new verses of the DDJ

[Jeff]

Yep. I know I'm being a pain here but I felt it was necessary in order to maintain the order in which it is presented in the TTC. I do understand their POV, it is just that I don't agree with it, which, in essence, means nothing.

 

Yes, One is the first order of Manifestation. And yes, of course, Tao fucntions within One. This is because One is an aspect of Tao.

 

Thanks. Also, I would agree with you, but my perspective may be jaded a little by some Buddhist leanings...

[Marblehead]

... but my perspective may be jaded a little by some Buddhist leanings...

Really? I never wooda' knowed.

[Silent Answers]

FH said - (from 84)

 

"A great tree stretches its limbs towards the Heavens.

Men should be like trees.

A great tree draws its goodness from the Earth and from the Heavens.

Men should be like trees."

 

Almost. The trick is, they don't just draw in, they give back.

[flowing hands]

 

Almost. The trick is, they don't just draw in, they give back.

Li Erh is talking about something else here, a little more elusive!

[flowing hands]

The One..........

 

I think I once explained what was taught to me by the Immortal Masters many years ago about the beginning of all things?

 

Well if I didn't then here it is.

 

At the very beginning, and this is the One, there came a small vibration within the darkness. Now if it is possible to imagine, something so thin, anti matter, so to speak, billions of years ago. The vibration is the One that Li Erh is describing. As this vibration became stronger over the millions of years, heat was produced. With heat came pressure. So its like blowing up a car inner tube, but the inner tube won't expand, put enough air in it and it will explode, bang! When the first vibration happened so Dao was created, for as soon as there was something from nothing and I mean nothing then the order of all things started. Anti matter became matter, a vast expansion and contraction. One might say where did all these elements that make up all that we know come from? Good question I say and a difficult one to get ones head around.

[Silent Answers]

Li Erh is talking about something else here, a little more elusive!

Or perhaps I was being double elusive...

[Marblehead]

The One..........

 

I think I once explained what was taught to me by the Immortal Masters many years ago about the beginning of all things?

 

Well if I didn't then here it is.

 

 

Excellent job, of course.

 

Man follows Earth,

Earth follows Heaven,

Heaven follows Tao,

Tao follows Tzujan.

 

The One you are speaking to would be Tzujan in my understanding.

[Brian]

The One..........

 

I think I once explained what was taught to me by the Immortal Masters many years ago about the beginning of all things?

 

Well if I didn't then here it is.

 

At the very beginning, and this is the One, there came a small vibration within the darkness. Now if it is possible to imagine, something so thin, anti matter, so to speak, billions of years ago. The vibration is the One that Li Erh is describing. As this vibration became stronger over the millions of years, heat was produced. With heat came pressure. So its like blowing up a car inner tube, but the inner tube won't expand, put enough air in it and it will explode, bang! When the first vibration happened so Dao was created, for as soon as there was something from nothing and I mean nothing then the order of all things started. Anti matter became matter, a vast expansion and contraction. One might say where did all these elements that make up all that we know come from? Good question I say and a difficult one to get ones head around.

Thank you, flowing hands.

 

Physics does a pretty good job with the ten thousand things (the "where did all these elements...come from" question) but the One is outside of the scope of modern science.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I probably would not be over here if I hadn't noticed that 'manitou' was posting here, some of the insightful points which she has raised such as:

. . . the Dao is a template. . . . The blueprint for all of life, . . .
Funny how the Dao was implemented for the purpose of reversion, back to the One. (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

as well as the metaphysical perplexity manifest in such statements as:

Hi MH, In my original understanding of the meaning of the "Tao" I would agree with you. Sort of like the Tao is the same as "emptiness" in the the Buddhist sense. But, here SFH and Dawei are describing the Tao more as the "natural flow/order" in the One (manifest existence). Interesting concept and way of thinking about it that was new to me...

and

Yep. I know I'm being a pain here but I felt it was necessary in order to maintain the order in which it is presented in the TTC. I do understand their POV, it is just that I don't agree with it, which, in essence, means nothing.


Yes, One is the first order of Manifestation. And yes, of course, Tao fucntions within One. This is because One is an aspect of Tao.

and

Thanks. Also, I would agree with you, but my perspective may be jaded a little by some Buddhist leanings...

Might find some non-jaded illumination in the Plotinian exposition of Platonism and in particular this work:

Nature, Contemplation and the One by John Deck on Amazon.com

I take the liberty of quoting the second review on Amazon.com:

John Deck's purported aim in this book is to provide an explanation of Plotinus' claim in Ennead III.8 that "Nature contemplates". Plotinus himself is aware that this doctrine, that trees, and even rocks, contemplate, will seem strange to his contemporaries. If it seemed strange to Plotinus' contemporaries, it probably seems even stranger to a modern ear. Platonism was the dominant world-view when Plotinus was writing, or at least one of them, while today, the dominant world-view tends to be some version of materialist-atomism. John Deck's goal is to make Plotinus' claim that "nature contemplates" sound plausible, as a metaphysical description of the actual world we live in, to a modern ear. I think this is a worthy goal.

Philosophical interpreters generally follow one of two paths (most follow some combination of the two), 1) They present the doctrines of a given philosopher in terms of that philosopher's own historical context, or, 2) They attempt to present the ideas of a given philosopher as contemporary and relevant. I tend to prefer books that choose the latter course. I believe that a great deal of what Plotinus had to say is still relevant, I think Plotinus' brand of Platonism is still a viable philosophical position, even in the face of developments in modern science. So I am totally on board with John Deck's stated aim.

John Deck points out, that in order to make sense of the claim that "nature contemplates" it is really necessary to provide an analysis of Plotinus' entire philosophy. That is why this book serves as a good general introduction to Plotinus' thought, even if the problem of "nature's contemplation" is not the aspect of Plotinus' philosophy that the reader is most interested in. John Deck presents a broad overview of Plotinus' philosophy, beginning with the One, then Nous, and the Soul, and finally matter. I thought his analysis of Plotinus' understanding of matter was particularly good. John Deck also, correctly in my opinion, critiques the two-world interpretation of Plotinus (and by extension, Platonism in general). The world of Nous is not another "higher world", it is our everyday world as it is in truth (which means: as it is to intellect).

Plotinus' views in general can seem quite strange to a modern ear. We are not used to thinking of the world in terms of "hypostases" of the One, Nous, Soul, and Nature. In order to make these views seem plausible it is necessary to "demythologize" them to some degree. Plotinus is very good at doing this in his own works. He is always ready to remind us, for example, that when he talks about a "procession of the hypostases" he is not talking about an actual temporal process, he is merely expressing the order of ontological dependence. John Deck does a pretty good job interpreting the "ontological meaning" of Plotinus' doctrines, moving us past our tendency for "picture thinking". I think Plotinus' views often seem strange because we have not left behind picture thinking. We are still imagining them, rather then thinking them through in their ontological/metaphysical meaning.

All in all, I think this is a pretty good introduction to Plotinus' philosophy as a whole. I am not sure that John Deck is entirely successful in making the "nature contemplates" doctrine seem plausible to the modern reader (which does not mean I think it is wrong, I just think more work would have to be done to "translate" the doctrine into modern terms). But I think John Deck's book is a good choice if you are looking for a general introduction to Plotinus. (Amazon.com, second review, Emphasis mine, ZYD)

Take the title of the book and read Nature as Dao, remember that 'con-template' means 'together with the pattern' and realize that the Plotinian One is the source of all, whose radical simplicity as the only true 'One', makes it the 'empty' source of all and you have something interesting to think about, maybe even to contemplate.

[dawei]

The One..........

 

I think I once explained what was taught to me by the Immortal Masters many years ago about the beginning of all things?

 

Well if I didn't then here it is.

 

At the very beginning, and this is the One, there came a small vibration within the darkness. Now if it is possible to imagine, something so thin, anti matter, so to speak, billions of years ago. The vibration is the One that Li Erh is describing. As this vibration became stronger over the millions of years, heat was produced. With heat came pressure. So its like blowing up a car inner tube, but the inner tube won't expand, put enough air in it and it will explode, bang! When the first vibration happened so Dao was created, for as soon as there was something from nothing and I mean nothing then the order of all things started. Anti matter became matter, a vast expansion and contraction. One might say where did all these elements that make up all that we know come from? Good question I say and a difficult one to get ones head around.

 

Yes, you described this in another topic on DDJ Themes... you mentioned this as the 'female principle'.

 

I most often hear people try to connect DDJ chapter 42 cosmology sequence to originating with the Book of Change (Yi Ching), but I don't agree. I did find a text which describes stage sequences more in line like you share. I wrote my idea here:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32324-cosmology-in-ancient-chinese-text/?p=489970

[manitou]

From ZYD's post:

 

 

John Deck's purported aim in this book is to provide an explanation of Plotinus' claim in Ennead III.8 that "Nature contemplates". Plotinus himself is aware that this doctrine, that trees, and even rocks, contemplate, will seem strange to his contemporaries. .............. John Deck's goal is to make Plotinus' claim that "nature contemplates" sound plausible, as a metaphysical description of the actual world we live in, to a modern ear. I think this is a worthy goal.

 

 

It's interesting that don Juan Mateus told Carlos Castaneda that nature's job was to give, and it only cared that we came to visit once in a while.

[flowing hands]

Verse 92

Edited November 16, 2014 by flowing hands

[flowing hands]

I probably would not be over here if I hadn't noticed that 'manitou' was posting here, some of the insightful points which she has raised such as:

 

 

as well as the metaphysical perplexity manifest in such statements as:

 

 

and

 

 

and

 

 

Might find some non-jaded illumination in the Plotinian exposition of Platonism and in particular this work:

 

Nature, Contemplation and the One by John Deck on Amazon.com

 

I take the liberty of quoting the second review on Amazon.com:

 

 

Take the title of the book and read Nature as Dao, remember that 'con-template' means 'together with the pattern' and realize that the Plotinian One is the source of all, whose radical simplicity as the only true 'One', makes it the 'empty' source of all and you have something interesting to think about, maybe even to contemplate.

Why not? Just because you didn't agree with me about 'Jesus in his heart' doesn't mean anything to me in the slightest. You are welcome to comment on what I have written here as anybody else is, otherwise I wouldn't put it on here!

[Marblehead]

Why not? Just because you didn't agree with me about 'Jesus in his heart' doesn't mean anything to me in the slightest. You are welcome to comment on what I have written here as anybody else is, otherwise I wouldn't put it on here!

Hehehe. Well, never fear, I am one you can count on to make comment.

 

However, I have always and will continue to remain removed from numerology. There are some here who can entertain you and this last chapter though.

[flowing hands]

Hehehe. Well, never fear, I am one you can count on to make comment.

 

However, I have always and will continue to remain removed from numerology. There are some here who can entertain you and this last chapter though.

Does this mean you can't count!!!! I'm sure they taught you in the army?

[dawei]

Verse 92

 

 

Nine is a sacred number and so are the multiples of nine.

 

One is one, the Dao is two, so all things multiply by three. These great powers of the universe multiplied by themselves come to nine. So three is a sacred number as well as nine.

 

Eighty one is a sacred number for nine times itself is eighty one.

 

Following the sacred numbers, the pattern of life is set out.

 

The shaman dances eighty one steps to heal the sick, the warrior uses the nine ringed sword to carry out his business. Eighty one pages make a sacred spiritual teaching. The ancients were very careful not to expound any further than this. They talked about the Dao in nine teachings.

 

So we have the nine teachings of Daoism.

 

Yes, nine holds lots of meaning. The sound, Jiu, is same as ever-lasting (Jiu)... Also the Ba Guo (Eight Diagrams) surrounds the nine area of the divine center.

 

Yu the Great separated the nine streams and created nine cauldrons to represent the nine districts he created.

 

Shennong had nine wells spring up around him at birth.

 

The Jiulong mountains contain nine ranges (Dragons).

 

Then there are the nine dragons.

 

In the Scripture of the Nine Elixirs, the Mysterious Woman of the Nine Heavens taught the Yellow Emperor to compound and ingest the elixirs and become a divine immortal.

 

----

 

 

What are the nine teachings of Daoism?

[Marblehead]

Does this mean you can't count!!!! I'm sure they taught you in the army?

Hehehe. Good response. Yes, I can count. I know that a 20 dollar bill is better than a 1 dollar bill. I have never seen a nine dollar bill though.

[flowing hands]

 

Yes, nine holds lots of meaning. The sound, Jiu, is same as ever-lasting (Jiu)... Also the Ba Guo (Eight Diagrams) surrounds the nine area of the divine center.

 

Yu the Great separated the nine streams and created nine cauldrons to represent the nine districts he created.

 

Shennong had nine wells spring up around him at birth.

 

The Jiulong mountains contain nine ranges (Dragons).

 

Then there are the nine dragons.

 

In the Scripture of the Nine Elixirs, the Mysterious Woman of the Nine Heavens taught the Yellow Emperor to compound and ingest the elixirs and become a divine immortal.

 

----

 

 

What are the nine teachings of Daoism?

I will come to that in time.

[Marblehead]

I will come to that in time.

Yes, please take your time. I have the rest of my life to get all this straight.

[dawei]

I researched the most ancient reference to nine that I could find... The oracle bones mention the 'nine Wu' , nine shamans of the ritual dance... the nine dogs sacrificed... It would seem this is for the nine districts of Yu.

 

So the importance of 'nine' is not just a semi-modern idea...

 

It does make sense that the root is 3: A tripod. In neolithic times, the favored clay pot was a tripod. A family is three.

 

These are all but physical ideas... If one considers "3", there is Heaven, Earth, Man. And the three dan tians... they are a spiritual microcosm idea...

[Stosh]

A competing numerical scheme which should be considered as an alternative to the number nine as the natural fundemental relationship of growth ( but Ill admit 9 is easier to remember) Fibonacci Sequence

The Fibonacci Sequence is the series of numbers:

0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34.....

[Marblehead]

What about "69"?

[dawei]

What about "69"?

 

That is the symbol of the spirit... pure interweaving of Yin and Yang...

[dawei]

That is the symbol of the spirit... pure interweaving of Yin and Yang...

 

Here you go... Shen

 

 

 

Earlier character:

 

[Stosh]

Wow, arabic and chinese numbers look the same? and here I thought 69 was just a misalignment of Q .