 PM, Miffymog said:

 

I've got to admit, even though 95% of the pages were blanked out, that was very interesting to look through ...

 

Hey on reading that edition that is not all blanked out - I discovered the author has the Double Reversal of the Reverted Elixir! haha. I did a blog post on it.

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2018/12/by-immersing-fire-under-water-one-may.html

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2 minutes ago, voidisyinyang said:

I have the VIDEO of that qi projection into the cow

7-10 years ago there was a spate of such demonstrations, on mainland and Taiwan, mostly  on cows,  by the scammers, aimed at the western and local qigongers. A Taiwan newspaper even did an expose on it. From what i gathered the cows were implanted with either a remote controlled  electric shocker or a poison syringe. Cows were selected due to their large bodies which make implantation unnoticeable.

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20 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Really = what exactly did you get out of it

a distinct confidence that doing things by the book can ensure a real long life

20 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

and how ?

i just did things by the book

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7 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

7-10 years ago there was a spate of such demonstrations, on mainland and Taiwan, mostly  on cows,  by the scammers, aimed at the western and local qigongers. A Taiwan newspaper even did an expose on it. From what i gathered the cows were implanted with either a remote controlled  electric shocker or a poison syringe. Cows were selected due to their large bodies which make implantation unnoticeable.

Interesting! I found the vid.  Oh it's in my playlist so it won't load here. Hold on - I'll "separate it" out again...

https://elixirfield.blogspot.com/2018/07/shaolin-technique-of-transferring-qi.html

While that's loading - the master shown is the Master of Jiang Feng.

The person who said he say this being done - was from this same lineage I think. This person - posting the comment above - may have even stayed at my house and saw my eyeballs pulsating! haha. Or at least that's what the person exclaimed at the time: Your Eyeballs are Pulsating!!

That's the vid.

 

More details on my blog post.

 

Please let me know what you think!

 

 

 

 

 

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