WingChunTaoBum

Which internal art should I practice

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I have been studying various martial arts now, manly Wing Chun. And I am looking for an internal art to straighten my outer, if any one has an art that I should try I would appreciate your suggestion.

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Yi Quan or its Japanese version, Taikiken

Thanks I'll check it out, is it the qigong the shaolin monks use, or is it only japanese?

Edited by WingChunTaoBum

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Thanks I'll check it out, is it the qigong the shaolin monks use, or is it only japanese?

 

It has no relation to Shaolin. It is orginally developed in 20th century in China by legendary Wang Xiangzhai. A Japanese student of Wang Xiangzhai, Kenichi Sawai developed the Japanese version of the art and called it as Taikiken.

 

General Information

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiquan

 

Yi Quan

http://www.yiquan.info/

http://www.yiquannet.com/en/Index.asp

 

Taikiken

http://www.taikiken.org/

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Find a good teacher, and learn what he/she has to teach you. This is if you're interested in learning and not just saying 'I practice such-and-such'. If you're interested in an art that's unavailable in your area, or taught by a sub-par teacher, you can always learn it later, or practice on your own.

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Hmmmmm.... Bagua of course! :)

 

Actually I would agree that the teacher and lineage/teachings they had are more important than the very specific art you choose. Find someone you resonate well with and teaches the sort of things you wish to get out of your practice.

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Two things I've found. The teacher is more important then the art. So look at all internal arts in your area, don't prejudice yourself against any. Talk to the teacher, see if you can attend a class for free. Talk to the students, how level headed are they, do they seem mature and evolved?

 

Mundane thing like location is important too. A good teacher 4 blocks away can be way better then a great one 40 miles away or a master in the next state. Visiting greats in seminars is good, but a steady teacher who gives feed back is going to give you strong fundamentals. And fundamentals ultimately mean everything.

Edited by thelerner
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I like MCO the best:

 

microcosmic-orbit-meditation.gif

 

I like it because it can be used as a no-nonsense approach. Great for seeker mentality imo.



Orbit_centres_detail.jpg



Even before that, it might be good to start with Vipassana meditation or Mindfullness meditation.

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There are various styles of internal work. Find the one that most resonates with you and then go with it.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

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Wing Chun is an internal art if you find the right teacher. Look for Chu Shong Tin lineage. Most people just teach external Wing Chun, which by itself is still brutally effective however if you add the internals and get good at it then you'll be able to crush almost any normal person. I know plenty of people who can throw the biggest guys around like rag dolls.

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I have respect to everybody's opinions although there are ones I disagree 100%.

 

The advantage of Yi Quan for you, is the extensive practice of Zhang Zhuang as the foundation of the art for new comers. The emphasize on Zhang Zhuang makes Yi Quan as the first choice as it helps to gain and preserve health and also starts to develop inner power.

Edited by Isimsiz Biri
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Wing Chun is an internal art if you find the right teacher. Look for Chu Shong Tin lineage. Most people just teach external Wing Chun, which by itself is still brutally effective however if you add the internals and get good at it then you'll be able to crush almost any normal person. I know plenty of people who can throw the biggest guys around like rag dolls.

 

Very interesting... could you elaborate on the internal aspects of WC (or Chu Shong Tin's lineage)? Or post a link?

 

Thanks :)

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A friend of mine trained and taught Baguazhang for over 40 years. Then he found a really awesome Wing Tsun teacher and switched over to that. He sees the two as extremely similar and having the same principals. All of the classes I took with my friend had the same practices I am used to with Bagua, accept the circle walking of course. So I think that as said above, it is just about finding the right teacher with the right focus.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Tsun

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I am just another pilgrim so I can't say what might lie beyond the next ridge. What thelerner said about locality rings true to me because the work has to fit in with the rest of one's obligations. Whatever you choose to do, do it all the time.

 

It helps/has been helping me to push hands with many different people. When I see/feel what other people can do, it gets to be less about charting a path of training and more about seeking what others have found that I cannot do yet. Those things could be inside of what I am working on already or not. Or both.

 

I appreciate all the help I get.

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XingYiQuan

if you are the type who goes forward as well they use

the vertical punch and much similar side Stance but the produce

of the force is unlike Wing Chun in stepping is like chaining,

causing a press in reducing resistance and then unleashing the force.

 

It appears to me like a double falling step causing

depending on the stepping either produce only one Zheng Jiao(stomping sound)

or two Zheng Jiao.

Able to perform Zheng Jiao in the half step makes one

able to produce force in short distance which either

is an attack or can use the force of the contrahents impact

to charge the actual fist if one distruped halfway

when the contrahent attack was faster.

 

The standing of Santi is used to remove all

direction so it appears all side seem the same.

As well the sort how it punch the 5 Elemental Fist

is internal strengthening the the Zhang Fu Organs but,

bad doing may result in health problem in them.

This is only crude what I say since a full system

depending also who teaches it has speciality and understanding.

 

When you are interested in BaguaZhang then you like to read Tom Bisio Books.

 

Yiquan is as I see use spheres in the Zhang Zhuang which is good for body allignment -

again it appears to me standing Santi is better with Wing Chuns Cone

where all hands are formed by rotation by a Tan Sau, putting together forming the cone.

Else why not learn from the Masters to stand in their Arts Forms

like Wang Xiangzhai in Yiquan and Xinyiquan or in Tai Chi great Yang Lu Chan?

 

Else Bearded Dragon say it correctly that Wing Chun itself is seen as Internal Art.

It is to find someone who put more weight in the internal aspect.

In Wing Chun itself you also have different Styles, there are not only Yip Man and Leung Ting.

 

It is more to ask :"Do you know some good teacher who emphasize the Internal Aspect in Wing Chun?"

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Very interesting... could you elaborate on the internal aspects of WC (or Chu Shong Tin's lineage)? Or post a link?

 

Thanks :)

 

It's more simplified in terms of learning it, but I think at a high level it becomes all the same. The basic idea is just to raise energy up your spine and allow it to come back down by itself. There is no MCO per se as you just raise up and relax down everywhere. You try to do this all the time. There is a lot of work with body alignments, correct joint rotations, relaxation, expansion, and especially with the mind and how you think about things. You do the form a particular way not because that is the right way, but because it is the best way to achieve a state in your body. Once you have the state you can do things however you want.

 

You quickly learn that even adding a bit of raising your spine can also help if you're doing things quite physically. So in that sense there is no internal or external but a continuum. Everyone in our lineage has a slightly different take on it. Some do more standing practice, some do more drills, some like to take things from a practical approach. All follow the principles though. You'll find that Yip Man taught each student a bit differently. That continues today.

 

If you want to see the internals just PM me. There is a video that I don't particularly want to post.

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Find a good teacher, and learn what he/she has to teach you. This is if you're interested in learning and not just saying 'I practice such-and-such'. If you're interested in an art that's unavailable in your area, or taught by a sub-par teacher, you can always learn it later, or practice on your own.

Yeah your right it is better to have a teacher that's close to you, but as of now I do not have any close to me, so I'm just looking for easy to practice until I find a master, but thanks!

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It's more simplified in terms of learning it, but I think at a high level it becomes all the same. The basic idea is just to raise energy up your spine and allow it to come back down by itself. There is no MCO per se as you just raise up and relax down everywhere. You try to do this all the time. There is a lot of work with body alignments, correct joint rotations, relaxation, expansion, and especially with the mind and how you think about things. You do the form a particular way not because that is the right way, but because it is the best way to achieve a state in your body. Once you have the state you can do things however you want.

 

You quickly learn that even adding a bit of raising your spine can also help if you're doing things quite physically. So in that sense there is no internal or external but a continuum. Everyone in our lineage has a slightly different take on it. Some do more standing practice, some do more drills, some like to take things from a practical approach. All follow the principles though. You'll find that Yip Man taught each student a bit differently. That continues today.

 

If you want to see the internals just PM me. There is a video that I don't particularly want to post.

Yeah your right Ip man taught his students to focus a little more on leg flexibility, even though legs aren't used that much in Wing Chun, but I haven't fully started learning the internal part of Wing Chun, but here is a demonstration of it by a master..

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Find a good teacher, and learn what he/she has to teach you. This is if you're interested in learning and not just saying 'I practice such-and-such'. If you're interested in an art that's unavailable in your area, or taught by a sub-par teacher, you can always learn it later, or practice on your own.

Yeah, I'm practicing on my own for now

 

I like MCO the best:

 

microcosmic-orbit-meditation.gif

 

I like it because it can be used as a no-nonsense approach. Great for seeker mentality imo.

 

Orbit_centres_detail.jpg

 

Even before that, it might be good to start with Vipassana meditation or Mindfullness meditation.

That looks pretty good. How long have you been doing it?

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Yeah your right Ip man taught his students to focus a little more on leg flexibility, even though legs aren't used that much in Wing Chun, but I haven't fully started learning the internal part of Wing Chun, but here is a demonstration of it by a master..

 

It's more simplified in terms of learning it, but I think at a high level it becomes all the same. The basic idea is just to raise energy up your spine and allow it to come back down by itself. There is no MCO per se as you just raise up and relax down everywhere. You try to do this all the time. There is a lot of work with body alignments, correct joint rotations, relaxation, expansion, and especially with the mind and how you think about things. You do the form a particular way not because that is the right way, but because it is the best way to achieve a state in your body. Once you have the state you can do things however you want.

 

You quickly learn that even adding a bit of raising your spine can also help if you're doing things quite physically. So in that sense there is no internal or external but a continuum. Everyone in our lineage has a slightly different take on it. Some do more standing practice, some do more drills, some like to take things from a practical approach. All follow the principles though. You'll find that Yip Man taught each student a bit differently. That continues today.

 

If you want to see the internals just PM me. There is a video that I don't particularly want to post.

 

It's more simplified in terms of learning it, but I think at a high level it becomes all the same. The basic idea is just to raise energy up your spine and allow it to come back down by itself. There is no MCO per se as you just raise up and relax down everywhere. You try to do this all the time. There is a lot of work with body alignments, correct joint rotations, relaxation, expansion, and especially with the mind and how you think about things. You do the form a particular way not because that is the right way, but because it is the best way to achieve a state in your body. Once you have the state you can do things however you want.

 

You quickly learn that even adding a bit of raising your spine can also help if you're doing things quite physically. So in that sense there is no internal or external but a continuum. Everyone in our lineage has a slightly different take on it. Some do more standing practice, some do more drills, some like to take things from a practical approach. All follow the principles though. You'll find that Yip Man taught each student a bit differently. That continues today.

 

If you want to see the internals just PM me. There is a video that I don't particularly want to post.

Oh! I'm sorry I thought you quoted me. ;)

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Yeah your right Ip man taught his students to focus a little more on leg flexibility, even though legs aren't used that much in Wing Chun, but I haven't fully started learning the internal part of Wing Chun, but here is a demonstration of it by a master..

 

That's Albert Chong. We've had him teach us a few times at weekend seminars. He's ridiculously good. One of the top guys in Australia. He wouldn't call himself a master but I think he's too modest. The most senior guys have all left Jim Fung's school but they are still around, and all would obliterate most people in a fight. You really have to feel the force. It's like muscular force you might not be able to stop but you can feel that if you were stronger you'd be able to. The force that these guys have feels like there is very little there, and as such you have no ability to fight against it because there is no platform to do so.

 

That would be how I would describe the internal and external thing. External is like pushing against a wall. Internal at the highest level is like pushing against air. I was doing chi sau with someone in Hong Kong and her arms felt like they weren't there, and her force was like these 2 spirals of emptiness coming out of her arms and rotating in alternate directions. As such the effect on my body was that the top of my body was buckling one way and the bottom was buckling another way, and there was nothing that I could do about it. She was hardly moving at all.

 

Bizarre stuff :).

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I agree that Wing Chun has an internal side.

 

But if you want to see see the internal force, it is Fa Jin. (fā jìn, 發勁)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa_jin

Fa jin, fajin, or fa chin (fā jìn, 發勁) is a term used in some Chinese martial arts, particularly the neijia (internal) martial arts, such as Xingyiquan, T'ai chi ch'uan (Taijiquan), Baguazhang andBak Mei but also made famous by the Sao Lim Hood Kar Pai branch practiced by the late masters Abbot Sek Kho Sum and Dato P'ng Chye Kim.

It means to issue or discharge power explosively or refining the explosive power, and is not specific to any particular striking method. Jìn (勁), or "power", is often confused by Westerners with the related concept of jīng (精), which literally means "essence."

 

To everyone related with internal martial arts, I strongly recommend Jarek Szymanski's web site

http://www.chinafrominside.com/

 

Especially, one interview is very very important.

Interview with Mr. Ma Chuanxu, Liang Style Baguazhang Expert from Beijing and president of The Beijing Baguazhang Research Association

 

One can grasp the true meaning of baguazhang and internal martial arts by reading this monumental interview.

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Sorry may be this is wrong topic, but I hears about BaDuanJin (Ba Duang Chin may be) - is it only for health or these exercises are also for growing fight ability, fight stength in your body?

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Sorry may be this is wrong topic, but I hears about BaDuanJin (Ba Duang Chin may be) - is it only for health or these exercises are also for growing fight ability, fight stength in your body?

 

Either, depending on the intensity of practice. Some Xing Yi schools use the BDJ exercises.

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