Theseekeroftruth1313

Who is Thoth and how much of what we attribute to him is actually his?

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So I have been looking but I don't think there is a thread on this topic specifically. Who was thoth, how much of what is his is actually his, and has anything that is actually his survived to today? As a sub question, was he aware of eastern practitioners and practices such as Mo pai, energy healing, etc? It just seems that my searches keep popping up the name of Hermes tristmagistus, and I am relatively sure that they are one and the same. There is enough wiggle room in  there tho that I'll accept if they are, in fact, not the same. 

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In brief, Thoth (a.k.a. Hermes Trismegistos) was considered to be the bringer of civilization in ancient Egypt. More specifically in regards to our topic, there is a body of philosophical as well as astrological, magical and alchemical texts attributed to him extant from Hellenistic Egypt, which earned him the reputation of having been  the founder of at least the 'Western' esoteric tradition.

 

These writings became extremely influential on Renaissance philosophers like Marsilio Ficino and Giordano Bruno. While at some stage they were recognized as having been composed at a much later date than originally believed, there is little doubt they reflect much of ancient Egyptian spirituality.

 

Who was Thoth really? Anybody investigating this question will be facing a thicket of fancy speculation, ancient myths and historic fact.

 

I think the best place to start is what the ancient Egyptians themselves had to say about Thoth. In their own view, Thoth is intrinsically linked to a time they referred to as Zep Tepi, a Golden Age, when the gods ruled directly on earth.

 

From chapter 44 of Graham Hancock's "Gods of the First Time":

 

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According to Heliopolitan theology, the nine original gods who appeared in Egypt in the First Time were Ra, Shu, Tefnut, Geb, Nut, Osiris, Isis, Nepthys and Set.

 

The offspring of these deities included well-known figures such as Horus and Anubis. In addition, other companies of gods were recognized, notably at Memphis and Hermopolis, where there were important and very ancient cults dedicated to Ptah and to Thoth.1

 

 

And:

 

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Renowned for her skilful use of witchcraft and magic, Isis was particularly remembered by the Ancient Egyptians as,

 

'strong of tongue', that is being in command of words of power 'which she knew with correct pronunciation, and halted not in her speech, and was perfect both in giving the command and in saying the word'.15

 In short, she was believed, by means of her voice alone, to be capable of bending reality and overriding the laws of physics. 

These same powers, though perhaps in greater degree, were attributed to the wisdom god Thoth who although not a member of the Heliopolitan Ennead is recognized in the Turin Papyrus and other ancient records as the sixth (or sometimes as the seventh) divine pharaoh of Egypt.

Frequently represented on temple and tomb walls as an ibis, or an ibis-headed man, Thoth was venerated as the regulative force responsible for all heavenly calculations and annotations, as the lord and multiplier of time, the inventor of the alphabet and the patron of magic. He was particularly associated with astronomy, mathematics, surveying and geometry, and was described as 'he who reckons in heaven, the counter of the stars and the measurer of the earth'.17

He was also regarded as a deity who understood the mysteries of 'all that is hidden under the heavenly vault', and who had the ability to bestow wisdom on selected individuals. It was said that he had inscribed his knowledge in secret books and hidden these about the earth, intending that they should be sought for by future generations but found 'only by the worthy' - who were to use their discoveries for the benefit of mankind.18 

What stands out most clearly about Thoth, therefore, in addition to his credentials as an ancient scientist, is his role as a benefactor and civilizer.19 In this respect he closely resembles his predecessor Osiris, the high god of the Pyramid Texts and the fourth divine pharaoh of Egypt,

'whose name becometh Sah [Orion], whose leg is long, and his stride extended, the President of the Land of the South ...'20

 

Edited by Michael Sternbach
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11 hours ago, Theseekeroftruth1313 said:

So I have been looking but I don't think there is a thread on this topic specifically. Who was thoth, how much of what is his is actually his, and has anything that is actually his survived to today? As a sub question, was he aware of eastern practitioners and practices such as Mo pai, energy healing, etc? It just seems that my searches keep popping up the name of Hermes tristmagistus, and I am relatively sure that they are one and the same. There is enough wiggle room in  there tho that I'll accept if they are, in fact, not the same. 

 

Thoth is the Egyptian god which is equated to Hermes/Mercury - god of wisdom, mathematics, writing, healing and so on.  He is a very ancient god whose worship was centred in Khemenu (City of Eight = Hermopolis).  He is usually depicted as either Ibis or baboon headed - and has links to the moon.

 

One of his titles is 'pa-wr, pa-wr, pa-wr' which translates as three times great - this title is reflected in the Hermetic figure of Hermes Trismegistus.  (i.e.  Hermes thrice great).  As Michael has already pointed out the Hermetic Canon was largely attributed to him - but was written probably in the first few centuries AD in Greek.  There's been a lot of dispute over the centuries over the attribution but I think most scholars would say that Hermeticism is a mix of Ancient Egyptian and Babylonian, Kabbalah, Greek mystery schools, early Christian mysticism and Gnosticism.  This thinking flourished in places like Alexandria in northern Egypt.

 

It is well known that Alexander the Great (who founded Alexandria) had an empire which extended into Afghanistan and Northern India.  Not only that but the Silk Route to China intersected with his empire.  So the chances of the Egypto-Greeks having contact with Daoism and other eastern thought is 100%.  So no doubt there was some cross fertilisation between these cultures.

 

 

Edited by Apech
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On 9/3/2018 at 6:13 AM, Apech said:

 

Thoth is the Egyptian god which is equated to Hermes/Mercury - god of wisdom, mathematics, writing, healing and so on.  He is a very ancient god whose worship was centred in Khemenu (City of Eight = Hermopolis).  He is usually depicted as either Ibis or baboon headed - and has links to the moon.

 

One of his titles is 'pa-wr, pa-wr, pa-wr' which translates as three times great - this title is reflected in the Hermetic figure of Hermes Trismegistus.  (i.e.  Hermes thrice great).  As Michael has already pointed out the Hermetic Canon was largely attributed to him - but was written probably in the first few centuries AD in Greek.  There's been a lot of dispute over the centuries over the attribution but I think most scholars would say that Hermeticism is a mix of Ancient Egyptian and Babylonian, Kabbalah, Greek mystery schools, early Christian mysticism and Gnosticism.  This thinking flourished in places like Alexandria in northern Egypt.

 

It is well known that Alexander the Great (who founded Alexandria) had an empire which extended into Afghanistan and Northern India.  Not only that but the Silk Route to China intersected with his empire.  So the chances of the Egypto-Greeks having contact with Daoism and other eastern thought is 100%.  So no doubt there was some cross fertilisation between these cultures.

 

 

But as the man(or God or Atlantian or etc.)did he write all these ancient works we attribute to him, or are we putting a catch all name to old esoteric writings? If someone that enlightened did in fact exist, wouldn't it be nice to know what is real and what's been misattributed. 

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2 minutes ago, Theseekeroftruth1313 said:

But as the man(or God or Atlantian or etc.)did he write all these ancient works we attribute to him, or are we putting a catch all name to old esoteric writings? If someone that enlightened did in fact exist, wouldn't it be nice to know what is real and what's been misattributed. 

 

 

No-one really knows - however it was usual in the ancient world to attribute texts to the most revered masters.  For instance many texts are attributed to Lao Tzu apart from the TTC, even though they are written in different historical periods and must be by different people - its an honorific thing.  But in most cases a key text is written by the named master and so it is likely a historical figure bearing that name did exist.  If you look at it in terms of a lineage of teachings then any text which supports or transmits that teaching could be legitimately included in that corpus.  What is important of course is the ideas and the spiritual energy in the system.

 

 

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Love this thread! Cleared up a lot for me thank you gents! Im currently reading the ‚ÄúThe Kyballion‚ÄĚ and just blown away.

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