alchemist

Wuliupai school

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"In the methods of the School WuLiu is not only collected all the best from many schools of Taoism......"

 

 

Such a saying only shows how little the author's understanding of Taoist schools and their ways... :- )

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"In the methods of the School WuLiu is not only collected all the best from many schools of Taoism......"

 

 

Such a saying only shows how little the author's understanding of Taoist schools and their ways... :- )

Impostors usually have no clue about what are they trying to impost.

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Impostors usually have no clue about what are they trying to impost.

 

I'm awaiting when you reveal your wisdom about "taoist texts you have some knowledge about". But I see just a sarcasm without any substance... Is it all you can do? Not good to begin with, I would say.

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"In the methods of the School WuLiu is not only collected all the best from many schools of Taoism......"

 

 

Such a saying only shows how little the author's understanding of Taoist schools and their ways... :- )

 

I've read your blog because I was feeling you're not so profane and secular as your words... Do you really know who is the author of this text? Do you know that this statement have a clear meaning for anyone who knows the history of Wu Chongxu? I think you were in a big rush and just skipped something important...

Edited by opendao
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Such a saying only shows how little the author's understanding of Taoist schools and their ways... :- )

Wuliupai is a known and respected school in the Daoist circles of China. So I wonder how much do you know about the Daoist schools and their ways.

BR

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Just raise two issues :

 

1) WuLiu says that an abrupt , strong erection (of course here referring to male practitioners' ) in our meditation, is a symtom of the birth of Yang (' 陽生' ) ; and , even though we are told that it happens in a mindless status , such a claim is still doubtful , and already criticized by many Taoist masters .

 

2) Regarding " laying the foundation" ('築基’), WuLiu says that after having succeeded in stopping the leakage of our jing forever , our foundation is well laid ... which similarly is doubtful and challenged by many people..

 

Wuliu's over-use of Buddhist sayings and inappropriate introduction of some of Buddhist Sutra not only make Buddhists unhappy, but also downgrade Taoist image ( although Taoists do not search for fame or position, there is no need to give people wrong image...) .Don't get me wrong , I respect Wuliu , its masters and writings , a lot ; only saying that it collects all the best from Taoist's , is far from the truth..

Edited by exorcist_1699
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and , even though we are told that it happens in a mindless status

This is an important difference from what is often criticized.

 

Regarding " laying the foundation" ('築基’), WuLiu says that after having succeeded in stopping the leakage of our jing forever , our foundation is well laid ... which similarly is doubtful and challenged by many people..

That is because you might misunderstand what "stopping the leakage" is.

Wuliu's over-use of Buddhist sayings and inappropriate introduction of some of Buddhist Sutra not only make Buddhists unhappy, but also downgrade Taoist image ( although Taoists do not search for fame or position, there is no need to give people wrong image...)

Liu Huayang was a Buddhist monk, so he is totally in his right to use Buddhist sayings.

BR

Edited by alchemist
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Just raise two issues :

 

1) WuLiu says that an abrupt , strong erection (of course here referring to male practitioners' ) in our meditation, is a symtom of the birth of Yang (' 陽生' ) ; and , even though we are told that it happens in a mindless status , such a claim is still doubtful , and already criticized by many Taoist masters .

 

Hi Exorcist... Can you please explain to us in more detail what these criticisms entail? Do they mean that the abrupt appearance of an erection during a mindless state is unlikely to occur, or that such an occurrence does not indicate the birth of yang? Which, if any, texts contain these criticisms?

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it does happen in mindless state, or atleast not mindful. it is the mind that sends energy. one can let these thoughts pass or get lost in them

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Hi Exorcist... Can you please explain to us in more detail what these criticisms entail? Do they mean that the abrupt appearance of an erection during a mindless state is unlikely to occur, or that such an occurrence does not indicate the birth of yang? Which, if any, texts contain these criticisms?

 

No, a mindless erection can occur when we succeed in having our jing leakage stopped for 2- 3 months plus we can sustain an emptied mind , say more than 5 minutes..; it , of course, is one of the features of the birth of Yang, but should not be viewed as the main one.

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No, a mindless erection can occur when we succeed in having our jing leakage stopped for 2- 3 months plus we can sustain an emptied mind , say more than 5 minutes..; it , of course, is one of the features of the birth of Yang, but should not be viewed as the main one.

 

Where is this from? what WLP book you read to make such interesting conclusions about "birth of Yang" and "likeage stop"?

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Wuliu's over-use of Buddhist sayings and inappropriate introduction of some of Buddhist Sutra not only make Buddhists unhappy

 

Can you shortly mention what sutra(s) are not introduced properly in Wu Liu book(s) and why?

 

Don't get me wrong , I respect Wuliu , its masters and writings , a lot ; only saying that it collects all the best from Taoist's , is far from the truth..

 

Please continue and say what was missed in WLP syllabus, and what good schools were not covered? Why do you think these schools are "good"? what is their real difference with WLP? And please also mention the source of your knowledge about WLP syllabus, because afaik it wasn't published openly, so I really have no idea how you can prove your "far from the truth" statement.

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I think that the "mindless erection" is a tenet from Longmenpai (and as that is found in Zhao Bichen's books) and in some teachers from Wudanshan. In the line of Wang Liping theres is something called "live hour zi" and seems similar to that.

Is the 伍柳仙宗 Wuliuxianzong a good source for studying Wuliu teachings?

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Zhao Bichen to my understanding had knowledge but had a limitation by not having complete methods, thus did not achieve high level.

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Can you shortly mention what sutra(s) are not introduced properly in Wu Liu book(s) and why?

 

 

---------------------------

 

In Liu Hua Yang's Hui Ming Jing (慧命經) , he quoted a lot from the Buddhist classics : the Śūraṅgama-sūtra (楞嚴經) ,Laṅkāvatāra sūtra (楞枷經) Avataṃsaka-sūtra (華嚴經) , Heart sutra , Sixth Patriarch sutra...and give them some Taoist interpretation, some are correct, some are not appropriate ..

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Zhao Bichen to my understanding had knowledge but had a limitation by not having complete methods, thus did not achieve high level.

 

you don't need methods to attain a high level

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In Liu Hua Yang's Hui Ming Jing (慧命經) , he quoted a lot from the Buddhist classics : the Śūraṅgama-sūtra (楞嚴經) ,Laṅkāvatāra sūtra (楞枷經) Avataṃsaka-sūtra (華嚴經) , Heart sutra , Sixth Patriarch sutra...and give them some Taoist interpretation, some are correct, some are not appropriate ..

 

which ones? I won't bite you, I promise :-)

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you don't need methods to attain a high level

 

From the author's introduction to Huiming Jing, by Liu Huayang, co-patriarch of the Wu Liu Pai.

 

 

"The Tao of Huiming, which comes down from one hundred thousand years, profoundly secret and transmitted exclusively, is ultimately difficult to peer into and realize. Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world [to practice its teachings]. As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth. It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy - you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help - and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit. This was my original intent in toiling bitterly to find a teacher and awaken to the Tao."

 

 

Being part of a school and community which strives together can certainly be an expedient, however, is he is or is he ain't saying that it's not a necessity?

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I think that the "mindless erection" is a tenet from Longmenpai (and as that is found in Zhao Bichen's books) and in some teachers from Wudanshan. In the line of Wang Liping theres is something called "live hour zi" and seems similar to that.

Is the 伍柳仙宗 Wuliuxianzong a good source for studying Wuliu teachings?

Zhao Bichen's school is a non-orthodox branch of Wuliupai. Their practice differs from Wuliu methods.

Wan Liping has no relation to Wuliu.

Wuliuxianzong is Wu Chongxu's text, so yes, it is a good source for studying Wuliu teachings.

BR

Edited by alchemist

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you don't need methods to attain a high level

That depends on what a 'high level' is in your understanding. One does need right methdos to attain a high level in neidan.

BR

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From the author's introduction to Huiming Jing, by Liu Huayang, co-patriarch of the Wu Liu Pai.

 

As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth.

Excellent , excellent! Bears repeating.

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From the author's introduction to Huiming Jing, by Liu Huayang, co-patriarch of the Wu Liu Pai.

 

 

"The Tao of Huiming, which comes down from one hundred thousand years, profoundly secret and transmitted exclusively, is ultimately difficult to peer into and realize. Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world [to practice its teachings]. As you examine the Huiming Jing it is indeed the same as if I were telling it to you with my own mouth. It is only necessary to rouse your will and dedicate all your energy - you need not go to some other mountain to seek further help - and you will be able to establish and manifest the Buddha Fruit. This was my original intent in toiling bitterly to find a teacher and awaken to the Tao."

 

 

Being part of a school and community which strives together can certainly be an expedient, however, is he is or is he ain't saying that it's not a necessity?

He does not. A simple question: can you tell what, how and in which circumstances you need to practice from reading HMJ? I suppose you can not.

The reason why Wuliu Patriarchs are saying that they name some things openly is that the medieval Patriarchs are way more obscure. So Wuliupai texts are more clear than the medieval neidan classics, but that’s all. There are no methods described there.

BR

Edited by alchemist

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From the author's introduction to Huiming Jing, by Liu Huayang, co-patriarch of the Wu Liu Pai.

 

Being part of a school and community which strives together can certainly be an expedient, however, is he is or is he ain't saying that it's not a necessity?

 

Of course he says that in so many words

 

 

Now, by means of simple, straightforward language, I will pass on the Treasure of the Buddha, offering it as if on a tray to enable followers in the world [to practice its teachings].

He is not a lier.

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Of course he says that in so many words

 

 

He is not a lier.

Of course you can go on trolling in my topics if you do have enough time for that.

But if you think you can say something I can't argue, you are wrong. You have too few knowledge and understanding for that.

Have you noticed that the word 'practice' is in the square brackets? I.e. the translator has added this word, it is not in the original text.

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That depends on what a 'high level' is in your understanding. One does need right methdos to attain a high level in neidan.

BR

 

i would disagree. high level in my understanding is a celestial immortal. and i'm pretty sure that's the same as your schools understanding. this just takes a lot of meditation

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