Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[ralis]

So are you then stating that the world "exists" and it is separate from Buddha? Or buddhamind? That one is sort of "in" a body that would be on our planet? Also, do you see that as a Buddhist perspective or your own? Thanks.

 

Are we going to fall back into the old solipsism debate. Or, the whole universe is one giant Buddha mind. Or, another choice would be that all phenomena are part of the Buddha's dream? My point is that even calling it Buddha mind is an objectification which is an error.

 

These arguments are very boring!

[ralis]

Digital reality. Perhaps this is the nature of mind?

 

 

 

[Jeff]

Our Natural State seemingly pervades our body besides hair & nails.

For that reason, they remain in case of Rainbow Body.

 

From the Avatamsaka Sutra...

 

Great bodhisattvas have no attachment to Buddha and do not develop attachments;

they have no attachment to the teachings and do not develop attachments; they have

no attachment to lands and do not develop attachments; they have no attachments

to sentient beings and do not develop attachments. They do not see that there are

sentient beings, yet they carry on educational activity, civilizing and teaching ways

of liberation; they do not give up the practices of bodhisattvas with great compassion

and great commitment. Seeing buddhas and hearing their teachings, they act accordingly;

trusting the buddhas they plant roots of goodness, ceaselessly honoring and serving them.

 

They are able to shake infinite worlds in the ten directions by spiritual powers; their minds are

broad, being equal to the cosmos. They know various explanations of truth, they know how

many sentient beings there are, they know the differences among sentient beings, they know

the birth of suffering, they know the extinction of suffering; while knowing all acts are like reflected

images, they carry out the deeds of bodhisattvas. They sever the root of all subjection to birth.

 

They carry out practices of bodhisattvas for the sole purpose of saving sentient beings and yet

do not practice anything. Conforming to the essential nature of all buddhas, they develop a mind

like an immense mountain. They know all falsehood and delusion, and enter the door of omniscience.

Their knowledge and wisdom are broad and vast and unshakable, due to the attainment of true enlightenment.

This is the insight of practical knowledge of equally saving all sentient beings in the ocean of birth and death.

[Apech]

Are there others..?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

 

 

That allegory is not saying what you are saying.  That's why I asked.  Buddhism does not say what you are saying - so I guess it must be Bon teaching if you got it from those books.

[ralis]

From the Avatamsaka Sutra... Great bodhisattvas have no attachment to Buddha and do not develop attachments; they have no attachment to the teachings and do not develop attachments; they have no attachment to lands and do not develop attachments; they have no attachments to sentient beings and do not develop attachments. They do not see that there are sentient beings, yet they carry on educational activity, civilizing and teaching ways of liberation; they do not give up the practices of bodhisattvas with great compassion and great commitment. Seeing buddhas and hearing their teachings, they act accordingly; trusting the buddhas they plant roots of goodness, ceaselessly honoring and serving them. They are able to shake infinite worlds in the ten directions by spiritual powers; their minds are broad, being equal to the cosmos. They know various explanations of truth, they know how many sentient beings there are, they know the differences among sentient beings, they know the birth of suffering, they know the extinction of suffering; while knowing all acts are like reflected images, they carry out the deeds of bodhisattvas. They sever the root of all subjection to birth. They carry out practices of bodhisattvas for the sole purpose of saving sentient beings and yet do not practice anything. Conforming to the essential nature of all buddhas, they develop a mind like an immense mountain. They know all falsehood and delusion, and enter the door of omniscience. Their knowledge and wisdom are broad and vast and unshakable, due to the attainment of true enlightenment. This is the insight of practical knowledge of equally saving all sentient beings in the ocean of birth and death.

 

 

The world needs are more saviors? Furthermore, if their work was so important and these dudes are so powerful, then why is the world in such a state of disaster at the moment?

Edited January 6, 2016 by ralis

[Apech]

From the Avatamsaka Sutra... Great bodhisattvas have no attachment to Buddha and do not develop attachments; they have no attachment to the teachings and do not develop attachments; they have no attachment to lands and do not develop attachments; they have no attachments to sentient beings and do not develop attachments. They do not see that there are sentient beings, yet they carry on educational activity, civilizing and teaching ways of liberation; they do not give up the practices of bodhisattvas with great compassion and great commitment. Seeing buddhas and hearing their teachings, they act accordingly; trusting the buddhas they plant roots of goodness, ceaselessly honoring and serving them. They are able to shake infinite worlds in the ten directions by spiritual powers; their minds are broad, being equal to the cosmos. They know various explanations of truth, they know how many sentient beings there are, they know the differences among sentient beings, they know the birth of suffering, they know the extinction of suffering; while knowing all acts are like reflected images, they carry out the deeds of bodhisattvas. They sever the root of all subjection to birth. They carry out practices of bodhisattvas for the sole purpose of saving sentient beings and yet do not practice anything. Conforming to the essential nature of all buddhas, they develop a mind like an immense mountain. They know all falsehood and delusion, and enter the door of omniscience. Their knowledge and wisdom are broad and vast and unshakable, due to the attainment of true enlightenment. This is the insight of practical knowledge of equally saving all sentient beings in the ocean of birth and death.

 

Ok Jeff now sum that up into the point you want to make.

[Aetherous]

The mind on its own simply can't grasp the essence of Buddhist teachings from books. It needs blessings in order to realize through some direct experience of what's being spoken of. It's like that idea, how could you understand what chocolate is by someone's description without ever having tried it? Once you try it, a moment later all prior descriptions become very clear, and then you can talk easily about it with others.

Without actually understanding the teachings in this way, what seems like accuracy from reading books is very far off from the truth. This is even the case when a realized and qualified teacher writes the book...the problem is our own minds, not theirs. Having an actual qualified teacher in some form (I think online teachings work), and also doing the practices they tell you to do (for instance, which deal with the bodhisattvas), brings that blessing and taste of it.

This is just how I've noticed that Buddhism works...I'm far from the level of dzogchen practitioner. But better to go this route than to waste time only reading books and thinking you get it; go the route that the qualified teachers prescribe. The more you can listen and learn from them directly, the better.

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[ralis]

The mind on its own simply can't grasp the essence of Buddhist teachings from books. It needs blessings in order to realize through some direct experience of what's being spoken of. It's like that idea, how could you understand what chocolate is by someone's description without ever having tried it? Once you try it, a moment later all prior descriptions become very clear, and then you can talk easily about it with others.

 

Without actually understanding the teachings in this way, what seems like accuracy from reading books is very far off from the truth. This is even the case when a realized and qualified teacher writes the book...the problem is our own minds, not theirs. Having an actual qualified teacher in some form (I think online teachings work), and also doing the practices they tell you to do (for instance, which deal with the bodhisattvas), brings that blessing and taste of it.

 

This is just how I've noticed that Buddhism works...I'm far from the level of dzogchen practitioner. But better to go this route than to waste time only reading books and thinking you get it; go the route that the qualified teachers prescribe. The more you can listen and learn from them directly, the better.

 

When one attends a weekend retreat there is very little or no student teacher/interaction. The teachings are endless lectures with empowerment's which are only outer teachings with permission to practice. That is all it is and nothing more. If people think they are really receiving some mind altering transmission, they are just fooling themselves.

 

To receive the in depth teachings and there are a few Lama's that are not as strict, one must attend a 3 year retreat.

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[Apech]

I beg to differ.

 

 

Fine.

[Apech]

Speak for yourself.

The gurus make clear, that not every student is equal in his capacity:

1) inferior capacitay

2) medium faculty

3) superior faculty ("he who understands immedeately")

 

..but cannot spell immediately ...???

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells

[gatito]

..but cannot spell immediately ...???

 

http://dyslexia.yale.edu/Research_IQReading.html

 

For anyone of low IQ:-

 

In practical terms, these data provide strong evidence that in dyslexia a person can have a very high IQ and yet read at a much lower level.

Edited January 6, 2016 by gatito

[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[gatito]

Let's see you spell all kinds of german words correctly...

 

My German's not bad actually and if you were brighter, you'd have understood that my post supported you...

 

[Wells]

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[Wells]

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[gatito]

I think your assumption, that every member in this forum has the same mother language like you speaks rather for a low IQ.

WORLD wide web. What could that mean...?

 

Christ!

 

You still don't get it...

 

[Wells]

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Edited May 10, 2016 by Wells