alchemist

Wuliupai school

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But anyway what you talk here is not about WuLiupai. WLP is something special and have different approach even comparing with YXP.

 

You're right...but it was posted here because the Russian group which teaches Wuliupai also teaches Yuxianpai.

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You're right...but it was posted here because the Russian group which teaches Wuliupai also teaches Yuxianpai.

 

Anyway there are common things for both schools. If anyone is really interested in it I would recommend to go to Canada and practice it with Michael. The progress will be much faster if you want to work it out ;) 

 

Even if you are ill don't give it up. It will help to recover. Use medicine mushrooms for faster recovery

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Also I wonder whether you mixed it with another practices? DON'T MIX IT with any other things. It could be a reason of getting ill

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This very Interesting thread clearly shows the inherent problems In propagating advanced teachings.

 

I call It "The 5 year old/Nuke" dilemma. Do you really want to give nuclear capabilities to a 5 year old?

It's going to be a bit of a disaster for all Involved.  :D

 

From reading the WLP site, and comparing It, and Opendao's various comments to my own experiences,

and teachers, It's obvious that they're familiar with the physical transformation aspects of actual neidan practice,

along with the potential Issues than can occur when you start dealing with other levels of "Reality", and the various entities

that reside there.

 

With that said, there's no way to know for sure WHAT the Wu Liu Pai School's got, unless you're willing to spend $1200K round trip on average (not Including lodging, Food, etc,) to go to Saint-Petersburg, Russia from the US, to find out. I'm very fortunate to not have to do that, but if you're attempting to evaluate ANY school, or teacher, It's really the only way to do so. Everything else Is hearsay, and opinion, at the end of the day.

 

"Does It Work?". "Can You Show Me That It Works?". "Do You Have Multiple Examples Of Effective Students?"

"Is The System Coherent Enough To Learn, And Then Teach Others?"

 

These are the only questions that matter. The whole "My System/Sifu/Teacher/Master/Guru Is Better Than Yours" thing, doesn't help anyone. Results, and accomplished students, and teachers that can demonstrate, do.

 

Every system I've learned, I've made the trip, met the teacher, verified what they had worked, spent the money,

learned the system, and now teach It to others (If they're ready). 

 

Real Neidan can be very dangerous, without both thorough research, knowledgable teachers, and access to

a trained practitioner of both Classical, and Traditional Chinese Medicine, Herbalism, and Tuina, If possible.

 

Your vehicle transforms, as your consciousness transforms from these practices, so you need to be prepared.

 

Qigong isn't Neidan. Unfortunately, there's a lot of distortion, and confusion occurring these days from well meaning

people not understanding the differences. the same thing Is happening with the practice of Tai Chi Quan In the States.

 

Movements of Wind Qi through the Meridians, Is NOT the movement of The Real Yang Qi. I learned this once Tai Hsi, aka Kevala Khumbaka, began. That's when you begin to learn what's the real deal, and what's make believe.

 

WLP folks are VERY passionate about their practice, and It's effectiveness. That's great, and I trust that they will get

everything that they're looking for. Unfortunately, the lack of any basic outline of their actual techniques, beyond the

theory on their site, limits their acquisition of students to their local area, and those with the resources, Intestinal fortitude, and destiny, to travel there to learn.

 

And that's fine. From my personal experience as both practitioner, and teacher, people love to talk, but most don't

want to put the time, and effort Into "Eating The Bitter" to learn these truly amazing systems, and abilities.

 

So these advanced systems, by their very nature, are going to always have a very limited group of practitioners,

with a larger group upset at being "Locked Out" of learning the practices.

 

Peace, and Blessings to all of you. Much success on your journey.

 

Cheers!

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This very Interesting thread clearly shows the inherent problems In propagating advanced teachings.

 

I call It "The 5 year old/Nuke" dilemma. Do you really want to give nuclear capabilities to a 5 year old?

It's going to be a bit of a disaster for all Involved.  :D

Thats a metaphor i dont understand. The 5 year old is apparently the adult student. Why is an adult compared to a 5 year old? And what exactly is the nuke here?

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Thats a metaphor i dont understand. The 5 year old is apparently the adult student. Why is an adult compared to a 5 year old? And what exactly is the nuke here?

Opendao has used this before, the point being that if you teach the wrong student the practices, then the abilities gained could be used destructively.

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Opendao has used this before, the point being that if you teach the wrong student

well, thanks. the "wrong student"...lets say there is such a thing

the practices, then the abilities gained could be used destructively.

but this is? like how for example?

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Thats a metaphor i dont understand. The 5 year old is apparently the adult student. Why is an adult compared to a 5 year old? And what exactly is the nuke here?

Hi Taoist Texts,

 

5 year old corresponds to lack of knowledge, self-control, darkness = The Kan trigram.

 

A teenager can work just as well In the metaphor. Lack of actual experience, yet thinking 

they've "got It", and everyone else Is just trying to ruin their fun.

 

You're assuming that most adults are adults.  ;) Biologically, yes. Mentally, and Spiritually?

Not so much.  :D

 

The nuke Is Neidan, In the wrong hands. You don't have to be a Superior Man, or Woman to do

the Initial practices, and get some very powerful phenomenal realm results. You really want to minimize

people with various character flaws In possession of these materials. It ends up being a problem for

both them, and the people around them.

 

Cheers!

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Opendao has used this before, the point being that if you teach the wrong student the practices, then the abilities gained could be used destructively.

Exactly! See "Anakin Skywalker" aka "Darth Vader", for a popular culture reference.

 

Cheers!

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Perfect man Wu Chung-xu (Shou-yang) was initially from the Dragon Gate Perfect Truth school (LongMenPai) of 7 generations: 

 

The Head of The School Wu Chung-Xu has explained in detail the general principles of different teachings in his book "Common Teachings of Immortals and Buddhas", the truth of “the 3 teachings returning to their unity". Methods of WuLiuPai School took the major Buddhist works such as “金刚经”, “楞 严 经”, “华严经” and others, combined them with the works of perfect people in each school of Taoism, fused it into a single system, created the original School Dragon gate Teaching of Perfect Truth of Taoism. So the WuLiuPai School does not fully belong to Dragon Gates school now.

 

the WuLiuPai school, separate from the LongMenPai. Since the establishment of the school have passed more than 400 years, it has received extensive development and continues unabated. And still its foundation is strong, and successes are numerous, the number of Tao practitioners in our school is large.  

 

Main goal of WuLiuPai School - a way of perfection and confirmation by your own experience of becoming a Buddha or Immortal,

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well, thanks. the "wrong student"...lets say there is such a thing

but this is? like how for example?

Well If you don't see such a thing as a "Wrong Student" for a particular system being a reality,

there's not much more to say about that. :)

 

As a basic example. Guy learns how to drain Qi from women during Intercourse. Unbeknownst 

to the teacher ("Teacher" has just read a few books, took a $5,000 Intensive with "Master of The Week",

put up a Wordpress site, and printed some business cards out at Staples), this man has major issues with

misogyny, narcissistic personality disorder,  with a dash of violent sociopathy, for good measure. Add

Neidan practices, shake, and voila, a FUBAR situation for all parties Involved. Damaged psyches, vehicles,

lives, etc., for all Involved.

 

 

A separate, and Important point that I forgot to mention earlier, Is that ALL of the ancient cultivation texts,

are, for want of a better term, "Booby-trapped". They have various misdirections, and outright lies contained In

them, to discourage "the profane".

 

Add bad translations to the mix, and you have the current state of spiritual cultivation, a virtual "Tower of Babel",

where no one understands what the other Is trying to say, and It all devolves Into juvenile name calling, and

pointless arguments.

 

"Taoist Yoga", "Serpent Power", Initiation Into Hermetics", etc. all do this. It why there's so much confusion.

And that's Intentional. Things of great value are not easily gained.  :D

 

It is why having a good teacher at the beginning Is essential. I was fortunate to only make one wrong turn

teacher wise. And It worked out like It was supposed to, because I met my Gong Fu teacher through a workshop

one of his students gave at her place.

 

Once you have a good foundation, THEN you can research, and test on your own. You can get Into a lot of trouble

otherwise.

 

With the proper foundation, cross system research, and an understanding of physics, quantum mechanics, physiology,

nutrition, Classical, and Traditional Chinese Medicine, cosmology, culture, etc. (and/or access to people that do),

along with 10,000+ hours of actual practice, you can grasp the actual process, and how to get there.

 

All any good teacher, or system can do Is get you to the door. You still have to open It yourself.

 

Cheers!

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As a basic example. Guy learns how to drain Qi from women during Intercourse. 

 

Ah, this is what you compare to an explosion killing up to 500 000 humans at once. Now i understand. Thank you.

 

 Damaged psyches, vehicles,

lives, etc., for all Involved.

 

But why would not the all involved wear tinfoil hats to prevent this calamity? At least during the intercourse. Tinfoil hats saves lives!

 

A separate, and Important point that I forgot to mention earlier, Is that ALL of the ancient cultivation texts,

are, for want of a better term, "Booby-trapped". They have various misdirections, and outright lies contained In

them, to discourage "the profane".  

 

A good tinfoil hat will help with that too.

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Ah, this is what you compare to an explosion killing up to 500 000 humans at once. Now i understand. Thank you.

 

 

But why would not the all involved wear tinfoil hats to prevent this calamity? At least during the intercourse. Tinfoil hats saves lives!

 

 

A good tinfoil hat will help with that too.

You're a funny guy Taoist Texts, In so many ways.

 

Cheers!

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I just found this post from the teacher/master in our online classes. Apparently he's willing to answer your questions, Taoist Texts, and anyone else's. 

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/39079-introduction-aakhokhlov-and-taoist-center-dao-de/

Thanks Bluemind. Appreciated.  :D 

 

I don't really have any questions. I was just making an observation about all of

this "Our system Is the Best, but we can't give you any details as to WHY It's the best.

Or show you any of our advanced practitioners as examples. Just believe us. It Is. Oh yeah,

and every other system is crap" that goes on on this forum.

 

Human nature, I know, but I thought the goal was to get beyond such pettiness.

 

And I say the above with the caveat that they just might have a fantastic system. You just

have to travel to actually find out. I've done all of that already, with the systems I now use.

Now it's about putting the practice time In. 3 hours minimum everyday, 365 days a year, for 5 years,

for me at this point.

 

People should ask these various systems the most Important question,"how do I know that I will

actually be an Immortal upon transition, and not lose consciousness". THAT'S the one you want

to know. Powers, etc. mean nothing, If you forget It all when you reincarnate. I'll deal with this In a

different thread.

 

Thanks again Bluemind.

 

Cheers!

Edited by Infolad1
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I just found this post from the teacher/master in our online classes. Apparently he's willing to answer your questions, Taoist Texts, and anyone else's. 

 

http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/39079-introduction-aakhokhlov-and-taoist-center-dao-de/

 

No, I think he is very busy now to answer your questions. Do you know how many people ask him questions every day at this time? And yes, the best way to clear any doubts is to travel to Saint Petersburg and take classes and seminars. That's what I did actually. But if one can't travel I could recommend to take online classes on Daogong which is quite important part of all other systems that are taught in DaoDe center. One will need approx. 1-2 years to work out Daogong before practising Neidan. Also shengong for kidneys is very good to do along with Daogong. I believe that Daogong would be very beneficial for everyone whatever he/she practices else. It helps to bring balance and stability, and also vitality. There are some exercises from WLP in Daogong and it has alchemical foundation in it and it's not just qigong. So I want to say that it's better to ask questions when you PRACTICE it and then teacher will answer questions as well as will be able to correct energetic imbalances in a student and give advises regarding practical aspects of a system . That' the best way of clearing doubts that one might have regarding any spiritual system. (Neidan is the best one for westerners I believe :P )

If one is very interested in it i would recommend either to take online classes or attend a seminar on Daogong, build the foundation in Daogong and then when one feels changes it would be much easier to grasp alchemical exercises.

WuLiuPai system is not given to people who can not attend intensive seminars that are held every 3-6 months. Otherwise it won't work properly and can be dangerous for a student. But YuXianPai school is more open and there are no that much strict requirements. WuLiuPai is based on "heart to heart" transmission from the very beginning that's not the case in the beginning of YXP system. There is more emphasis on "clearing the heart" In YXP in the beginning. May be I wrong in something for I dont know well all aspects of both schools but that's what I heard myself from instructors in Russia.

So, it is worth trying Daogong plus YXP's alchemical "cleansing " exercises and give it a try to do your best for 1-2 years in order to be able to estimate how it works for you. There are no any other ways to clear any doubts regarding this system

 

Sorry if I am not correct in my English grammar. With the best regards

Edited by Antares
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Does every student in this system/school need to start at the bottom/beginning? Or, do the teacher(s) have the vision to determine which students already have some spiritual/energetic growth?

 

We, as humans, are all unique, born in to this lifetime with varying spiritual accomplishments.

 

I am not instructor and can not give precise answer to this question but as far as I got it everyone begins from the very beginning in Neidan. It does not matter how a person is gifted spiritually. It's because all aspects should be worked out from the very beginning - at the beginning we need to build (cleanse) channels for pre-heaven energy. How many people already have it? It may take less time for preparation for a gifted person but there are no shortcuts concerning methods.

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No, I think he is very busy now to answer your questions. Do you know how many people ask him questions every day at this time? And yes, the best way to clear any doubts is to travel to Saint Petersburg and take classes and seminars. That's what I did actually. But if one can't travel I could recommend to take online classes on Daogong which is quite important part of all other systems that are taught in DaoDe center. One will need approx. 1-2 years to work out Daogong before practising Neidan. Also shengong for kidneys is very good to do along with Daogong. I believe that Daogong would be very beneficial for everyone whatever he/she practices else. It helps to bring balance and stability, and also vitality. There are some exercises from WLP in Daogong and it has alchemical foundation in it and it's not just qigong. So I want to say that it's better to ask questions when you PRACTICE it and then teacher will answer questions as well as will be able to correct energetic imbalances in a student and give advises regarding practical aspects of a system . That' the best way of clearing doubts that one might have regarding any spiritual system. (Neidan is the best one for westerners I believe :P )

If one is very interested in it i would recommend either to take online classes or attend a seminar on Daogong, build the foundation in Daogong and then when one feels changes it would be much easier to grasp alchemical exercises.

WuLiuPai system is not given to people who can not attend intensive seminars that are held every 3-6 months. Otherwise it won't work properly and can be dangerous for a student. But YuXianPai school is more open and there are no that much strict requirements. WuLiuPai is based on "heart to heart" transmission from the very beginning that's not the case in the beginning of YXP system. There is more emphasis on "clearing the heart" In YXP in the beginning. May be I wrong in something for I dont know well all aspects of both schools but that's what I heard myself from instructors in Russia.

So, it is worth trying Daogong plus YXP's alchemical "cleansing " exercises and give it a try to do your best for 1-2 years in order to be able to estimate how it works for you. There are no any other ways to clear any doubts regarding this system

 

Sorry if I am not correct in my English grammar. With the best regards

Thank you very much Antares for your reply. It's the clearest explanation I've heard about

what the WLP school does so far. 

 

And your English Is fine. Better than quite a few native speakers actually.  :D

 

Cheers!

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Apeiron&Peiron

 

Hmm. Well, the back-and-forth comments aside, I am still wondering how the methods work.

 

They have been described as balancing post-heaven in order to cultivate pre-heaven energy/resources. I thought that was what most forms of qigong/neigong had done. With the Taoist Yoga, we balance the post-heaven energy with the quick-fire methods that are meant to refine generative force by circulating it in the microcosmic orbit. There are a prescribed number of rotations that seem to have celestial significance.

 

Balance is the balance of Yin and Yang.

 

By the method you described, you can get an excess of Yang by means of exhausting the "generative force" Jing.

 

Such method is dangerous and have no relation to the alchemist "quick fire".

 

Daogong uses more gentle, natural approach, similar to Zhang Zhuan.

 

 

Granted, this will fill and stabilize the physical and post-heavenly level of functioning and does not constitute full transmutation. But, after this is established, there is also the selectively reversed cycling so as to purify with the slow fires. It is described as raising positive fire and lowering negative fire (these were generated during the microcosmic orbiting) and it works to further refine the post-heavenly so as to approach the pre-heavenly.

 

Taoist Yoga and Zhao Bichen tried to express so called "northern method" with some Buddhist additions. In Wu-Liu Pai such method is known, but the major way is so called "southern method " which has no relation to what you describe.

 

 

 

 

Now, I am slightly confused. It was described (by you) that Taoist Yoga will will burn pre-heavenly to preserve post-heavenly. I don't quite see how it burns pre-heavenly. Not unless the pre-heavenly is somehow engaged when "the light is turned around" and the gaze is inward. Then again, since this is done so that the faculty of the third eye can be used to move and refine the body's resources, I don't know what resources it might require in order to do what it does.

 

Any postheaven work needs preheaven to be spent. So if you want more postheaven work, you burn more preheaven. Like fuel.

 

But, all of this aside, if the alchemical methods of the Wuliu Pai are unique and unlike any of the other schools out there, how is the direct pre-heavenly cultivation engaged? Just going from the Taoist Yoga works (and the topical explanation that I had read), it doesn't seem like it is that different.

 

This is the main secret of the southern, ancient method of the alchemy: those who know it progress fast and relatively easy, while the method partially described in Taoist Yoga is considered to be slow and hard.

 

There are no public texts about the ancient method, so basically there is nothing to compare.

 

Northern method is not unique and known in many various schools. So probably you read some texts about it and they have evident similarity with Zhao Bichen.

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I think that the problem is that people here didnt recive much formation about WLP and YXP.Precisly stages of work,names of method and technics.No one ask for disclosure of secrets,but I think if schools can provide some basic sceleton how one got from preparation till finish this is to be great.And also what unique if any methods exsist in this schools.Like why and how they are diferent from Longmen Pai?

 

Daogong mentioned I see that it is new method like Qi Gong or Yang Sheng created by Dao De centar in Russia for preparation of western students and it is not part of preparation for WLP and YXP.So I hope there is reason why they introduced it at start.For new one this can be important but for those who practice Qi Gong and Nei Gong for years can be boring.

 

Antoher topic I see here is that members of this forum try to understand WLP from standpoint of Qianfeng Pai and Master Zhao Bi Chen.As we see this is of little help because in my opinion WLP changed from the time of Zhao Bi Chen.How it changed?I think Opendao say one crucial info that they have old method of Nanzong Pai(Souther school of Immortal Master Zhang Boduan) which included pair cultivation Yin Yang Shuang Xiu.This method as far as I know didnt belonged to Longmen Pai,nor Chan Buddhism nor WLP in the time of Zhao Bi Chen.And actualy this is the biggest secret of Nei Dan it is real old Ming Gong and Long Hu Bi Fa.

 

Ormus

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(...)

 

Daogong mentioned I see that it is new method like Qi Gong or Yang Sheng created by Dao De centar in Russia for preparation of western students and it is not part of preparation for WLP and YXP.So I hope there is reason why they introduced it at start.For new one this can be important but for those who practice Qi Gong and Nei Gong for years can be boring.

 

Antoher topic I see here is that members of this forum try to understand WLP from standpoint of Qianfeng Pai and Master Zhao Bi Chen.(...)

 

Ormus

 

Only a couple of comments.

Daogong is for all, not only westerners. It is practiced in order to clean the channles and balancing yin and yang. It is neigong. It is not boring if you have the righ teacher(s) because there are always details you need to correc in order to "attune" yourself correctly. Here is where the teacher and schoo (two essential elements in traditional daoism) plays a central role.

 

And yes, Qianfegpai is what some people uses to compare with. Not only WLP or YXP but Longmenpai too.

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