Rakiel Posted April 24, 2017 improve as in better? I really can't say. However, I've noticed that when I sit in lotus it is much easier to do reverse breathing Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
opendao Posted April 24, 2017 When get into the secret door, the breath will disappear.  Will feel like whole body breathing No feeling of breathe.  Because your shi Shen disappear.  Why you don't know this?   it seems shi shen has gone completely through that secret door.  Such theories don't bring any clarity.  Air breathing is not the alchemy and cannot give any alchemy results like Taixi (Fetus breathing). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudHands Posted April 24, 2017  Do you have more reference on this? Who said it and when/where? About the "ocean" in LDT? I always thought it was kidneys in pre-natal "ocean" state. Thank you.  Qihai Sea of Qi  http://www.acupuncture-points.org/conception-vessel-6.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[email protected] Posted April 24, 2017 No feeling of breathe. Â Because your shi Shen disappear. Â Why you don't know this? Â I thought you should know that. Â If one's mind is not dead, dao heart will not appear. Â If ordinary breathe doesn't stop, tai breathe will not start. Â Then it would be difficult to have the pure Qi of the world. Â And can't be one with the heaven. I have heard about it, but personally don't have a tai breath. That is the reason why I am only asking about it, but don't write any statement on this. Again, this kind of breathing differs from our common one and this was the reason why I asked you about it - have you achieved any kind of breathing that you described in your previous posts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uroboros Posted April 26, 2017 For newer practitioners, I think it is quite important to specify WHERE the LDT is / point of focus. We all could be talking about totally different points of reference. Â Some books say the anchor point is QiHai acupuncture point, some say it is in the center of the belly. Some say the entire lower belly. Â In my own experience, I started at the external (the lower belly/ QiHai) and eventually the deeper layers opened and showed themselves as they pleased. Â Some excellent advice my old Teacher gave me was to make the LDT a part of your every day existence, include it in every activity you do. Move from it. Â Anywho, would anyone else like to chime in on their way? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rakiel Posted April 26, 2017 I started with a more general area; but eventually I 'found it'. I recall Robert Peng mentioning in an interview that you should pay attention to it in everyday circumstances, for example to say "good morning dantian", or tell your dantian to "awaken" before you practice; so that you are giving it life of its own 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dioni Posted April 26, 2017 I have read that is 1.3 inch below the belly button, but then John Chang said that everyone has a different position for the LDT, for example he mentioned that indians have upper/lower (i don't remember which one of these) than the chinese. I still don't feel it, but i focus in the area under the belly button.. so as you said with the practice it should reveal to me soon or later Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sagebrush Posted April 26, 2017 (edited) ,, Edited April 28, 2017 by sagebrush Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[email protected] Posted April 27, 2017 I have read that is 1.3 inch below the belly button, but then John Chang said that everyone has a different position for the LDT, for example he mentioned that indians have upper/lower (i don't remember which one of these) than the chinese. I still don't feel it, but i focus in the area under the belly button.. so as you said with the practice it should reveal to me soon or later I think that just concentrating of your mind on the ldt area is not productive. Ldt should be activated by practice but not by our imagination. It's like you begin to imagine that you have a solid ldt, next you imagine strong energy flows in the body and begin to think you have a progress in practice... But the only thing you have is a progress in your imagination, and maybe some deviations in qi flows. Rgrds, Ilya 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dioni Posted April 27, 2017 I think that just concentrating of your mind on the ldt area is not productive. Ldt should be activated by practice but not by our imagination. It's like you begin to imagine that you have a solid ldt, next you imagine strong energy flows in the body and begin to think you have a progress in practice... But the only thing you have is a progress in your imagination, and maybe some deviations in qi flows. Rgrds, Ilya Yeh I don't know how much is productive imagination in Daoist practice. Focus and breathing is the practice or there is something else to add to the cultivation of the LDT? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Papayapple Posted April 27, 2017 I think it's better to kind of feel the breath going to the sides and back of your belly, so that it expands in all directions, and sometimes I can feel that LDT is like a flame blowing hot air into the aerostat. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[email protected] Posted April 28, 2017 Yeh I don't know how much is productive imagination in Daoist practice. Focus and breathing is the practice or there is something else to add to the cultivation of the LDT?Correct taoist practice doesn't use imagination or any concentration of mind anywhere in the body. The focus is targeted on the exercises that involve energy movement using relaxation and some physical movements. Tho is my experience, but you can ask other participants. Look at near threads where Taoist alchemy principles were discussed.Rgrds, Ilya 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted April 28, 2017 Some masters advice to use a reverse breathing when focusing on the LDT: belly in - air in; belly out - air out. Does anyone practice that? As it is an unnatural breathing I would like an opinion about it In many instances when doing Qi Gong one is doing "reverse breathing". When you stretch backward in an inhale you are doing a reverse breath as the stomach muscles must contract as you lean back. There are many other positions that require contraction during breath.  As a general practice one should not focus on reverse breathing. This would come under the heading of over engineering leading to deviations.  Also - it is not necessary to guide the energies in Qi Gong - breathing into the LTD and proper technique is all that is necessary. The energy will find all the channels without doing - and at a much faster wholistic and natural pace.  The state of no breath Awaken has mentioned is difficult to relate - it is not comparable to no breath state in meditation. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted April 29, 2017 (edited) A) If the attention is put on belly, doing some circulation or whatever = Is what anyone can do from start.  B)Where you unlock things so you get to do things what you couldn't previously. The entire approach is different to A.  but there is component what is same for both. When you start off, you start dry on both, "don't have melted water and gotten it hot and air moving"(whatever). So doing A you don't learn functions or principles while at B you do that. Edited April 29, 2017 by allinone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[email protected] Posted April 29, 2017 Any combinations of breathing and energy movement are mostly product of our mind. Real qi gong doesn't deal with sending energy with your mind. Energy starts to move after the body is relaxed, the channels are open, you feel energy. These conditions can be achieved with correct exersises. Rgrds, Ilya 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wu Ming Jen Posted April 29, 2017 Breathing WITH the LTD. (moving inward on inhale and expanding with exhale.)  Taoist breathing is mixing pre natal and post natal energies The belly should become warm. This method of breathing massages the internal organs and strengthens the core when paired with the anal lock method on inhale and release on exhale..  Taoist breathing, womb breathing, martial breathing, reverse breathing all names for the same thing. Tortoise breathing is accomplished after years of practice.  Putting your mind on chi flow causes stagnation of energy. Many methods in the beginning but once we have feeling and awareness we can drop the methods. like using a boat to get across the river, once across  you do not need the boat any more. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted May 1, 2017 You using strength to stay awake, get tired you fall asleep. Breath is not used unless you have realized out of two eye one of them is true and other is illusion/appearances.  But anyway we work with the strength part at first to realize that we can't get things done. Idea is to give up struggle before the strength is depleted. Its done by noticing what is permanent/real. That permanent thing knows that you can't get things done alone, that means you need help and that help is breath. Anything what rises, appears is breath.  Breathing to ldt is mytho-logical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[email protected] Posted May 9, 2017 Taoist breathing is mixing pre natal and post natal energies The belly should become warm. As I know post and pre heaven qi don't mix with each other, because they belong to different levels of energy. There are ways to cultivate one and another kinds of qi, but differently from each other. Moreover, preheaven qi cultivation is possible only in Taoist alchemy, but not qi gong, and this is the most secret method. Rgrds, Ilya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) the air(substance)Â rising from belly and the essence mind grasps to world will come together and then fly away. A food for gods heaven. Â respectively your fields will yield more. Edited May 9, 2017 by allinone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[email protected] Posted May 11, 2017 Every body has its own fields of energy, so called cinnabar fields. They prevent qi from unlimited leaving the body. Mostly qi is wasted on usual activities, tensions, sex and emotions, but not as uncontrolled rising to the "heaven gods". Rgrds, Ilya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted May 11, 2017 (edited) Any combinations of breathing and energy movement are mostly product of our mind. Real qi gong doesn't deal with sending energy with your mind. Energy starts to move after the body is relaxed, the channels are open, you feel energy. These conditions can be achieved with correct exersises. Rgrds, Ilya This is actually not true - with respect to the chain of this conversation:Â At even the most subtle uncertain levels of thinking / knowing / imagining energy movement, movement happens. And it is why becoming "good at it" can create so many problems because prior to understanding as a master, students should allow the practice to initiate the various flows and openings. Â With this said however, students are generally encouraged to "imagine breathing into the lower dan tien (LDT) - obviously we do not have lungs in our LDT. This is very similar to students of Yoga who are encouraged to imagine breathing into the abdomen. Â The power of what one sees in their mind whether intentionally or consciously is very powerful and not some simple whimsy - though this is nothing to fear - but tossing it out as insignificant and infertile mind gas is to not see a primary aspect of that which you are. Edited May 11, 2017 by Spotless 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dioni Posted May 15, 2017 I did reverse breathing into LDT for few days, and I started having a bit of stomach ache and a general bad feeling. Can they be correlated? That didn't happen when I was doing the natural breathing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[email protected] Posted May 15, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Dioni said: I did reverse breathing into LDT for few days, and I started having a bit of stomach ache and a general bad feeling. Can they be correlated? That didn't happen when I was doing the natural breathing This is just natural approval to what I wrote earlier - good qi gong does not deal with imagination or exercises with changing the manner of breathing. We were born and grew up with natural way to breath, and then smb. comes with the idea that there is so called reverse way to breath... do you see the joke? I don't say that you all are totally wrong, I just try to notice that unknown exercises with our vitality can be critical to health. Rgrds, Ilya Edited May 15, 2017 by [email protected] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idquest Posted May 15, 2017 49 minutes ago, Dioni said: I did reverse breathing into LDT for few days, and I started having a bit of stomach ache and a general bad feeling. Can they be correlated? That didn't happen when I was doing the natural breathing. Reversed breathing could be dangerous if done incorrectly. If you decide doing it by your own without supervision, make sure that your diaphragm goes well down on inhale. If you can't feel it go down, best to refrain from reversed breathing until you can feel it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites