Can you tell me about Condensed Breathing

[thelerner]

Condensed breathing came up in another thread.  I don't know much about it.  I assume its related to 'packing' exercises which are considered advanced and/or dangerous.

 

How large an umbrella does the term carry?  Is 9 Bottle breathing considered condensed? 

 

I do Wim Hof method which has 30 to 40 deep quick breaths followed by a long hold done after exhalation.  Would that be considered a form of condensed breathing?

 

Ultimately I'm looking for a definition, styles, warnings, benefits.. pros and cons.

 

 

[dwai]

Condensed breathing came up in another thread. I don't know much about it. I assume its related to 'packing' exercises which are considered advanced and/or dangerous.

 

How large an umbrella does the term carry? Is 9 Bottle breathing considered condensed?

 

I do Wim Hof method which has 30 to 40 deep quick breaths followed by a long hold done after exhalation. Would that be considered a form of condensed breathing?

 

Ultimately I'm looking for a definition, styles, warnings, benefits.. pros and cons.

Yes it is dangerous if you don't have proper instruction. It is not possible to get good is instruction from either videos, books or a shady guy whose name rhymes with Tary flyman. Only way is under direct supervision of a qualified teacher.

 

The way I was taught, we never hold the breath. In fact breath is only a preliminary aid. The mind intent is what is pulling and condensing.

 

Benefit is it converts qi to Jin and stores it in your marrow. Cons are it is very possible to pack "bad" stuff in. Never do condensing if you're angry, sad, or experiencing any negative emotion. This can cause mental illnesses as well as blood diseases or cancer.

 

We only do condensing (in temple style taiji) after several years of practice in taiji forms and standing meditations.

 

Also Jin condensing is to be done after warming up with taiji form work and standing and you are feeling empty. Never do more than a few minutes at a time.

Edited April 6, 2016 by dwai

[Phoenixrising]

Very intrigued with your info, senior Dwai. I will work hard to perfect my Forms (I am doing the 42 form Yang style Taiji). Hoping to learn more later on this Condensing Breath technique.

[Aeran]

I remember reading a bit about it in a brochure from Clyman's system, as I recall it was pretty much just pore breathing into the bones, but it's been a while since I saw it.

[exorcist_1699]

A condensed Mind will  give rise to a condensed breathing , other skills or technique are unrelated or  trivial;   if a condensing breathing  arises naturally , then hardly will you find  it hazardous . Most dangers are due to our intervention ,  our overdoing something in that  process , which is contrary to the character of qi ,  contrary to what it should behave...

Edited April 11, 2016 by exorcist_1699

[Spotless]

It is common to do a number of condensed breathing techniques without knowing it and certainly with no harm.

 

In Qi Gong there are specific condensed breathing movements but there are also numerous ones that do not appear so.

Imagine breathing in while raising your palms up your front channels and overhead while going into a strong leaned backed arched position - you are doing condensed breathing at this point - compressed condensed breathing. (Think about it - in order to be arched back your stomach muscles must contract while you inhale - and then you hold that while in an arched position).

 

Many yoga postures do this as well though generally not in the same way as Qi Gong.

 

General caution regarding breathing techniques is a good thing but if you are somewhat sedentary breathing techniques can be vary useful for a number of reasons. If you have piles of energy and are jumping up and down then certain kundalini breathing techniques can be extremely dangerous while some calming balancing alternating nostril breathing can do wonders.

 

Some of us are well inclined to say that this sort of thing should only be done with a teacher and a master one at that - I tend to regard this as true but there are very few masters and so many in the west simply cannot bring themselves to attend anything that resembles a group - though that is where you will find many of the great masters - they tend to attract lots of students though not always.

 

Given the distain for groups and the penchant to hide in these endeavors - perhaps we should caution less and allow for more mishaps - we are a pretty resilient species. The biggest caution to doing in home private self practice is the proclivity to pick out what you like and discard what you don't - resistance is not a good regulator and you will invariably discard some of the most valuable things you should do and consistently do a greater share of what you should not do so much of.

 

Breathing exercises make things happen - and for so many - something "happening" is totally cool and Must be good.

Drinking lots of booze makes things happen - like running into trees - but it can also result in creating a child or warming up next to a fire. In our messy lives learning about breathing is generally a good thing and condensed breathing is simply a form of it - the dosage is something to research.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Spotless

[dwai]

It is common to do a number of condensed breathing techniques without knowing it and certainly with no harm.

 

In Qi Gong there are specific condensed breathing movements but there are also numerous ones that do not appear so.

Imagine breathing in while raising your palms up your front channels and overhead while going into a strong leaned backed arched position - you are doing condensed breathing at this point - compressed condensed breathing. (Think about it - in order to be arched back your stomach muscles must contract while you inhale - and then you hold that while in an arched position).

 

 

Many yoga postures do this as well though generally not in the same way as Qi Gong.

 

General caution regarding breathing techniques is a good thing but if you are somewhat sedentary breathing techniques can be vary useful for a number of reasons. If you have piles of energy and are jumping up and down then certain kundalini breathing techniques can be extremely dangerous while some calming balancing alternating nostril breathing can do wonders.

 

Some of us are well inclined to say that this sort of thing should only be done with a teacher and a master one at that - I tend to regard this as true but there a very few masters and so many in the west simply cannot being themselves to attend anything that resembles a group - though that is where you will find many of the great masters - they tend to attract lots of students though not always.

 

Given the distain for groups and the penchant to hide in these endeavors - perhaps we should caution less and allow for more mishaps - we are a pretty resilient species. The biggest caution to in-I ome private self practice is the proclivity to pick out what you like and discard what you don't - resistance is not a good regulator and you will invariably discard some of the most valuable things you should do and consistently do a greater share of what you should not do so much of.

 

Breathing exercises make things happen - and for so many - something "happening" is totally cool and Must be good.

Drinking lots of booze makes things happen - like running into trees - but it can also result in creating a child or warming up next to a fire. In our messy lives learning about breathing is generally a good thing and condensed breathing is simply a form of it - the dosage is something to research.

Hi Spotless,

 

This is different from what I was referring to as "Condensing Breathing". In the way I was referring to, Condensing happens as a result of the mind-intent condensing the Qi into the bone marrow. 

 

Of course, I do acknowledge that different people/systems have different definitions of condensing breathing means. 

 

I have done pranayama quite a bit and never have I felt that kind of condensing happen. Yes, pranayama especially with breath holding builds pressure and accelerates the energy a lot. But it is not condensed into the marrow. Depending on the type of mudra being held and the ratio of inhalation:hold:exhalation, different type of "acceleration of prana" is achieved. But even that is very dangerous when done without preparation. My Yoga teacher made me do 6 months of spinal column purification...repeatedly doing the same sequence of movements (not even yoga asanas) before starting with asanas. He then made me do the asanas for a good 6 more months before introducing breath work. He then made me only do inhalation and exhalation before introducing inner hold. Then after a few months of that, he introduced outer hold. 

 

When I was doing the spinal purification, I would feel intense pressure in the head. If I over did something, it would have very nasty consequences indeed, i have no doubt about that. 

 

Condensing breathing when done right does not require physical exertion. Nor does it require contraction of muscles etc. 

 

I don't agree with your suggestion that we should let mishaps happen. That is very inappropriate advice, imho. These "mishaps" can lead to very bad consequences. 

[Spotless]

Hi Spotless,

 

This is different from what I was referring to as "Condensing Breathing". In the way I was referring to, Condensing happens as a result of the mind-intent condensing the Qi into the bone marrow. 

 

Of course, I do acknowledge that different people/systems have different definitions of condensing breathing means. 

 

I have done pranayama quite a bit and never have I felt that kind of condensing happen. Yes, pranayama especially with breath holding builds pressure and accelerates the energy a lot. But it is not condensed into the marrow. Depending on the type of mudra being held and the ratio of inhalation:hold:exhalation, different type of "acceleration of prana" is achieved. But even that is very dangerous when done without preparation. My Yoga teacher made me do 6 months of spinal column purification...repeatedly doing the same sequence of movements (not even yoga asanas) before starting with asanas. He then made me do the asanas for a good 6 more months before introducing breath work. He then made me only do inhalation and exhalation before introducing inner hold. Then after a few months of that, he introduced outer hold. 

 

When I was doing the spinal purification, I would feel intense pressure in the head. If I over did something, it would have very nasty consequences indeed, i have no doubt about that. 

 

Condensing breathing when done right does not require physical exertion. Nor does it require contraction of muscles etc. 

 

I don't agree with your suggestion that we should let mishaps happen. That is very inappropriate advice, imho. These "mishaps" can lead to very bad consequences. 

 

In my Qi Gong we do many bone marrow condensed breathing techniques - this is true of many things in Qi Gng in general.

We definitely do not include the idea of Mind.

 

Regarding mishaps - you might want to reread my post - I was not exactly advocating mishaps - but I know of whole groups of people out the scared to try so many things that prescribing some mushrooms would be a good thing. dosage is the problem and that is what I ended the post on.

 

Regarding :

"Condensed breathing when done right does not require physical exertion. Nor does it require contraction of muscles."

This is true for your dogma - but in reality their are many forms - for bone marrow I take my teaching from Shaolin, a 33rd generation Elite Grand Master Monk and former head teacher of Qi Gong and Kung Fu at Shaolin Temple.

 

 

[dwai]

In my Qi Gong we do many bone marrow condensed breathing techniques - this is true of many things in Qi Gng in general.We definitely do not include the idea of Mind.Regarding mishaps - you might want to reread my post - I was not exactly advocating mishaps - but I know of whole groups of people out the scared to try so many things that prescribing some mushrooms would be a good thing. dosage is the problem and that is what I ended the post on.Regarding :"Condensed breathing when done right does not require physical exertion. Nor does it require contraction of muscles."This is true for your dogma - but in reality their are many forms - for bone marrow I take my teaching from Shaolin, a 33rd generation Elite Grand Master Monk and former head teacher of Qi Gong and Kung Fu at Shaolin Temple.

Of course. Like I said, many call many things condensing breathing. I was referring to a daoist neigong practice

[sillybearhappyhoneyeater]

Can anyone point me toward a traditional Chinese source on condensed breathing either from classical or modern documents?

[Spotless]

Can anyone point me toward a traditional Chinese source on condensed breathing either from classical or modern documents?

You have the Shaolin Temple Quanfa Institute up in Toronto - the founder there came over from China with my master - they can clarify it for you and possibly lead you to original sourcing.

 

Words to describe it could be compressed breathing, reverse breathing, condensed breathing, bone marrow breathing - I'm not certain what words they use but this is very common and it is in many of the forms.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Spotless

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

Having read Spotless and Dwai's responses.

 

I agree with both of them!

 

...

[Spotless]

Good to see you Captain!

[Wells]

.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Spotless]

Xi sui jing?

Shi Guo Song

34 Generation Shaolin Temple Warrior Monk

 

http://www.canadashaolintemple.com/master-shi-guo-song

 

My Master:

Shi Yong Yao

Weidong Liu

33 Generation Shaolin Temple Warrior Monk

Edited April 20, 2016 by Spotless

[Mudfoot]

Thank (efter higher power of choice here) for the editing function. Thus one can remove the posts that are not useful. ;-)

Edited April 28, 2016 by Mudfoot

[Spotless]

Thank you for the clarification