zen-bear

"Meditation can lead people into possible psychosis," according by Dr. Miguel Farias, author of "The Buddha Pill: Can Meditation Change You?"

Recommended Posts

It is Very common for many of the finest teachers all over the world to ask participants of meditation retreats if they have had a history of mental illness or problems regarding such aspects of their lives.

 

This is not for liability reasons, it is not in order to ferret out "problem types" and it is not for any insular reasons.

 

Meditation will open energy channels, reduce dissipation of energy, give great rest to areas that have not rested (and therefore they will regain energy and reserves) - all these things and many more will create what is often a surge of freshness and vitality and presence. But this surge can hit deviations and elevate them beyond the matrix of compressions that heretofore kept them under the covers. 

 

This is only one easily identified concern and well laid out in most real teachings but often overlooked by teachers and students in the haste to get to some validation of "all this stuff" being learned.

 

The not so obvious is meditation being mistaken for "disconnect" and "isolation". Another not so obvious problem is the very real encounter of one who has reached very high levels of meditation - meaning the very pure simple form - and actual physical changes at extremely subtle levels take place. In these experiences it can at some point seem like loosing ones mind, loosing ones ability to remember, short term memory loss and the onset of Alzheimer's. It can be extremely disorienting and easy to loose ones place in brain fog and fear.

 

One of the most wonderful reasons for the assanas in Yoga is to stretch out through ones bodies the changes that are taking place energetically. To prepare for the changes that are about to take place, and to help in the intergration of the dietary changes and behavioral changes that the student is expected to undertake.

 

Meditation is not some cardboard label attached to a product that has a staid message and a singular purpose - it does not have a purpose. In the passageway of mirrors and mists in the transcendence in meditation great peace will be found and un-found.

Queezy times - glorious times - doubtful times - angry times and mountains of release and revisiting - knowing and not knowing.

 

Where there was once sanctity in ignorance there is now a thousand cans of worms - opening often just when it felt like you were past "them". 

 

Meditation - getting to meditation - many harrowing stories - the experiences are vast. Often it is not so much so called baggage as much as the depth of ones transcendence - "baggage" is part of living - confronting it intentionally is not the common fair of most of mankind.

 

 

Edited by Spotless
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, if I would accept the task of trying to guide a person through the confused layers of the mind, I wouldn't start with meditation. 

 

If you are going somewhere, using meditation as a tool for investigation, you need a point of origin. Somewhere to go back to, like a cabin in the Woods that is in a known location. 

 

This is easiest done by simple movements. Could be yoga, qigong or IMA. Not the kind that focus on Qi, you want to focus on the physical body. 

The external six harmonies, balance, stuff like that is very useful.

 

When you have laid a foundation, meditation becomes useful. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meditation is a personal, beautiful action. I don't know how anybody, no matter where they are educated, can comment on such a personal experience and call it hazardous for all people in general.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To answer the doctors question, you don't take a pill and no it doesn't change you. It's remembering who you are. It remembering what the universe is.

Edited by Adia
Misspelling
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the key question is what type of meditation you are practicing. I come from the Pure Land tradition, so meditation for me is a supplementary practice. I mostly practice anapana, which is a very gentle, forgiving practice that can develop quiessence. 

 

I haven't practice vipassana as taught by Goenka, but it strikes me as a very demanding method, which should be reserved for those more advanced on their path. Of course, forgive my ignorance and feel free to correct me.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this kind of "logic".

It follows from this kind of argumentation that if 7% of people exercising in gyms or sports in general are injured during the activity then all people must stop exercising!

Oh wait!:P

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Zork said:

I love this kind of "logic".

It follows from this kind of argumentation that if 7% of people exercising in gyms or sports in general are injured during the activity then all people must stop exercising!

Oh wait!:P

 

The modern "meditation" we have now is frankly what confirms his morbid drivel. What meditation actually is should never be spoken of in the same context as Farias opening his mouth or what you find on "meditation" apps or yoga calisthenics studios. 

Edited by Earl Grey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what percentage of psychology PhDs would be diagnosed with psychosis if they all evaluated each other. The battle of prickles vs goo goes on.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, guest25 said:

I wonder what percentage of psychology PhDs would be diagnosed with psychosis if they all evaluated each other. The battle of prickles vs goo goes on.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/19/2016 at 9:53 AM, Karl said:

What is the premise behind whatever meditation is being embarked upon ?

For me, there is no premise.  Just sitting to sit. to be here. that's it.

On 2/19/2016 at 9:05 AM, zen-bear said:

I had long hard laughs from reading this article, for it is a prime example of the pseudo-scientific horse shit that gets circulated on the internet.

LOL. I completely agree.  as far as "psychosis" goes,  that depends on your world view.  I have seen many odd things, experienced disembodied voices, and other direct experiences in my years of sitting.  to term this as a "mental illness"  belies the core western rational materialistic belief system, and not true science. 

 

My definition of mental illness is to ask myself,  "am i able to differentiate my meditation experiences, form those of the so-called day to day world, and what other people usually experience?  and my answer is yes. 

 

Do these meditation experience interfere with my life, family, work life in any way?  and my answer is No. 

 

Lastly, there is some evidence that folks who are developing a real mental illness or have the potential to develop a mental illness in the near future,  can have a hallucinogenic drug experience, that acts like a trip wire for something that would develop in the near future anyway.  I think that meditation can also act like a trip wire for folks who have possible chemical imbalances already present in there brains. but that percent is so low, as to not represent the vast population of people who meditate.  all in all this Doctor guy is full of donkey shit.  thanks for the post.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Zen Pig said:

For me, there is no premise.  Just sitting to sit. to be here. that's it.

LOL. I completely agree.  as far as "psychosis" goes,  that depends on your world view.  I have seen many odd things, experienced disembodied voices, and other direct experiences in my years of sitting. 

 

My definition of mental illness is to ask myself,  "am i able to differentiate my meditation experiences, form those of the so-called day to day world, and what other people usually experience?  and my answer is yes. 

In that case you do not have an impaired reality testning, and neither the ICF nor the DSM will call your experiences psychotic. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Psychosys is a state where the person blindly believe things which are created and put forth by their own mind.

 

Need for external affection, for instance, can manifest as the person with psychosys seeing the image of a person in front of him and believing this person loves him unconditionaly. All kinds of rationalization are brought forth to protect this belief, as the person ignores all possible clues and evidence to keep believing on what it wants to believe.

 

Once this need is removed, the "person" (projection) disappears.

 

On another words, it is the inhability to control the skill of projecting desires and ideas in the "mind's eye". As people train their minds, this skill becomes stronger, so someone who wasn't able to project its desires with form and shape, suddenly becomes able to do it.

 

The blind belief spreads and this person enters a psychotic state.

 

So, yes, meditation can trigger psychosys. Anything that makes your mind more powerfull will bring forth your inner demons. Without proper care, and that means self-discovery and mental exploration of the ego, as well as its flexibilization and eventual dissolution, people who have very stiff egos will find themselves on the borders of meditation.

 

The "dark night of the soul" is a consequence of empowering the mind to the point where it realizes its own emptyness without giving it the proper gidance to find the Void.

 

Not that 5 minutes of daily meditation to "calm down" will get you there. But if you truly commit yourself to meditation, your mind will have to go through a transformative process. Having no guidance in this, you'll probably find these kinds of problems. A high level of intuition or a good guide are needed in order to avoid losing a few lives as a spirit with a inborn fragmented (psychotic) ego.

Edited by Desmonddf
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Desmonddf said:

Psychosys is a state where the person blindly believe things which are created and put forth by their own mind.

I think you just defined humanity.  LOL :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mudfoot said:

In that case you do not have an impaired reality testning, and neither the ICF nor the DSM will call your experiences psychotic. 

yes, this is true, but the reality of talking to a psychologist, is very different in my experience.  retired from our local university about a year ago,  and actually describing an experience of transcendence, of seeing entities, hearing voices, seeing trees grow out of the ground in front of you (have no idea how this happens),  never met someone who would not have a sort of knee jerk reaction, and rubber stamp me as disillusion at best, which just means that we are all humans,  even ones with diplomas framed in there offices.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the greater difference between the mystical and the phatologic is if you either experience and grow, being capable of taking things with a grain of salt (keeping a little bit of well-being and open-mindness), or if you defend that what you saw happened how you think it happened litteraly.

 

As someone who uses enteogens with a certain frequency, I'm more than aware that many of the things I see there are a product of my mind. But as someone who also is a medium, I've frequent contact with other people who see things which are either exactly the same or very closely related to many things I've seen.

 

So, am I "seeing the truth" when I'm under the effects of the enteogen? Maybe, maybe not.

 

Am I "just tripping", even when others saw the same thing, some didn't even used it? Maybe, maybe not.

 

I'm collecting data and, just as how brains were meant to act, taking belief decisions based on statistics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you see trees popping out of the ground you probably are hallucinating. If you refuse to leave your home because you are afraid to be impailed by one of those trees, psychosis seems to be a relevant diagnosis. 

 

And someone in Mental Health care sort of have to check out if someone with hallucinations is on the verge of developing psychosis, so their first option is not to see it as the reactions of a healthy mind. 

 

On the other hand, many people hear voices, see weird things that cannot be externally validated, or have derealization or depersonalization experiences without this being diagnosed as psychotic reactions. 

 

Unfortunately, sometimes the diagnos comes to fast. 

 

In my neck of the woods, we follow younger persons more than six months before the diagnosis schizophrenia is used, just to make sure it is not something else. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites