Monkey Mind ? Anyone else?

[Boy]

...

Edited April 6, 2014 by Boy

[soaring crane]

I think the inner journey is different for everyone, of course because we are all different. For me, if my meditation was like this i wouldn't do it. It's like a front row seat and a hardcore test to remain non-judgemental to the things that you most likely want to judge. I wouldn't consider that fun, a constant and persistant test - i wouldn't like it.

 

I hope I didn't give the impression that that scenario is what plays in my mind's eye every time I meditate/cultivate/practice! ooops

 

I wrote that out to illustrate what to do afterward ie leave it behind you.

[C T]

a sharing...

 

 

Allowing Space ~ Tsoknyi Rinpoche

If we can allow some space within our awareness and rest there, we can respect our troubling thoughts and emotions, allow them to come, and let them go. Our lives may be complicated on the outside, but we remain simple, easy, and open on the inside.

--- Tsoknyi Rinpoche

[Ya Mu]

What I have found is that everyone has their own ability to do this that varies from zero to a hundred. In other words, some almost instantly can do this stopping of the world - amazes me as it took me a LONG time - and others it takes much longer. Shifting is a technique that can help as it puts the time/now/yesterday/tomorrow into perspective and leads one out of mental chatter.

[soaring crane]

there's another angle that this can be viewed from: The monkey is also a bridge to your daily life. That means that, when he appears, the better idea could be to continue 'going through the motions' of your meditation or whatever you're doing at the moment, with the understanding that some of your practice will leech its way into your daily life (which for many is the goal anyway).

 

I guess it could be phrased thusly: When having 'one of those' days, or one of those moments, when the world won't stop "interfering" with your practice, let your practice interfere with the world

 

And I'm gonna re-word and repeat my mantra: Sitting in non-judgment doesn't work if there's nothing to be non-judged.

[silent thunder]

...

 

I guess it could be phrased thusly: When having 'one of those' days, or one of those moments, when the world won't stop "interfering" with your practice, let your practice interfere with the world

 

And I'm gonna re-word and repeat my mantra: Sitting in non-judgment doesn't work if there's nothing to be non-judged.

Love this!

[Maddie]

The heart beats

The lungs breathe

The stomach digests

The mind thinks

 

Why is only one of these considered an abnormal problem?

[Maddie]

11 minutes ago, ऋषि said:

 

do you consider "the mind" to be a physical organ?

No

[Maddie]

Difference in form does not necessarily equate difference in function.

One can use beans and computers to count. Different form, same function.

Edited April 18, 2020 by dmattwads

[C T]

Just like clouds are not a physical thing. Got it. lol

[idiot_stimpy]

This monkey mind, thoughts, repetition of conceptual baggage, must be viewed from the point of view that it is not a negative or positive appearance, however it is, like all phenomenon, an appearance of the pristine quality of the natural mind, appearing and then disappearing together with all other phenomenon. 

 

Unless one is dragged along and tossed into the sea of ignorance by the self arising mental phenomenon, one can see monkey mind as inseparable to the natural mind and leave it be.

[C T]

38 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

This monkey mind, thoughts, repetition of conceptual baggage, must be viewed from the point of view that it is not a negative or positive appearance, however it is, like all phenomenon, an appearance of the pristine quality of the natural mind, appearing and then disappearing together with all other phenomenon. 

 

Unless one is dragged along and tossed into the sea of ignorance by the self arising mental phenomenon, one can see monkey mind as inseparable to the natural mind and leave it be.

 

Most wont understand this until they die. From the time the sense doors begin to form habits of grasping, almost all their energy is devoted to rising above the crowd and the noise - to be stronger, sexier, healthier, smarter, more spiritual, more moral, more compassionate, more realised, thus forcing into existence a "you" and an "others", when in reality, this is the only illusion. This dream of separation is at its most stark as the last few breaths are being drawn, when the perceived 3D world begin to slowly fold in on itself. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by C T

[idiot_stimpy]

Indivisibiliter ac inseparabiliter - Indivisibly and inseparably.

[idiot_stimpy]

18 minutes ago, C T said:

 

Most wont understand this until they die. 

 

In death we are set free.

[C T]

10 minutes ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

In death we are set free.

 

Briefly, perhaps. 

[thelerner]

I'm listening to the audio book, The Unfettered Soul.  It's exercise to deal with the monkey mind is to consider it a bit of a dopey judgmental anxious gossipy Roommate.  A bit mentally challenged.  You see something and it goes on and on about it like a younger sibling dying for attention.  

 

You don't need inner commentary on everything you see, or things that get your attention.  You can just notice them.  Beyond a light strategy you don't need to replay episodes from the past that might reoccur, and you don't even need that strategy if you trust yourself.  As you drop the dramas, peace should descend. 

 

You start looking at the inner dialog with a sympathetic derision.. there it goes again.. and you go back to consciousness and breath.   

 

 

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, ऋषि said:

From there I suppose your initial question has to do with the most "efficient" functioning of the organism along its full spectrum, since you are asking about an "abnormal problem".  And this is something that has been explored in countless ways among countless traditions in countless times and places.  You really have to work very hard to avoid information on this topic - and thats not necessarily a commendable accomplishment.

 

I didn't have a question. It was more of a statement.

 

The point I was trying to make is that a lot of people who attempt meditation think something is wrong with them because they have thoughts in their mind. 

 

We don't meditate to get rid of thought. We meditate because we have thought.

[steve]

On 4/17/2020 at 12:22 PM, dmattwads said:

The heart beats

The lungs breathe

The stomach digests

The mind thinks

 

Why is only one of these considered an abnormal problem?

 

All are fine when functioning well and healthy.

An abnormal heartbeat, asthma, stomach ulcer, all can be serious problems.

And all can be a result of chronic stress, as can many other "physical" problems.

There is quite a bit of stigma associated with "mental illness" so unhealthy activity of the mind is often ignored and allowed to become far more serious a problem than it might if talked of and addressed more openly. 

Are there many out there who point at healthy thinking as an abnormal problem?

I suspect it's more a matter of people looking for some relief from maladaptive and dysfunctional patterns of thought and emotion.

It is such a pervasive phenomenon in modern, industrialized and digitized society.

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, steve said:

 

All are fine when functioning well and healthy.

An abnormal heartbeat, asthma, stomach ulcer, all can be serious problems.

And all can be a result of chronic stress, as can many other "physical" problems.

There is quite a bit of stigma associated with "mental illness" so unhealthy activity of the mind is often ignored and allowed to become far more serious a problem than it might if talked of and addressed more openly. 

Are there many out there who point at healthy thinking as an abnormal problem?

I suspect it's more a matter of people looking for some relief from maladaptive and dysfunctional patterns of thought and emotion.

It is such a pervasive phenomenon in modern, industrialized and digitized society.

 

It's definitely a problem when the monkey is suffering. 🐒😥

[steve]

44 minutes ago, dmattwads said:

 

I didn't have a question. It was more of a statement.

 

The point I was trying to make is that a lot of people who attempt meditation think something is wrong with them because they have thoughts in their mind. 

 

We don't meditate to get rid of thought. We meditate because we have thought.

 

I'll flesh this out a bit more, if that's ok, from my perspective as a practitioner.

There is a period of time during which we do practice to get rid of thought.

It's a transient phase during which we attempt to identify the basis of thought and emotion, its essence.

It is necessary so that we can begin to see how we mis-identify with those transient experiences of thought and emotion and take them as who we are. This is where the fundamental problem arises.

Once we are able to make that distinction, then the process is to allow those experiences to come and go as they will without disturbing us. If we are successful at that, we are liberated and those transient experiences no longer have the power to cause difficulties.

[silent thunder]

awareness unfolding as it is.

awareness unfolding is what is.

 

neither accepting, nor rejecting what arises within

awareness is

 

unfolding within perception and senses

within thoughts and emotions

within emptiness and motion

within meditation and stillness

unfolding in silence

 

awareness dancing through

unfolding within

all experience

and silence

 

unfolding now

and now

 

and now

 

 

[thelerner]

During everyday life, I don't think its perfect quiet we're after.  We tend to be a somewhat neurotic society, so having a quieter less reactive mind would help many. 

 

Exercises like noticing and de-personalizing the inner chatter might not be a long term strategy, ie exercise is healthy but not to be done all the time.  But spending some time at a strategy to quiet the inner voice seems worthwhile to me.  At least until you know yourself better.. getting yourself off cruise control in a direction that you may not have set. 

[C T]

and now

 

and now

unfolding now

 

and silence 

all experience

unfolding within

awareness dancing through

 

unfolding in silence

within meditation and stillness

within emptiness and motion

within thoughts and emotions

unfolding within perception and senses

 

awareness is

neither accepting nor rejecting what arises within

 

awareness unfolding is what is.

awareness unfolding as it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ∞ courtesy of silent thunder ∞

[dwai]

On 4/17/2020 at 11:22 AM, dmattwads said:

The heart beats

The lungs breathe

The stomach digests

The mind thinks

 

Why is only one of these considered an abnormal problem?

Not an abnormal problem if it just does it’s role. Unfortunately most people have no idea that the mind is just a tool and it’s job is to dissect. 

The mind comprises four functions — 

• thought projector (called Manas in Sanskrit, generally this is what is thought of being 'The Mind', from whence the thoughts arise and dissipate). Think of it like a movie projector.
• identifier (called Ahamkara in Sanskrit, this is the Ego). 
• memory and impression storage (This is called Chitta in Sanskrit, and is the storehouse of impressions (emotions and feelings) and memories)
• intellect (This is called Buddhi in Sanskrit, and is responsible for the intellectual faculties -- ability to analyze, conceptualize, etc etc). 

 

They work for You, ‘the boss’ who is the owner of said faculties. The one who is superimposed upon identities such as, “ I am so and so”, “I am a man” or “I am a person of x,y,z profession”. The “I am” is the closest we can get to pointing to our “real” identity.

 

Usually, this is not understood or apparent — and people suffer their minds (out of control functioning of one or all of the four parts of the mind). That’s why it’s a problem.  

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by dwai
added a bit more context

[forestofemptiness]

It depends on the point of view. In some traditions, it does appear that thought is an enemy because it obscures or covers up the truth. In Samkhya for example, stilling the mind may be considered to be quite important. In other traditions, the issue is not the thought, but the confusion and attachment that attends thought. One seldom becomes fixated on the digestion, but we often become fixated on our thoughts. 

 

21 hours ago, dmattwads said:

 

It's definitely a problem when the monkey is suffering. 🐒😥

 

I think that is the case from for Bon Dzogchen teaching, but not necessarily all Dzogchen nor all Mahamudra or non-Tibetan traditions. Not to nit-pick, but if people are receiving differing instructions, it may be important to know so they do not try conflicting directions. 

 

21 hours ago, steve said:

 

 

There is a period of time during which we do practice to get rid of thought.

It's a transient phase during which we attempt to identify the basis of thought and emotion, its essence.