The cruelty of nature

[Anoesjka]

Pain is cruel, fear is cruel, in whichever life form it arises. In my little way of looking at things, it is. Maybe, if someday I will awaken fully, I will see it differently. Right now, I'm struggling with it.

 

Man is part of nature and just as cruel. Indifference is cruel. All from my little ego perspective , of course. I know it isn't in reality. But isn't it all about how we perceive things? And how we rise above that perception, after we struggled with it for long enough?

[zerostao]

indifference is also invaluable. in nature there does exist balance and harmony.

sometimes compassion and understanding wears the mask of indifference,

anoesika, you appreciate your cats---consider their nature. they understand their role in nature.

[Anoesjka]

indifference is also invaluable. in nature there does exist balance and harmony.

sometimes compassion and understanding wears the mask of indifference,

anoesika, you appreciate your cats---consider their nature. they understand their role in nature.

 

My cats just live in the here and now without thinking about it. Yet they suffer from time to time. If I can help them by taking away that suffering, I do that. Because their suffering is my suffering.

 

When I see a struggling hedgehog, its' suffering is my suffering, and the same goes for the poor mouse that my cat has caught and isn't killing quickly enough. Maybe I should be indifferent, but I'm not.

[woodcarver]

Even human cruelness and our conditioning/egos are the result of some causality in the universe = nature

 

But that's my point of view, I'm not really a belieber in choices

Edited October 13, 2014 by woodcarver

[C T]

Sometimes it helps to see that reactions to pain are natural, and such reactions seldom constitute the type of suffering that exists in the limited field by which humans define suffering. Pain is pain - suffering arise from wanting to be pain-free all the time, which, as every honest person will know, is highly improbable. Happiness could arise in bigger doses if we only allow for the understanding that we cannot have what we want all the time, and make concessions accordingly. If, in a little dinghy, we are caught amidst a stormy sea, all manner of protestations will not remove the immediacy of the situation. At some point, out of some unknown storehouse of innate compassion, we give in to present moment, and the struggling ceases. What is to stop us from doing the same, right now? What remains when we cease struggling? The pain will still be there, but the self-imposed contractions and tensions will ease, thats for sure.

[Anoesjka]

Sometimes it helps to see that reactions to pain are natural, and such reactions seldom constitute the type of suffering that exists in the limited field by which humans define suffering. Pain is pain - suffering arise from wanting to be pain-free all the time, which, as every honest person will know, is highly improbable. Happiness could arise in bigger doses if we only allow for the understanding that we cannot have what we want all the time, and make concessions accordingly. If, in a little dinghy, we are caught amidst a stormy sea, all manner of protestations will not remove the immediacy of the situation. At some point, out of some unknown storehouse of innate compassion, we give in to present moment, and the struggling ceases. What is to stop us from doing the same, right now? What remains when we cease struggling? The pain will still be there, but the self-imposed contractions and tensions will ease, thats for sure.

 

Oh yes, but before you can give in, surrender to it, I feel this struggle must take place and make you thoroughly realize that you're fighting mills like Don Quixote. Otherwise what would be there to enlighten?

[C T]

Oh yes, but before you can give in, surrender to it, I feel this struggle must take place and make you thoroughly realize that you're fighting mills like Don Quixote. Otherwise what would be there to enlighten?

There are those who feel that a crusade of struggling is necessary, like the holy folks of old who chastise themselves as a form of penance, yet, there are also those who do not feel that struggling is a prerequisite to surrendering. Surrendering does not need to be accompanied by the straining calls of martyrdom before it takes on meaning - a simple acknowledgement or expressed willingness to remain with whatever is present is often the healthiest form of awakening without needing the lacing of chastisement to add meaning, because that often leads one on the long route home. Idk, thats my take on it anyway... with full understanding that others are free to disregard this view.

[Nungali]

Oh, No!!! He's trying to teach me how to be a good Buddhist!

 

 

One time, a Christian admonished me for not being a Christian ... I said "How do you know I am not a Christian? I might be ... I might just not be a very good at it."

[Nungali]

If you do not suffer, then I bow down to you and hope you can bless me oh liberated one.

 

Oh dear .... being sarcastic like that and lowering your head near his boot could be risky.

[Nungali]

Nature's not cruel, nature's indifferent.

 

And holds 'necessity supreme' .

[Marblehead]

If you do not suffer, then I bow down to you and hope you can bless me oh liberated one.

I bless the birds and cats that come around my place with food.

 

Not have I ever been imprisoned and therefore I have never needed liberation.

 

Oh, all the constraints many Buddhists put on themselves!

 

But yes, I have suffered. And realized it was all my own doing. There was no one nor no thing to put the blame on. It was all mine. Upon realization I made changes. No more suffering. Old age pain? You can bet your ass on that. But that's a different story.

[idiot_stimpy]

Well if you don't suffer mentally, you're doing better than most.

[Marblehead]

Well if you don't suffer mentally, you're doing better than most.

I would agree that I am very fortunate, especially considering the life I have lived.

 

I realized a few years back that I have always been an anarchist. (Just couldn't practice it all the time.)

 

(Anarchy, IMO, allows for free will but I insist that it also includes accepting responsibility for all our thoughts, words, and actions.) (If something in our life is messed up it is likely our own fault.)

 

I apologize that we have gone off topic because the thread topic is an important one: How do we deal with those things in nature that we define as cruel? This really is a difficult concept to deal with.

[idiot_stimpy]

What amazes me is that some questions don't seem to have any answers. Including why nature can be so cruel sometimes.

[dust]

Nature's not cruel. It's just nature.

 

For me, this is one of the central tenets of Taoist thought.

 

 

 

Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness
All can know good as good only because there is evil

 

 

To lament the bad is to lament the good.

 

 

edit: just realized Brian said precisely the same thing earlier ignore

Edited October 15, 2014 by dustybeijing

[zerostao]

"that I have always been an anarchist" that is your nature and it is natural and it is certainly not cruel

[zanshin]

Mostly I love nature, but there are some moments. Last spring, barefoot running on grass trails at the local wetlands park. Mist rising off the ponds, surrounded by meadows of prairie grasses and flowers. Walking back to parking lot, frogs were singing, feeling peace and love with nature. Heard a high chirping in tall grass along the trail and peered down expecting to see some cute creature. It was a little mouse being shoved down a big black snake's mouth. I contemplated rescuing it, but went home and let nature take its course. Sure was a mood buster.

[idiot_stimpy]

The way we are parasitic and must live off other forms of life disgusts me.

[dust]

The way we are parasitic and must live off other forms of life disgusts me.

 

Really? I honestly can't tell if this is irony...

 

If not..

While I'm sure there are some plants or bacteria or something living in the sea or on a rocky outcrop, that don't rely on other life for survival, the vast majority of life is codependent. I'd suggest that close to 100% of life is based on interaction with other life. "Parasitic" is just a way of saying codependent that we use when we don't like what we see.

 

Trees and other plants grow out of the soil. The soil houses worms and other things which aerate it and keep it healthy so the plants can grow. Birds and other animals take nuts and seeds from trees in order that they can eat, and the trees can grow elsewhere. Bees take pollen from flowers when collecting nectar for food, and thus pollinate flowers. Every animal, in fact, from insect to human, feeds off other life, even if just fungus or plant life. In our own bodies we house many types of bacteria and virus that help us to survive... and those worms and other things, which keep the soil healthy, feed off of us and other animals when we die.

 

Honestly, if you're disgusted by any form of life using any other form of life to survive, you're disgusted by nature itself...

 

If that's not what you meant, I apologise for my rant

Edited October 15, 2014 by dustybeijing

[Marblehead]

 

If that's not what you meant, I apologise for my rant

Good rant. Yes, the apology was in order. Hehehe.

 

I agree with Stimpy but I agree with you as well.

 

Nature is what it is. Here is a perfect example for the need for acceptance.

[idiot_stimpy]

The thing is, I am disgusted with it but equally amazed by it.

 

How silly and brilliant is that.

 

Everything seems dependent on the sun. If the sun goes out not much will survive.

[dust]

The thing is, I am disgusted with it but equally amazed by it.

 

How silly and brilliant is that.

 

Ha! Yeah, that's more where I stand, I guess.

 

We wouldn't be human (whatever that means) if we didn't feel sadness or disgust or other things sometimes. I just think it's good (helpful) to remember that in the end, it all exists because the rest of it does.

[Marblehead]

The thing is, I am disgusted with it but equally amazed by it.

 

How silly and brilliant is that.

 

Everything seems dependent on the sun. If the sun goes out not much will survive.

Yeah, sounds like you need to get a handle on your emotions. Seems you are taking life all too seriously.

 

Yes, the sun is what provides energy for all life forms on the planet. One day it will no longer support life (as we know it). But that won't happen for a few years and I doubt that any of us will have to worry about it. (But you can worry if you want to.)

[steve]

I know all that rationally, and it's me that's doing all the labeling, but I'm feeling a bit depressed about the world lately. All those nice things in nature can't seem to make up for all the suffering and the world has lost it's sparkle for me. I hope it's temporary.

 

May be helpful to look at how you are feeling and recognize it is in you, it is not out there in the world.

The world is fine as it is. It is people who struggle with it based on their expectations.

Certainly there is pain, death, and all of that but we add so much to it through our thoughts, emotions, desires, aversions, and expectations.

Depression comes and goes, joy comes and goes.

Best to recognize both for what they are, temporary emotional and psychological states which are a consequence of the conditions of our lives and personalities. Good to acknowledge and honor those feelings, let them run their course and recognize that they are not who you are, just passing experiences.

You are infinitely more than that - you are perfect, it's just hard to see it.

[steve]

The way we are parasitic and must live off other forms of life disgusts me.

 

Another view is that we are component parts of a much bigger and beautiful whole interacting with the other parts in a manner of absolute purity and perfection. It's all a matter of perspective.